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NASA's Own X Prize?

Roger_Explosion writes "NASA has announced that its 2005 budget includes 20 million dollars allocated to what it calls 'Centennial Challenges.' These are described as 'a series of annual prizes for revolutionary, breakthrough accomplishments that advance exploration of the solar system and beyond and other NASA goals.' The article on the X Prize site seems to suggest that this was a collaborative effort between the X-Prize organisation and NASA. You can read the story on the X Prize site."

23 of 152 comments (clear)

  1. Tourism? by monstroyer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Although I am happy that funds like this are reviving the human desire to develop more space bound technology, this x prize is to jumpstart the space tourism industry.

    I see in my mind's eye several hawaiian shirt and sunglasses wearing citizens doing limbo and playing shuffle board on a double decker space bus. It just feels tacky and it is far removed from my utopian Star Trek TNG tendencies of space exploration.

    Is humankind so pathetic that the only reason we want to go into space is to expand the tourism industry?

    1. Re:Tourism? by sangreal66 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The idea is that by creating a space tourism industry companies will need to invest in the advancement of space technology to accomodate the tourism. The resulting advancement of space technology is needed to propel the world into space for non-tourism activities. At least, that is what I think.

    2. Re:Tourism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      While I believe that space exploration is more important that space tourism - space tourism will jumpstart private funding of the space program.

      I read that the top 500 millionaires said they would pay up to $100,000 for a short flight into "subspace". By offing space tourism as a new luxury for the wealthiest people in America, these people are more likely to consider investments/donations for more exploratory space programs (namely NASA).

    3. Re:Tourism? by tsunamifirestorm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      money is a big deal, and the sooner that space exploration brings back a quick profit, the sooner that you will have several companies developing spaceships, which will of course develop the technology. the x prize is an excellent way to encourage efficient (money-saving) technology because the dollar amount is low enough that these enterprises will have to cut costs.

    4. Re:Tourism? by bm_luethke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Is humankind so pathetic that the only reason we want to go into space is to expand the tourism industry?"

      No, there is NASA and others that do it, they have many dedicated staff that would make much more money in industry.

      Also how much have you donated to space travel? Why should a company (not govt) invest millions of dollars for the heck of it? Same reason you do not give up large portions of your salarly willingly for a myriad of other cause. There is nothing pathetic about it.

      It's not preciesly greed, it's putting the carrot out for the donkey.

      I am willing, and have, given parts of my salary for causes I greatly believe in (though not space travel - I probalby would if I saw someplace and thought about when I had some extra money). But my paltry contributions would get no-one nowhere in space, nor would what the vast majority of individual companies could give would be a dent in it. But if there was said carrot they are willing to gamble.

      And lastly, should they actually flat out give the millions upon millions and time I bet there would be a great deal of people (not saying you, I don't know you and have no idea) that would lambast them for not giving to some charity or other org.

      In short, without said payoff there is dis-incentive for a business to go to space. That is why the govt taxes us and spends on the grand human/technology driving projects that have no real hope of turning a profit (while there have been individual compnents that have made a fortune it is small compared to the overall cost of space exploration - not to mention had they actually patened the stuff it probably would not have spread as far as it did rendering smaller sales on top of that).

      "It just feels tacky and it is far removed from my utopian Star Trek TNG tendencies of space exploration."

      Remeber two things. By the time of star trek much of the scarcity issues that drive our economy were gone (especially by TNG) allowing pretty much everyone to persue thier humanitarian ends. I would imagine if we ever achieve all the food/energy/environment/toys we could want then Star Trek philanthropy will be a reality. Even then you had other types of greed/carrot. And secondly the Ferengi :)

      --
      ------- Sorry about the spelling, I suffer from two problems. Dyslexia makes it difficult to spell well, lazy makes it
    5. Re:Tourism? by Genda · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's so good to know that Columbus got it all wrong... Holiday Inn should have sent the first ships from Spain and built fine accomodations in the new world...

