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The Trouble with RFID

wintermute42 writes "Simson Garfinkel, author of Practical Unix & Internet Security along with Gene Spafford and Alan Schwartz, has an article in The Nation on RFID tags. They're not just for tracking stuff. They can track you too."

10 of 424 comments (clear)

  1. RFID Zapper? by flinxmeister · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So how feasible is a "zapper" that will render RFID's useless? The idea is you come home and run your new purchases throught some sort of scanner...and poof! Normal merchandise again.

    Any EE types that are familiar with what it would take to do something like this?

    1. Re:RFID Zapper? by imkonen · · Score: 3, Interesting
      What if it's embedded in something useful/hard to remove? How many people want to rip a button off their new shirt because that's where the RFID tag is?

      What about when you buy a new car...they're already using RFID for the keyless ignition. It's just a matter of time before they install EZPass/FastLane/WhateverItsCalledInYourArea in every new car without asking you. It won't be an obvious device in the corner of your windshield like it is now, it'll be hidden somewhere it's a pain to get to. Of course, the govt. will only track your whereabouts for free. You'll still have to pay the monthly fee if you want to zip through the toll-booths without stopping.

  2. question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What happens if you collect about 1000 RFID devices
    and carry them around with you. Will the readers
    be able to read that when you pass by a scanner?

  3. I welcome my RFID tag by bunyip · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm a triathlete and runner, we've been using RFID to track athletes for years. The main company doing this is Champion Chip. It's a small plastic device that you attach to your shoe or put on an ankle strap.

    The tracking lets them do severl things. First, they get accurate timing and immediate results. They can also track where you've been to make sure that people haven't cut parts off the course. Some people are too creative, a few years back a women hopped on the subway for part of the Boston marathon, but she went "too fast", they got suspicious and reviewed the surveillance cameras in the subway.

    The latest cool thing was in Ironman Hawaii. They had video cameras setup on the course and the chip strapped to your ankle let them know your location all day. Then, you could order a personalized DVD with video of your race. Pretty cool idea, though I didn't personally buy one.

    Some may see this as big brother, or a harbinger of things to come. Some of us, however, have been happily tracked by RFID for years - voluntarily! I wouldn't want this to be 7*24, without my permission.

    Alan.

  4. Re:Anyone with two feet and perhaps access to a ca by _LORAX_ · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What you fail to address is that takes a vehicle and one or two dedicated people per person being tracked. This is the way it should be.

    With RFID we are now faced with situation where a simple globally unique tag is assigned to each RFID tag and can be tracked with simple electronics. A store can track your every movement with a dozen carefully placed receivers by tracking the RFID tag embedded in the soles of your shoes.

    Malls could track walking patterns the same way, and by consolidating and minimg the data, they can probably match up anonymous tracking data with an individual by looking for things like credit card transactions.

    This is not stuff of Sci-Fi or intregue novels, stores want this kind of information and they WILL be using it. Unfortunatly with my buisness hat on I know that RFID will never go away, it just has WAY WAY too many advangtages for stores ( inventory, shrink reduction, fraud protection, ... ) gone will be the days that people could walk into a large store, take something off the selves and return it to the sevice counter ( it was a gift and I don't have a recipt ).

  5. Re:It will be scary when they put it in money... by tommck · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Those little strips they put in US bills can be detected through walls... not too far of a stretch to go the next step...

    --
    ---- It puts the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again. It does this whenever it's told.
  6. Privacy invasion OK as long as it's for sales? by dpbsmith · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The big question, which, it seems to me, gets deliberately fuzzed in all of these discussions, is this:

    Is it acceptable to invade your privacy as long as it is for the purpose of selling you stuff?

    Privacy advocates tend to emphasize the danger that systems put in place for the purpose of selling you stuff might later be used for purposes of political repression. This is a real concern, but a relatively remote one. It's a slippery-slope, speculative, "if this goes on" kind of argument. Yes, I know (mostly from reading Slashdot!) that there have already been instances of such usage creep.

    Let's suppose--implausible, of course, but suppose--that you could somehow guarantee that RFID tags, and all the information that companies gather on you in all sorts of ways, could be freely exchanged by companies for the purposes of selling you stuff, but could be perfectly secured against any other kind of use whatsoever.

    Would that be all right, or not?

    1. Re:Privacy invasion OK as long as it's for sales? by ferreth · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Hmm, How about when your life insurance premium is jacked up because they find out that you have been eating at various fast food vendors > 5 days a month? Same justification smoking, which is hard to hide now. You'd have to be more accountable to get the lowest rate, no less free, just that your actions would have more consequences.

      Or, is it better that everyone remain anonymous, put their dollars in the pot, and the insurance rate is based on the average actions of the individuals grouped by the limited information the insurace company is allowed to collect on you?

      --

      W9x:Thanks for the make-work project Bill.

  7. Distance too short for effective tracking? by blorg · · Score: 3, Interesting
    As far as I recall, the *maximum* distance for passive RFID, under ideal conditions, is 1 meter. Shorter in 'ordinary' conditions. This is one of the reasons passive RFID is not likely to work for 'walk out of the shop' automatic payment, but also why it is also unlikely to be much use for person tracking.

    The 'myths' of RFID - from an industry group, but might be worth a read - even the people selling these things are only claiming ranges of 10-50cm.

  8. Re:Only a problem if you never change clothes by fireweaver · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Has anybody ever thought of making a RFID tag detector? Something that simply emits whatever RF it takes to trigger the tag and listen for a response. (It is not necessary to decode the response, only to note that it is present.)

    With such a device you could scan your things and locate and remove the tags.

    It shouldn't be too hard for the hardware hackers out there to come up with something like this.