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Repairing Speaker Foam Surrounds?
bigmush asks: "I have an old pair of speakers, and they had been working fine until recently. I took off the covers, and saw that the foam surround had started to wear out on both of the woofers. After 15 years of service, this was a sad discovery (though also an opportunity to justify an upgrade!). I found a few foam surround repair kits available online. How well do these work? What experiences have you had with them?"
Uh, really, couldn't you just buy a new speaker?
I have misplaced my pants.
In general. they aren't worth it. You would be better off burning your dollars for heat. you'd get a better return on your investment.
Of course, I have never used what you are referring to, but hey, this is slashdot.
I haven't used the specific ones you found, but tried a very similar product for repairing a set of tried and true loudspeakers I used to own that suffered a similar failure. Bottom line, don't waste your time, just get some new speakers. It seemed to work well enough at first, but after only a few months of my listening habits, they were shot again. But as usual, YMMV.
1) Even if the repair did work, your speakers would sound slightly differant, as adding new foam would re-shape the cone. :-D
2) From my experience these things rarely work. Just look at these kinds of things like me, you know have a wonderful excuse to justify the expense to your g/f
...unless you just want the experience if diddling with them. I used to order repeair kits for people with old JBL monitors and original Advents and such. Very few were successful and of those that were, fewer were satisfied. I started selling a full line of individual replacement speakers instead. Far more were satisfied.
If your surrounds are worn out, chances are your speakers are so old that significant advances in speaker technology would get you better speakers for less money.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
A decent pair of speakers can really live this long and keep being great. A quality stereo pair bought 15 years ago will still whoop any standard 5.1 or 6.1 system of today thrown at them (I have a SoA and Thoebe pumping out quality through 15 year old speaskers right now).
I don't recommend new foam in itself, but if the shell/stand of your speaker is still good you can replace the whole 'insides' at a reasonable cost and keep what makes your speaker more than good.
--
FreeNET user? Comfortable with the adverse selection?
This is a Ratio of what I get out of something as to what I put into it.
Your fun would be that you have your speakers back, you have spent a couple of bucks on it to bring back to life old ass speakers.
Fun = 5 on a scale of 1 to 10
Pain, is you have to do it. It might not come out as planned. You have old ass speakers you have now sunk more money into.
Pain in your ass = 6
If your p > f just buck up and do what is more fun. IE- buy some new speakers.
In this case if you don't have the money, and it would cause you to not eat for a week. Well then the F/P Raito is scewed.
Your fun just went up, it is always fun to eat.
F = 6
P = 5
f > P = Fix the damn things, food is more important.
Figure out what your f/p ratio is. This is a life lesson. The f/p ratio is what keeps me sane.
Just recently I had a f/p ratio for going surfing.
3 foot, semi glassy surf. Fun = 7
58f water temp, cloudy, hole in wetsuit. Pain = 7.5
Had I been 23 again, the pain raito would have been about 5.5. Thus I would have hit the waves, as it is now...screw it. I am going to get a game of WarcraftIII in with beer and wait for the florida sun to heat up the water a bit.
Live by the f/p ratio!
Neck_of_the_Woods
#/usr/local/surf/glassy/overhead
Surround repair kits are cheap and work very well. If the drivers are generic junk, then it might not be worth the effort, unless you're really poor. If the drivers are good, like Bose or something, then it's definately worth it.
-73, de n1ywb
www.n1ywb.com
A speaker's sound reproduction characteristics are defined by the motor strength (magnet), compliance (bounciness of the surround and spider), and moving mass. Change one of these things, and you've just changed the overall compliance of the speaker (the "Q", in audiophile-speak). If you change the "Q" for high-frequency and midrange drivers, the effects may be minimal, because drastically changing their "Q" is more difficult". Low frequency drivers are another matter, and a great deal of design work goes into pairing the driver, enclosure, and port length to get a particular response curve. If you can find out from the manufacturer whether the surrounds will work well, you might be able to keep the speakers around for a while, and have them sound as good as new...otherwise, it's a crap shoot. Also remember that you're going to need a fairly robust adhesive to make the things stick for more than 20 minutes, and speaker basket and cone sizes can vary widely for "standard" sizes...especially for major name brand manufacturers. Overall, it's probably going to be best for you to retire you 15-year-old gear, and start shopping for a new pair that will last that long, but it wouldn't hurt to try to fix your current ones while you look.
"Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law
www.miragespeakers.com
And never ever look back.
Oh yeah and next time, buy drivers with rubber surrounds.
-73, de n1ywb
www.n1ywb.com
I had no luck trying to fix a pair of speakers a couple years ago. Admittedly I wasn't using a foam repair kit but Duct Tape instead. I guess there is in fact at least one thing that Duct Tape is no good at fixing.
I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
\I have not used the kits myself, but the reports from a long time shop partner on the ones he has used were very positive. \Don't let the SAY-NO-TO-EVERYTHING types scare you off with their pesimism. I have done between 15-20 repairs where no kit was available using nylon mesh cloth saturated with 3M \Black \Weather stripping \Cement thinned with \Acetone and gotten results which ranged from at least fair to a couple that were amazingly fine!\
Thelma, I'm not making ANY deals.
Just my 2c.
"1984" was ment to be a warning, not a guidebook. You hear that Kim Jong-il!? BushCo?!
simplyspeakers.com has great product and reasonable prices. I ordered from them a couple of times and service has always been excellent.
Of course, this all makes sense only if the speakers were actually high quality in the first place. If they use cheap generic drivers, you might want to just replace the drivers entirely. Of course, you have to be careful to not ruin the voicing of the speaker.
as suggested in another comment, contact the manufacturer of the speakers and see if they 1) still exit , 2) offer a repair service. If you've enjoyed them that much for so long it might very well be worth it to send them for repair. obviously out of warrenty, but if its just the surround they might charge to much.
I follow the SDK and GDN principles.. Spelling Dont Kount, Grammer Dont Neither
I agree that this was not a main page ask slashdot... but more appropos here would have been something like "I'm looking for some new speakers for my computer that I can buy online. Does anybody know of a place that will record an .ogg file of how the speakers sound so that I can listen to them before I buy them?"
I own a set of 15 year old Mission speakers. Damn nice sounding they are too. One of the drivers got damaged when a friend drunkenly fell into it.
:)
Rather than mess about trying to repair it myself I posted the driver off to Mission to see what they could do. Unfortunately for me, they couldn't recone it but they could supply me with an equivelant replacement driver.
60 later and I'd repaired the speaker. Hopefully I'll get another 15 years out of them.
Many decent speaker manufacturers offer a recone service. If not they'll more than likely offer a replacement driver. Give it a shot!
Oh yeah and next time, buy drivers with rubber surrounds.
Actually, that depends on who you talk to. Foam tends to have a much better response, but rubber is much more durable. There are pros and cons to each. Foam won't decrease the "punch" a driver has, as it's good to have a relatively flexible edge. Of course, if the speaker needs to be rugged (for instance, if you're in outdoor, dirty/dusty, or travelling environments), or you're not in a professional environment, rubber surrounds are the way to go.
But it all depends on the application.
Try these guys out: PE
You can find foam surround replacement kits, or you can search for some drivers that fit specific parameters to replace your bad ones. Either way, I'm sure you'll find something in a decent price range.
BAM!
I have done between 15-20 repairs where no kit was available using nylon mesh cloth saturated with 3M Black Weather stripping Cement thinned with Acetone
I've done several repairs with kits, but none that were "ad-hoc", so to speak, and I dreaded the thought of even using a kit, not to mention making my own surround. You poor, poor bastard.
I salute you!!!
In many cases there are other issues with the speaker as well that make it worthwhile to have the speaker looked at by somebody with experience at this sort of thing.
I have dealt with these guys with a great deal of success.
http://layneaudio.hypermart.net/repair.htm
Not cheap, but if you have good speakers they are usually worth repairing. The owner is a real geek about this sort of stuff too, so you are getting somebody who has some real knowledge.