      Since when did we become such spineless weenies!!! I can't even believe the silly crap wafting to my ears... we just spent enough money to freakin' move New York city to the moon, bombing the crap out of people who weren't bothering anybody but each other, all so that President Shrub could give his Daddy the most expensive Christmas gift in recorded history. Then we decide we haven't got the intestinal fortitude to pursue our destiny, our inspired future, because we haven't the will to generate the amount of money collected by The Starbucks Corporation during any given 45 minutes period of their business day. Oohhhhh, it's soooooo hard to save the kind of money needed to get into space, it's so expensive. Oohhh, let's suck up to the "spa class", and suggest maybe the best tan in the universe can be had on the moon! Then they'll build the future for us and we won't have to grow a friggin spine!

      People... Suck it the FSCK up... our future is out there. It's not here. Here will go away. Here is dangerous... we got asteroids, and super volcanoes, and tsunamis big as mountains, we got global warming, we got methane in the sea floor, we got virii and ice ages, and it's just a very uncertain place to be... we need to spread our eggs to more than one backet. We need to get life to other places. We need to explore and grow into our universe. All of that takes guts. All of that takes commitment. It takes saying I will pay the price of admission to build a bold future, that mankind will have more than we have today.

      I'm willing to contribute the price of a Grande Mocha Latte with a shot of hazzlenut, if I know that in ten years we'll have a sustainable access to the universe, and that in twenty years a half million people will live on the moon.

      This is one of those time when somebody with a little vision and a lot of testoserone needs to stand up and say follow me, I'm going up there, last one there to join me is a BIG FAT WEENIE!!!

      Genda Bendte

      "The meek shall inherit the earth the rest of us shall receive the stars..." -- Isaac Asimov

    6. Re:Tourism? by bgarrett · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The exploitation of space comes down to economic and human factors, once the technology is there. The hman reasons are easy: you expand outward to preserve the species, and by giving people more room to live in you avert conflict, to some extent. The economic reasons are many: stuff like helium-3, asteroid mining and so forth.

      The problem is that you cannot just leap from a planet-bound existence to a space-based one. The expense of reaching orbit or escaping gravity entirely is slowly coming down, and at each stage it's essential to approach the problem of reducing costs still further in different ways. At one stage, only governments can afford to put things into space. Then, corporations. We're there now - you can pay for satellite launches. Who's going to pay for the next stage? Probably the people who can throw money at something just because they want it - namely, the rich. And what do wealthy people want from space, at this point? Gratification.

      You'll get your moon colonies once those space-tourists start cutting down the cost per pound of space launches.

      --
      Nothing worth doing is worth doing today.
    7. Re:Tourism? by ctr2sprt · · Score: 4, Insightful
      There are so many things wrong with your post I don't even know where to start. The most glaring is your internally contradictory final question. Currently we have space missions for three reasons: military, scientific, and commercial. So clearly we have at least three reasons to go into space, and none of them have anything to do with tourism. (There have been a few such flights lately, but none by NASA.) The self-contradictory part, by the way, is where you, a human, clearly believe there is another reason to go into space than tourism. Remember: generalizations are your enemy, they reflect looseness in thinking.

      I also strongly disagree with your opinion of tourism. If we manage to make space travel so reliable, affordable, and safe that people are doing it just for kicks...! Imagine a world like that! It doesn't mean we're going to stop having scientific missions. But it means that I can hop on a shuttle and go visit the moon, or another planet, or maybe even see another star. Not because I have any great reason, just because I want to. The freedom to go anywhere in the solar system for only a couple thousand bucks? Wow. I certainly think that's a noble goal, even if you don't.

  2. Ends justify the means? by King_of_Prussia · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If promoting space travel as a possible tourist activity can help develop the technology faster, I say do it.

    --

    Making the moon less necessary since 1998.

  3. Finally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Finally NASA realizes that the best way to produce innovation fast is to put it into the private sector! I am looking foreward to more programs like this, though this one will probably have limited success because of the small amount being put in compared to NASA's total budget.

