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Mario Monti Fines Microsoft 100 Million?
n3k5 writes "EU competition commissioner Mario Monti has been in the news a lot lately, following "[...] a preliminary decision that Microsoft is breaking European law by abusing its dominant position in the personal computers' market. However, [the Commission] needs to carry out a series of consultations before finalising its verdict, due by May 1." (Financial Times article) The latest articles all cite German magazine FOCUS, which reports in its current issue that, according to "informed" EU sources, the Commission is considering imposing a record fine of EUR 100,000,000 (USD 123,840,000) on Microsoft. "Amelia Torries, a spokeswoman for Monti, dismissed the report as 'pure and utter speculation.'" (Channel NewsAsia article)"
Oh yeah, that's gonna hurt. That's right up there with you or me getting a speeeding ticket for doing 27 in a 25 zone.
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This is just business as usual for Microsoft. Fines are a blip on the bottom line for a particular quarter. The MS war chest is huge, diverting a small percentage of revenue to the chest allows them to pay fines with money they took from you illegally in the first place.
Better idea for the governments: take the money then spend it on promoting open source and non-monopolistic software within your own countries.
Trolling is a art,
What's the incentive for Microsoft to stop their abuse? The abuse nets more money than any fine is likely to take away, and is the quickest way to make $$ back after the fine. This won't solve a darn thing.
The effective solutions (start multiple companies off with the Windows source code and have them compete, for example) are very radical, and I don't know if most of them are in the power of the EU. But if the US government is any example, the will to use them isn't there anyway, so Microsoft can write their check and go back to business as usual.
"I object to doing things that computers can do." -- Olin Shivers, lispers.org
Hang on a minute, it was the U.S itself which brought legal action against Microsoft well before the EU commision began to investigate its business practices. The EU action is simply a continuation of something that the US started nearly a decade ago, so why the bitching and moaning?
And one might also speculate if there is any connections to the latest steel and Galileo-related trade wars.
No, see above. Besides which the EU went straight to WIPO concerning the steel tariffs and they were found totally illegal. The EU has already "retaliated" legally.
Fines that big open them up to criticism from shareholders. You'll see stock prices drop after that fine is levied and that's going to piss a lot of people off. Whether it means any changes for MS down the road is another story.
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It is a rediculous sum that stifles innovation.
Exactly. If you want innovation, you need at least another two zeroes. As long as Microsoft have their desktop OS monopoly, innovation suffers.
The real effect on MS is going to be determined by whether this ends the cycle of lawsuits, or whether it's just another ramping-up of the same.
If it signals an end to them, MS's stock price will likely benefit.
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
I am begging any europeans reading this to make a holy noise about "COUPONS FOR MICROSOFT PRODUCTS WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED IN LIEU OF CASH". It's bad enough that we have Jethro Clampett in the US presidency, in charge of the USDoJ and the people's interest in the MS antitrust issue. Please help make sure the goon's mistakes are not mirrored in the EU! Also, don't accept any namby-pamby payment plans. Get the lump-sum immediately, or seize assets and slap extra fines for delaying payment.
--- Nothing clever here: move along now...
Monti has teeth, and he can be an outright asshole if he wants to - in other words, exactly the right person for this job.
What's 100 mio? Just a show of teeth, not a bite. Almost certainly (as with prior cases), it won't be "pay and continue", it'll be "pay and stop, and if you don't stop, we'll be doubling the fine and ask again, repeating until you do stop."
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Actually, they would, and quite a few times _did_ happen.
You see, some of us still live in "backwards" parts of the world (e.g., Europe), which still cling to old beliefs.
Like: that courts of law are actually there to uphold the law, not to just bend over and grab their ankles if it's a big corporation. The sad mockery of justice that the US did with Microsoft would have not happened in any European country. Again, repeat after me: the role of a court of law is to uphold the law, not to promote the financial interests of big business.
