Fighting for Your Overtime?

Papa Legba asks: "I am in a battle, with a now ex-employer, over the unpaid overtime that I incurred while working in their IT department. I refused to accept the answer 'you are a computer guy, you don't get overtime' and did some looking. My research has turned up these relevant documents: the definition of exempt Computer professional at section 13(a)(17) of the FLSA managed by the Department of Labor, the amendments in the ESA labeled C.F.R.541.3(a)(4) and C.F.R.541.303 , and a site referring to a letter, which I cannot find a copy of. The letter describes a Dept. of Labor ruling from December 4, 1998 that set out who qualifies as a computer professional. Can anyone find this letter, and is there any more documents that I am missing. I have a lawyer but this is a very specific area and I want to do this right. Has anyone else fought this battle?"

Comments

Calling Captain Obvious...

[I Be Hatin']

...referring to a letter, which I cannot find a copy of. The letter describes a Dept. of Labor ruling...

Have you perchance tried contacting the Dept. of Labor?

I know, way too late now, but...

[Txiasaeia]

... I absolutely refuse to work overtime. No matter what the job, incl. jobs in IT, after eight hours I call it quits. My boss a few years ago asked me to stay for OT and I said I couldn't, end of story. We had a project we were working on that needed to get done (waaaay overschedule, but blame the ambitious marketing dept for that), but honestly, my spare time is *precious* to me, and it can't be replaced with some chump change.

Of course, I make it my personal mission to work as hard as I can while I'm at work so that nobody has an excuse to can me, but I've never been fired, I'm not short on money, and I've got plenty of time to spend with my family, read books, and post on /.

If I *were* to give you some advice, I'd say forget about it until you decide to quit or move on - and just simply stop showing up for work. If they don't give you the decency to pay you OT, then why should you give them the decency of 2 weeks/1 month's notice? If they call up and ask where the hell you are, just say "Oh, mmmm, yeah, about that, I've decided to quit, mmmkay? Did you get the memo?"

What's wrong with occasional overtime?

[scott_davey]

Reading some of these posts I'm amazed at how selfish some people are.

I mean, Slashdot is full of unemployment/job-exporting rants, yet when it comes to helping out their employer in a time of need, the advice seems to be "fuck the boss - I'm going home".

And the same people probably wonder why their jobs are being exported.

Personally, I feel a sense of commitment to the project I work on and the company I work for. If it needs a bit of overtime, I'm happy to provide it. Not excessively, but occasionally.

In fact, it is written into my employment agreement - "occasional overtime may be required from time to time". I get paid in time-in-leiu.

I also get to come in 1 hour later the next day for each hour I work past 9pm, if I need to work back. So if a server catches fire, I will stay back and fix it, and if I work until midnight I don't have to start work again until midday the next day.

I work for a small company, and the way I see it it is in my interest to help that company succeed - if they go broke or lose a big contact because I refused to work overtime, I may lose my job.

My overtime works out to be around 1-2 work-days every month, of which I get days off in return.

Sure, project blowouts can be blamed on other people, but lets be realistic and say that often it is the programmer's lack of estimation ability that causes problems, too.

Whoever is to blame for overtime requirements, the main thing to realise is that you form part of a *team*, and teamwork involves professionalism and responsibility from all members of the team (you, your boss, your project manager and your customer).

For me this means I work occasional overtime when required, and my boss ensures it does not get excessive. I also get rewarded for it with time-in-leui, which helps me, and my boss.

My advice to the original poster - in future, work out your conditions before you agree to work for a company to avoid these problems. And consider time-in-leiu as an alternative to overtime payments.

Re:What's wrong with occasional overtime?

[ibbey]

At first, I thought you were just trolling, but as I read you're comment, I realized you're serious, just being naieve.

You're right, you should be loyal to the company, as long as that loyalty is returned. But when you work overtime for months & years on end without getting paid, where does that loyalty end? The original poster said in a later follow-up that he was owed in the neighborhood of $30,000. Once the company owes you five digits of back pay, all bets are off, it's time to get a lawyer. If they're willing to give you an equivalent amount of comp time, and that is alright with you, then fine (though if you're an hourly worker, comp time is actually illegal in at least some states). But you should feel no obligation to take comp time if you don't want to. And of course, in this case, it's irrelevant: as he stated in the original article, he no longer works for the company. It's hard to take time off from a job that he no longer holds.

Re:What's wrong with occasional overtime?

[scott_davey]

Just to clear things up, I wasn't trolling. I have a valid but alternate point of view.

"Once the company owes you five digits of back pay, all bets are off, it's time to get a lawyer."
If his employment terms were clear regarding working hours and overtime up-front, it would never have reached this point. This situation would have to have existed for a long, long time to accumulate $30,000 of overtime.

If overtime was an agreed entitlement in his job (whether a legal entitlement or a negotiated one), it should have been reconciled much sooner than this. I'm guessing his employer didn't believe it was an entitlement, he did, and it wasn't brought up often. Again, my point on being clear upfront would have prevented the problem in this case.

"if you're an hourly worker, comp time is actually illegal in at least some states"
Maybe, but in my case I work in Australia. I guess the original poster may be US-based, but other slashdot readers are worldwide, and I was being general. Maybe you should be, too.

But you should feel no obligation to take comp time if you don't want to.
Absolutely, but again, it should be pre-negotiated to avoid confusion. It's all about ensuring you and your boss think the same on the matter.

I acknowledge that the original poster had a dud-deal - $30k in dispute is not a good thing - but overtime per-se is not a bad thing, and I believe we should look at partnering with our employers, rather than screwing them over.

Re:What's wrong with occasional overtime?

[tigersha]

Sure, if they partner with us and stop screwing us over!

ha!

[spudwiser]

you and your fancy shmancy degree got you a big ol SALARIED job! work hourly for a company that doesn't straight screw it's employees, never fight for overtime again. hell you might even start to fight overtime!

ok, I think I'm running low on karma so I'll stop being a jerk-shit.

Collapse before Equilibrium

[MacFury]

We have the capacity to make laws to do whatever we want. We could enact a law that completely shuts our borders to imports/exports if we so chose.

Currently, the market favors the employer. They are running a race to the bottom in prices which in the long run, hurts everyone in the US.

If we allow them to screw us out of overtime, it puts more money into their hands and less in ours. This in turn, gives them more money to buy in cheaper labor outside of our country while giving you less to spend locally.

While I agree that America needs a wake up call and that we, in general, have gotten lazy...if this short sighted, ateoo attitude of employers is allowed to continue, we face disasturous economic collapse.

How naive.

[jotaeleemeese]

Former boss of mine, he was working for the same company for the last 10 years and goes into this charade (not disimilar to yours) about overtime and loyality and all the rest.

When after that I explained in no uncertain terms I will not do unpaid overtime, he threatened with, get this, no bonus. Since I don't work for a meagre bonus, I said that was fine with me.

A few weeks later company panics because profits are lower than expected (mind you, they did not loose money, they just made less than what they had expected) and goes in a wild downsizing exercise.

Guess who got the axe? Yea, the loyal employee that would spend any amount of weekends and unsocial hours working and always sung the prises about the company. He was kicked out of the building with a cardboard for his personal belongings escorted by two guards. A vulgar thief would get more deferential treatment. That after 11 years of loyal services.

That is loyalty for you. I will be damned, I am professional and will work to deliver a good service for my employer, but I feel no emotional attachment whatsoever to the company I work for, because the only relationship between my company and my is a business transaction: they pay, I work, we are happy. Fortunately I enjoy what I do thus it is much better than it sounds.