Since most people posting in this topic seem somewhat knowledgable about speakers, I was wondering if anyone had any experience building their own speakers? I'm taking a class in acoustics where we are building our own speakers from kits, but the instructor left us to find our own kit system to build. I'm looking to build two stereo speakers and a sub, just the drivers, I'll be building my own box and crossover. Any suggestions in the fairly cheapo range ($250 would be great) would be appreciated.
If you can read this then I forgot to check "Post Anonymously"
Generally the surround material is determined by the enclosure design. Sealed boxes (known as "acoustic suspension" about 30 years ago) usually call for the "floppier" foam surrounds as the air pressure differential between the inside and the outside of the box is part of the speaker's suspension that restores it to the rest position when the voltage across the terminals goes back to zero, whereas the stiffer surrounds are more often used in non-sealed boxes, such as open back guitar amp cabinets and "bass reflex" cabinets with the plastic pipe "tuned ports".
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Wow. The parent was the first post, and yet it's still moderated as "Redundant."
That's cool.
I have misplaced my pants.
Damn, they all look just as bad as my current screen.
Let's stick with statistics like frequency response graphs.
Even today Accoustic Research 3a's are used as reference speakers. Yamaha NS1000's are used for critical monitoring. Who would stick a substandard consumer driver into a pro cabinet? The driver is matched for the crossover. Using a substitute of differing coupling, suspension, and/or weight can mess up the system response and create resonances that didn't exist before. A sub is probably OK for your home theatre, but for studio critical monitoring, accept no substitutes. Your quality product depends on it.
Here is what Stereo Review has to say about both of them. See items 97 and 91. They are the ones I have.
http://www.stereophile.com/features/709/
Compare the graphs with anything BOSE. I'll tell you which one can create a better image of the original environment.
For my old 3a's, I do have the foam edge problem. I bought them used in 1978. Because they are acoustic suspension (very loose long throw) they are worth the money to find a shop that can do a good job re-coneing them. It's hard to replace the foam because of the damage removing it and the added weight of old + new glue. A good shop can re-cone them for about $40 each. I found a shop in Portland OR that does a great job.
The NS1000's are now going on 24 years old (bought in 1980) without any problems of any kind. There isn't much stuff out there that reliable to run problem free for 20+ years without a glitch. When they have a problem, I'll probably have them repaired instead of replaced as there isn't much on the market that has that quality, relibility and longevity. I've has other speakers fall apart in less than 1/3rd the time. Don't think they lasted this long just because I baby them. I don't.
It's sad when cheap speakers fall apart after only 10-15 years or less.
The truth shall set you free!
I fixed some ancient Epicure speakers around 4 years back and haven't had any problems with moderate listening levels for many hours a day, and dozens of hours at peak volumes.
Just take your time, work slowly and carefully.
But you may want to look around for a place tat does speaker repair so you can get a pro job done, our local (milwaukee) place is thunderhead reconing, but it seems they dont have a website. Failing that it may just be time to get new speakers.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
Tried it and failed. Actually did pretty well on one speaker - but the other wasn't centered well enough and still rattled after the repair. Bought a pair of Axiom's and am enjoying them thoroughly.
get with the program and use duct tape.
This summer I came into possession of a big old pair of 15" Scotts whose foam had substantially rotted away. While I had seen refoam kits on the internet, I always though to myself, "could that really work?", and kind of doubted it. Since I was unemployed and brokish at the time, I didn't want to blow cash on an unproven technology (internet refoam kits) and had entirely too much free time. So I decided I would spend an afternoon performing a "ghetto refoam" with silicon sealant and dryer sheets(!) to see if this home refoaming thing was actually feasible before plunking down for an actual kit.