Or like: that the law itself is supposed to serve the people, and not just be a way for politicians to reward their corporate friends.
Now I'm not saying that it's perfect. But it does tend to work. And so far it's never produced such ridiculous clown shows as the Microsoft settlement in the USA.
So rest assured that if your government is there officially just to brown-nose the rich people for campaign donations, other governments and politicians tend to be a lot more subtle about taking bribes.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
If they would do this to an European software company like SAP or Nokia. And one might also speculate if there is any connections to the latest steel and Galileo-related trade wars.
They would and they have. And, all other reasons aside, simply because there is no such thing as a "European company": if SAP or Nokia becomes monopolistic, half a dozen other European nations scream.
I think for Americans to complain that other Western nations have too close ties between domestic companies and government is absurd.
Sadly, we're probably wasting our breath, though. I doubt that some of these people even know where Europe is on a map.
Not saying _everyone_ is like that. Some people actually read stuff, and all... but you'd be surprised how many Americans' idea of European legal precedents is based on Hollywood action movies. And given Hollywood's tradition of treating other countries and cultures like a baby treats a diaper... you can guess what those ideas are like.
E.g., that around here we're all tribesmen, oppressed by some carricature of a corrupt government, and get mob/neo-nazi/whatever wars at every street corner. All while, of course, waiting for a True American Hero (TM) to come in, guns blazing, and restore justice.
Just sad...
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
if it were per day, until they changed their ways. Otherwise its a waste ov everyones time.
It's actually the opposite which should happen. In the US many more lawsuits were filed after the decision by the courts that Microsoft is indeed a monopoly and abused their power. Once that became official it was much easier to sue Microsoft on those grounds. There was no more need to prove in court they're an abusive monopoly as it's already decided. All that's left to prove is you're a victim of that abuse. The same may go in Europe, although of course I'm just speculating based on what's happened in the US.
Developers: We can use your help.
That aside, it would be interesting to know how much revenue Microsoft can attribute to the Italian market in a year. If it's less than a hundred million euros they might consider just suspending business in Italy for a while.
Why Italy? Because Mr Mario is italian?
This is a EU decision, that this particular plumber, i mean minister is italian doesn't mean squat.
Anyway, "suspending business" in a market just to spite someone would be an incredibly stupid move for a software company, one that will never happen outside your fantasies.
The consequence would be an entire continent simultanously deciding to migrate all business critical apps away from MS, because they could no longer be considered a reliable supplier.
Does that sound like something MS would risk over what is, for them, pocket change?
No, they'll try to pay it in monopoly money (software to schools etc.) and if that don't work they'll just bite the bullet, pay in real money and move on.
"First lesson," Jon said. "Stick them with the pointy end."
Assuming that they do fine Microsoft and Microsoft does pay, where will this $100 million go?
Will it just go into the EU's wallet or will it go to promote/help alternative OSs? I think that Microsoft definitely has some retribution in store but I think it's important that countries don't look at Microsoft as a blank check that they can use for their purposes.
The money needs to back to the source (i.e. the alternative OSs that were hurt).
(I couldn't get to the article because of the necessary subscription so this might be addressed there.)
Not everything is analogous to cars. Car analogies rarely work.
There is a limited amount they can actually do since MS is not based here. Most of their options involve syphoning money from them in one form or another. The EU can't do what the US courts should have done in breaking MS up or some other stiffer penalty. The best we can do is hit them with a bill so large it actually makes them feel it or stop them from selling their software in Europe (which isn't going to happen)
Don't blame me - this
I smell a MS software audit for all EU governments.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
WRONG. The local offices are seperate entities and can be sued to oblivion in the country they are registered.
Microsoft CORP maybe in the US but Microsoft Ireland is NOT, Microsoft Sweden is NOT, Microsoft France is NOT.
Plenty of places to hit.
They need to put the people in jail. Find the MS-Euro chiefs who knowningly followed this path of exploitation and lock them up.
