Slashdot Mirror


Mine The Moon For Helium-3

Rob Kennedy writes "A story at The Daily Cardinal is reporting that UW-Madison researchers are looking to mine the moon for helium-3 as an energy source, which supposedly would yield about 1000 times more energy per pound than coal. Although there are several hurdles that would need to be cleared, The Associated Press mentions one catch in particular: 'The researchers still are working on building a helium-3 reactor that would produce more energy than it takes in.' Indeed. SciScoop has a more in-depth discussion of the prospect."

11 of 644 comments (clear)

  1. Associated Press by 77Punker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Put out more energy than it takes in? Once again, never trust the AP for science.

    1. Re:Associated Press by Carnildo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Put out more energy than it takes in? Once again, never trust the AP for science.

      Actually, that's a serious problem. No one has yet built a fusion reactor that, for sustained periods, produces more energy than it takes to keep running.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
    2. Re:Associated Press by dekashizl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Put out more energy than it takes in? Once again, never trust the AP for science.

      Not sure if you were attempting humor or just being pedantic. Nobody's claiming to create a perpetual motion machine on the moon. I think we all know what they meant by that statement (i.e. not including energy stored in the Helium itself, which is presumably somewhat abundant), and it gets to the heart of the problem.

  2. Is there REALLY anything wrong with Fission power? by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I mean come on. We can't even get one watt of positive energy flow out of Fusion and they already want to mine the moon for it. Let's spend our time developing better fission reactors, including ones for space engines. Then we can use them to get our scientists to the moon so they can play with Helium-3 and Fusion all they want.

  3. Why? by El · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "helium-3... would yield about 1000 times more energy per pound than coal. And cost about 10,000 times more per pound to mine... doesn't sound like a big economic win to me.

    --

    "Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney

  4. Thousands of years? by Rostin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They don't even have a reactor yet that produces net power, and they are estimating that the moon has enough helium to supply the earth with energy for a thousand years? What could they possibly be basing this estimate on.

    "Gee Bob, some journalist wants to know how much energy is on the moon. Should I assume that the reactor we may or may not be able to come up with will be 99% efficient or 5% efficient?"

    "I'd go with 99%. We're running low on grant money."

  5. Re:Is there REALLY anything wrong with Fission pow by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apparently no one knows how to build a nuke reactor safely enough for the insurance companies.

    Considering that there have been zero civilian deaths from nuclear power use in the US, and that thousands die every years from diseases brought about by coal-burning, I have to wonder what type of design they want. Perhaps a nuclear power plant that produces power but doesn't actually have a reactor?

  6. Re:Is there REALLY anything wrong with Fission pow by Ryan+Amos · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah, but all it would take is one meltdown and we suddenly have a disaster a few orders of magnitude larger than 9/11. That would bankrupt an insurance company instantly. It's not that the insurance companies are saying fission reactors are unsafe, just that if something went catastrophically wrong, they would be doomed. I don't think any company out there could survive a hit of $25 billion to their bottom line, which is probably a conservative figure for a large-scale (say, Chernobyl or worse) nuclear disaster.

  7. you are barin-washed by US govt by axxackall · · Score: 4, Insightful
    In the case of Chernobyl, the Russian government stole a US design, built a reactor, and assigned engineers who didn't understand how it worked.

    I spoke in person with engineers and nuclear physists who worked with Academic Alexandroff, who was a project leader to design Leningrad reactor which design has been used later in Chernobyl. Those guys know how it works. Moreover, Soviet nuclear phisists, who designed first Soviet nuclear bomb (Kurchatov and others) new exactly how nuclear physics works.

    It was US engineers who learned from German physists. Saying that Soviet Nuclear engineers do not understand how the reactor works is the sign that you watch way too much TV and read way to many tabloids. Your brains are washed by US propaganda.