    1. Re:Finally by use_compress · · Score: 4, Insightful

      $20m is a very small amount of money to the government. If it serves as a good incentive for a company to make space travel more affordable, the government could recoup the $20m many times over.

  4. Re:$20M??? by kclittle · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It's not meant to be "enough". Why not? Why do the prize givers think it will work anyway? One word: EGO.

    The $20M is just icing.

    --
    Generally, bash is superior to python in those environments where python is not installed.
  5. Finally.... by Mean_Nishka · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I predicted way back in 1999 that if and when the Chinese put a human in orbit that we'd finally get off our butts. All I can say is that it's about time.

    2004 is already shaping up to be a banner year for space exploration. I can hardly wait to see what kinds of advancements come next. Competition is healthy, let's hope for a very competitive exploration of the cosmos.

  6. Re:$20M??? by KewlJedi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The money recieved for the X-Prize would be nothing compared to what a successful space tourism industry could make, especially if you own the only company that can put tourists into space on a regular basis. Everyone's seen the polls where people say they would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for a few hours in space, and this is what the companies are aiming for; this is why people are investing in X-Prize.

  7. A minor mention on NASA's website. by Schwarzchild · · Score: 4, Informative
    --

    "sweet dreams are made of this..."

  8. Re:Here Come The... by Scrameustache · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Those 20 million should be spent on AIDS/Cancer research"

    Monkeys are getting too expensive, lets launch people with AIDS or cancer in experimental vehicles! They are expendable, and renewable!

    Furthermore, old people should be studied to determine wich nutrients they contain that might be extracted for our benefit...

    --

    You can't take the sky from me...

  9. That's it slashdot... by SirDaShadow · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...post an article about the "X-Prize" right after I read about porn/X-rated movies...

  10. research prizes bring 16:1 investment return by exratio · · Score: 5, Informative

    Research prizes work so much better than many other methods of investment in progress that it's surprising you don't see more of them. On average, you'll see 16 dollars invested in progress for every 1 in the prize.

    Here's a good article (plus links to other articles) on why research prizes are a great thing: http://www.longevitymeme.org/topics/research_prize s.cfm

    Reason
    Founder, Longevity Meme

  11. Keep the proper scale in mind by roystgnr · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The X Prize isn't about putting another man on the moon, or even putting another one in orbit. It's just about building a rocket that can get people above the atmosphere repeatedly, quickly, safely, and cheaply. Such a rocket doesn't need much in the way of performance compared to a real launch vehicle.

    For that goal (especially the "cheaply" part), increasing the amount of prize money could actually be detrimental. An expensive winning vehicle in 2000 (which could have been done, if the prize money was enough to lure a big aerospace company into the race) would have been much less of a "return on investment" than a cheap winning vehicle in 2005.

    A big part of the reason why space exploration is stuck in a rut is that when we started it, we had a post-war technology (expendible artillery rockets) that could be used to "get people to space, and damn the cost". Well, we've been using those sorts of rockets ever since, and "DAMN, the COST!" Rocket fuel is cheap, but rockets and rocket engineers are expensive, and when we throw away the former and hire armies of the latter to supervise a few launches a year it gets really expensive. There are a lot of people (myself included) who think that the only way to change this is with reusable, rapid turnaround launch vehicles, and who speculate that the natural way to develop those vehicles is from technology developed flying suborbital prototypes. Our previous strategy of "start with a huge orbital rocket, and try to make it cost effective" (the Space Shuttle) turned out to be so expensive that when it failed we couldn't afford to try again. Hopefully the alternate strategy of "start with a cost effective rocket, and try to make it orbital" will be more successful, and even when it does have failures it's a lot easier to repeat a multimillion dollar experiment than a multibillion dollar one.