The ghetto refoam was easy. Dryer sheets (brand unknown) were selected due to their strength, flexibility and lack of sound/noise when flexed. Cut into rounded strips matching the contour of the original foam, but a little wider; slather the strips with silicone-rubber sealant that maintains flexibility when cured; layer to suit taste (2 layers seemed like a good enough guess of the original foam's rigidity), and form around whatever's handy to match the diameter of the speaker (bucket top, coiled hose, etc.)
Once the silicone rubber had cured, it was an easy matter to arrange the pieces in place of the original foam and sort of splice them together, at this point following the normal procedures for refoaming (e.g. shimming the voice coil with whatever works, e.g. strips of Dixie cup, gluing on the new "foam", etc.).
Much to my surprise, this actually worked! It worked so well, in fact, that I just left the ghetto-foam on as a semi-permanent repair. The Scotts shake the entire neighborhood without any noticable distortion. I am amazed.
Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
Certainly not a solution for the audiophile, and probably not what you're looking for, but I sucessfully repaired an old speaker's surround foam by carefully laying small strips of duct tape around the border. I was careful to leave enough slack so the speaker could travel in a similar fashion. It actually worked pretty well, and I continued to use the speaker for several more years until I had money for something respectable :)
YMMV.
I called two high end audio stores. They had a intown guy that does it. Cost me 30 bucks to fix my dryed out infinities. Saved me 300 bucks. Try calling some of the high end speaker store in town and see if they know an intown repair guy.
If the drivers are good, like Bose
Bose has some of the crappiest drivers around actually. The magic is in their ability to make speakers that sound as good as they do (not bad at all), then charge half again what another brand delivering the same sound quality would cost.
I'm not a pro sound engineer or anything, but from what I understand re-surrounding a Bose driver is likely to shift the driver parameters and break the magic. You are better off getting an approved replacement driver from the factory.
This is though ten years of Iowa summers and winters (range +105F to -20F), lots of thumping bass, two different vehicles, never garaged. They still sound excellent
If I remembered where I purchased the kit from I 'd post it, it came from an ad in the back of Stereo Review (Now known as Sound and Vision)
I'd advise attempting this only if you have steady hands. The supplied adhesive is extremely sticky, so you only get one shot. Also, larger drivers are probably more difficult to repair, these are a 4" midrange, so it wasn't too tough.
Anyone have recommendations of which kit to buy?
If your surrounds are worn out, chances are your speakers are so old that significant advances in speaker technology would get you better speakers for less money.
Heh... That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. And I used to work in pro audio. And a lot of that time was spent doing broadcasting and simultaneous interpretation of Canadian federal government meetings. Yours was worthy of an ambassadorship to Portugal, at the very least.
Yes, speaker technology has come a *long* way over the years. But so has manufacturing technology. Ever notice that "they don't build 'em like they used to"? That applies to speakers as much as it applies to cars.
Some of the most highly sought-after audiophile (Note that a real audiophile has technical knowledge. audiophile != the sort of idiot who buys "Monster Cable" because the sound has "more presence") speakers are vintage speakers from brands like Klipsch, Acoustic Research, Celestion. These things tend to have thick and heavy particleboard cases, overbuilt drivers, and big oil-filled non-electrolytic capacitors in the crossovers. And because they're built well, the cabinets are less affected by standing waves, the driver baskets flex less, and the horrible ESR of non-polarized electrolytics in the crossovers isn't an issue.
You will not be able to replace stuff like this by wandering into Best Buy and dropping the Visa card.
What you said is equivalent to saying, "If your tires are worn out, chances are your car is so old that significant advances in automotive technology would get you a better car for less money."
I'll pit a 1968 Dodge Dart Hemi against *any* modern car for acceleration, and if I put on a set of modern shocks and radial tires I'll also take out most competitors in the slalom.
Lots of the time, vintage is better than new. Manufacturers have learned better machining and manufacturing processes, but they've also learned how to optimize a design and cut costs better, too. Guess who that *doesn't* help.
Both with the same actual RMS wattage rating, which one is gonna pump out the bass better:
Same sorts of stuff applies with speakers...
Now, if your speakers need new surrounds:
Fire and Meat. Yummy.