    Coming back to Chernobyl, the Leningrad reactor was innovative in many ideas to reduce the cost of protection. That created an illusion that it's absolutely safe. It is safe, but not absolutely, just more safe than other reactors of that time. When its design has been re-applied in Chernobyl, they made more shortcuts on safity, thinking that it's safe anyway. Not only design shortcuts, but also in the technological process of the construction as well as n in organization of its support (like shift and like that). We all know the result.

    --

    Less is more !
  8. Re:In other news by Sylver+Dragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Probably not at first, but once production scales up, we might be able to. Keep in mind that getting off the moon is no where near as difficult as getting off the Earth. And once you get part of the way back (don't recall exact distance offhand, something like a 1/3 of the way, I think), gravity will do the rest. Then, just make sure that your shipping containers have a good heat shield and parachute system, and we can bring the tanks in like we did the Apollo Crews. Might even be worth while to set up a landing zone, on dry land, and just make the containers more impact resistant. The containers themselves would probably have to be some sort of concrete, made from lunar dust, so that part might be hard, but I'm sure we can figure something out.

    --
    Necessity is the mother of invention.
    Laziness is the father.
  9. In my opinion, yes, there is... by Tailhook · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In the past I believed that public resistance to power reactors was founded in ignorance, and therefore without merit. It is, but some knee-jerk reactions are healthy.

    Last Friday the Tennessee reactor called WATTS BAR was SCRAM-ed. A SCRAM is an emergency procedure where the core's control rods are rapidly inserted to halt the reaction. SCRAMs are routine. Reactors SCRAM themselves and are manually SCRAM-ed under a large number of conditions.

    Here is a quote from the WATTS BAR report to the NRC on this "event"; "The licensee also reported that all control rods inserted on the reactor trip, no primary or secondary system relief valves operated, and that reactor temperature is being maintained using steam dump to the condenser. Steam generator water levels are being maintained using auxiliary feedwater. The station electrical system is available and in a normal configuration. All ECCS equipment is available. The reactor is currently stable at 2230 psig, 559 degrees Fahrenheit."

    Something about having to report the condition of control rods and water levels directly to the Federal Government makes me doubt exactly how safe this stuff actually is. That paragraph follows a template that varies based primarily on which parts of the back-up systems fail post SCRAM, and this is an unusual report in that none did.

    Machine's break, people mess up, things get neglected, overlooked and forgotten. The consequences at a coal or gas power generating facility are localized deaths and equipment damage. The consequences at a fission reactor range from trivial to catastrophic, in a biblical sense. We have never suffered the worst case. Chernobyl did not even begin to approach it.

    Also, last Friday, the DAVIS BESSE facility in Ohio reported that, according to their simulations, a steam line break could potentially compromise all low-voltage systems and battery backups available at the reactor by overpressuring some doors. That's a useful discovery. Too bad it took 27 years to notice. It probably isn't coincidental that this particlar facility is being scrutinized with a microscope and thus rendering interesting new discoveries like this. Two years ago refueling workers discovered that boric acid had eaten through the steam generator casing down to the stainless steel inner lining. 8" of low alloy steel gone and all of the pressure generated by the nuclear reaction retained by a 3/8" layer of stainless steel.

    I have no animus towards the power companies. I am not an activist exaggerating to support an agenda. Paranoia about nuclear waste is nothing more than trumped up NIMBY. "Deregulation" isn't causing a degradation of safety. It's just the nature of any large industrial system; everything breaks eventually. Hell, everything is already broken and we have simply failed to notice, yet.

    I now believe that fission reactors are inherently dangerous, including recent improved designs. It is the nature of a fission reactor to melt down unless prevented from doing so. We are very good at preventing this. We are not, however, perfect. We are people operating machines.

    In contrast, fusion appears much safer. The challenge of fusion is getting more power out of the reaction than you put in. By definition the reaction will stop if the input fails. It is the nature of a fusion reactor to stop unless prevented from doing so. Unless some foul-up closes the loop it can't spiral out-of-control.

    --
    Maw! Fire up the karma burner!