    The reason these Centennial challenges (and the X Prize) are so exciting is that there's a problem with our alternate strategy: revenue. There's a commercial market for orbital rockets, but not much of a market (except for tourism, war, and the occasional science experiment) for suborbital rockets, and nobody wants to start a multi-decade research program if it's not going to bring in any money until the end. If NASA can provide funding for those projects in such a way that they can't be "cheated" into paying for failures (like they were with the X-33), it makes that long term strategy into a short term opportunity.

    Hmm... I didn't intend that to be so long; I should shut up now, find a link for anyone who's actually still reading this, and go to sleep. There's a large relevant discussion at Jerry Pournelle's website; Pournelle's opinions on this subject don't differ much from mine, he's had most of them longer than I've been alive, and he's better at articulating them.

    1. Re:Keep the proper scale in mind by mog007 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not so much anymore, but about ten years ago when Russia and the United Space were regularly sending people up into space for research, or bragging rights, or whatever they did it for, it was shown that the Russian system was a lot more efficient, and cheaper.

      They used cheaper, non-recyclable equipment and rockets, while the U.S. would spend extreme amounts of money designing reusable rockets, and space suits, then there was the excess money used to fish the rockets out of the water for recycling.

      With the Russian system it would be a lot easier to implement upgrades because there isn't very much dependency on keeping everything antiquated and compatible. If something doesn't work anymore, you can afford to use it up, then replace the entire system.

      Not to say that the 286's that are running NASA arn't good at what they did, back when they were first used, but things change, and become increasingly less useful. Just remember what happened about a year ago. You can only recycle something so many times before it's unusable.

  12. NASA should contract the Navy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Navy can make a ship that generates 40 megawatts (50,000 HP).

    The Navy can make a ship that is completely self contained.

    The Navy can make a ship that generates oxygen and scrubs the CO2 (and doesn't fail either).

    The Navy can make a ship that can stay on self-sustained 6 month missions with a crew of hundreds.

    NASA can't do more then seven crew for two weeks.

    The Navy says "Can do!" and builds the Seawolf class submarine.

    NASA says, "huh?"
    (picture Conan O'Brien doing his Bush impression)

    And if one is at all curious one should ask one's self this question: "When has a military power ever allowed a civilian agency to have more advanced technology than they do?"

    Hmm?

    I thought so.

    Happiness is asking the right questions.

  13. Maybe solve immediate problems first? Hmm? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There is no energy crisis. Never has been, never will be.

    First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy is neither created, nor destroyed.

    First law of business: Make the consumer believe the product is scarce, then package and sell it in a format that can be controlled (ie. barrels of oil can be controlled, solar roofs can't).

    The captured solar energy of a 150 mile by 150 mile square area of Nevada desert would provide the United States with all its energy needs: consumer, residential, transportation, commercial and industrial; oil, gas, coal, electric, etc. combined. Yes. It's a fact.

    And we don't need any new technology to do it either. A simple coal, gas or oil fired plant can be retrofitted with a different heat source.

    Do you know how many of these we could have built for the over $100 billion spent on securing middle east oil? 10? 100? No, _1000_. Yup! Ouch.

    But we _are_ running out of oil. And we're running out of it much faster than anybody cares to inform you.

    How much did you spend on heat this winter? On hot water? On AC last summer? On $2/gal gas for your Camry and SUV? It's time we had Open Source Energy, don't you think?

    Your friendly neighborhood,
    JSMS III

    p.s.
    For every four barrels of oil we burn, we're only finding one new one.
    Again, for every four barrels of oil we burn, we find only one new one.
    And again, for each new barrel of oil discovered, we're burning four from the old fields.

    Who was the greatest exporter of oil to the United States last year (2003)?
    Saudi Arabia? No. Venezuela? Nope. Iraq? uh-uh.
    Who was it you ask? Canada! How 'bout that, eh?
    Now ask yourself, why? How's that? What the heck is going on?

  14. Use prize to save Hubble by gojomo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hey! They should be offering a prize to the best low-cost, low-risk tech to save Hubble.