A fine against a corporation is just like a tax against a corporation. It is an embedded tax on the consumer. Whether or not many EU people buy MS products they will be paying this "fine". Simply put too many companies and governments use MS products which spreads the cost.
Another alternative would be for the EU to use it as an excuse to move to a linux variant or encourage the schools and other public institutions to do so.
Again, a fine is just a tax, so don't be cheering up that tax you will be paying.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Yes, MS should laugh on EU and take their 40% of global Windows revenue elsewhere.
There you are, staring at me again.
$100m or $1b, it doesn't matter to the EU or Microsoft. The real penalty will be the order to unbundle Media Player and open some server APIs. When all this started, Media Player was a fairly insignificant OS add-on. That's changed. Media Player is now the key part of an MS DRM standard. Without the ability to force media through a universal MS controlled front-end, the whole excercise becomes difficult. Maybe impossible.
Microsoft's strategy was to woo content providers with a de-facto universal DRM scheme based on Windows. By signing up enough providers, MS would be able to end-run hardware makers and force them to adopt MS DRM in turn. This would nicely place MS (and Windows) in the middle of the food-chain. Without near-universal control of the media front-end, MS can't offer seamless protection to the content providers. Even with MS's abysmal security record, a blanket MS controlled regieme is preferable to the record companies et.al. than the current anarchy. Without the content providers on board, MS can't tell the hardware makers "our way or the highway". That means they have to compete with Sony and friends rather than outmaneuver them. And the hardware makers will always support open standards (free as in beer) whenever possible. That's because they've been paying gobs of money for technology licences to Sony and Matsushita for the last 25 years and they're sick of it.
If Monti orders an unbundle, it will almost certainly stand on appeal. And that just about wrecks the current MS DRM effort. Don't worry, though. They'll come up with another, but it will take a few years.
If they really want to do something, fines are not the way to go. The only effective measure would be to make them modify Windows. In the US, because they weren't forced to modify windows' bundling, the fines levied really had no effect. In fact it was a positive experience for them because they paid their fines mostly in free software to schools, furthering their monopoly. If IE was seperated from the OS, then something might have actually change.
Reports were that the EU was considering seperating Windows Media Player from the OS. I think this would be a good start, but not enough. And a mere fine wouldn't be enough either.
What I think really needs to be done to break their monopoly.
a) Seperate Outlook Express, IE, Media Player, and Windows Messenger from the OS. Make them free downloads from Microsoft.com
b) OEM's shouldn't have such a hefty penalty for also selling competing OS's. All MS OEM contracts for desktop systems contain provisions that keep you from selling any other OS than windows. If you don't sign a contact, you pay retail. This needs to be done away with.
c) All file formats non-patentable and documents for the file format specs need to be made available publicly so competing software can be made interoperable.
You don't think this might have anything to do with the quality of native language user interfaces, or stimulating the own economy instead of someone elses? Nah...
Those "everyone" do not seem to have any problem to move from Windows3.11 to Windows95 and from ther to WindowsNT or Windows2000, and from there to WindowsXP.
All those migrations are not smooth, many things change (as we can attest by the great side business that teaching MS software is, a whole industry in helping people use the "user friendly" products of MS reaps the benefits).
It is completely disingineous to see people migrating all the time to very different software platforms whose only similarity is the name of the manufacturer and then deny that that same peoplsomehow would become stupid if they would need to migrate to OSS solutions.
Pure and adultereted FUD and patronizing of users covered by the sheepskin of concern for loss of productivity.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Maybe it is strange to americans, because you have a different culture.
In the US, everything is mangled through the court system, and the government is - at least on paper - weak and limited.
In the EU, many things are handled by the bureaucracy, and the courts are generally seen as a last resort.
Both systems have their advantages and shortcomings. While the EU probably has the most convulted and bloated bureaucracy on the planet, the US is a giant job-guarantee program for lawyers and so lawsuit-happy that it is sickening.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org