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Microsoft Develops XP 'Light' for Thailand
GoatJuggler writes with this Bangkok Post report that "Microsoft announced plans to develop a discounted, slightly crippled version of Windows XP for Thailand."
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The article says "
because of the complexity of an operating system, reducing functionality was not a simple process and every modification would have to be thoroughly tested.
So why would it make sense to spend more money in making these reductions? Why not just give the standard package? I'm missing something here.
The law of excluded middle : Either I'm foo or I'm foobar
This is quite the desperate attempt by MS to obtain a larger share of the world OS market. Hopefully those in Bangkok will learn that there's an un-crippled, stable, fast operating system out there already, and it's FREE.
I got a +5, Troll
It implies that the reason Microsoft is coming up with this "light" product is because US$99 is too expensive, so they need to come up with a way of slashing the price there without the rest of the world crying foul...
so exactly what will be the "reduced functionality"?
i'd bet it will have something to do with hardware compatibility.
If this OS comes in Thai language only, then only people familiar with the language can use it. Thai is notoriously complex.
Software publishers in Thailand have begun to realize the huge popularity of pirated software in Thailand: the extreme price differential. You might be able to sell $100 software elsewhere, but when you are selling the $100 software a few feet away from someone selling a pirated copy for $5, what is the rational consumer going to do? Video game manufactures now produce Thai versions of games, complete with a Thai installation manual and even Thai ingame instructions, for only a a few dollars more than the street price of a pirated version. If someone isn't willing to pay 20 times more for the real version, perhaps they're willing to pay only 3 times more. Disclaimer: I was an American who I lived in Thailand for five years. Has anyone else gone shopping at Panthip Plaza?
You would still need english since it is the most widely used language on the planet. However if they did only install the Thai language packs then it will deter some peoples from getting it. However i suspect a hack would sort that out before the first alpha is announced.
Jonathanjk.com
Reminds me of US pharmaceutical companies charging some countries more than others for some drugs. Like HIV drugs, for example.
You are not the customer.
But that wouldn't be very crippled, would it...
Seriously, as a ardent Linux user and open source zealot, even I admit that Windows XP is a bit more user friendly for beginners. But removing more functionality than already has been removed in XP Home? Gnome and KDE will be more than a match for this setup, I'm sure.
As if Thailand cares anyway, who's going to pay $30 for Windows XP Neutered when you can go down to your local "store" and buy Windows 2003 Advanced Datacenter Server for a dollar?
That makes absolutely no sense at all. So reducing the price by a whopping 5% makes them "affordable"? If they are reducing the price by more than 5% then it is cheaper per cigarette to buy the 19 pack instead of the 20 pack, so the 20 pack would go out of favor.
It would be more shrewd for them to sell a 20 pack that is subdivided into 4 mini-packs. That way a group of friends could all pitch in to by 20 cigarettes, and then they could divvy out the mini-packs of 5.
Dan East
Better known as 318230.
if crippled means, getting rid of internet explorer, the windows kernel, and everything else, and replacing it with, linux 2.6.2, gnome 2.4....
Bingo... Microsoft is lowering the price for Windows XP to this country because if they didn't, their government would start subsidizing Linux-based PCs. This is Microsoft's last chance to make sure that the standard PC there still runs Windows.
The most "substantive" part (technically speaking) of the article was
:]
Mr McBean added that the first release would essentially be XP Home edition with some reduced functionality, although for future versions there would be a chance of additional or incremental development and innovation.
So they are going to release XP Home and then add innovations to reduce the functionality to that of a "lite" version.
May be MS should buy the Thai people XPlite from www.litepc.com instead of spending money on additional innovation.
Microsoft are going to spend money and time devaluing their product to sell it to people who can't afford it at their current price. This from a company that makes a profit of over $1 billion a quarter.
Never trust a man in a blue trench coat, Never drive a car when you're dead
You're not serious, right? Just because they're forcing a different option doesn't mean that they aren't still forcing the choice.
hinderfreude ('hin-dur-"froi-d&), n. The feeling of joy derived from being in the way.
Yeah, but Microsoft won't be the ones doing the profitting.
They already have a 'lite' version, its what runs on PDA's...
Plus the 'embedded' product line...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
There's something very sad when comments I write shooting for funny get moderated insightful. =/
No, when you shoot for funny, and get insightful, thats ironic.
When you shoot for insightful, and get modded as funny, THAT is sad.
Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
One hallmark of a true monoply is price descrimination and market segmentation. This is where a monopoly charges different prices to different classes of users for reasons that do not reflect actual cost differences and often where the same product is sold in different forms to create artifical price points and artificial or arbitrary market seperations. The key to price discrimination is to exploit the fact that different users have a different willingness and ability to pay for essentially the same goods and services. As such I simply view this as further evidence of monopolistic behavior, as if further evidence is even nessisary.
Ars Technica has a little more on the story. Here's the text:
Microsoft is reportedly developing a "light" version of Windows XP to be aimed at developing markets. This is the word from the Bangkok Post (irritatingly long registration required), which is reporting that the origin of the project is Thailand's own program to aggressively seed homes with computers.
Thailand's People's PC project, initiated last year by the ICT Ministry, has been the genesis of a new operating system from Microsoft Corporation that is now under development, according to Microsoft Thailand Managing Director Andrew McBean. The new OS, as yet unnamed, but a new "light" addition to the Windows XP "family", will be released in limited, selected markets later this year and will offer reduced functionality when compared with Windows XP Professional and Home editions, he said.
Microsoft has to date been very protective of its pricing model, which aims at more or less parallel prices for its products across the globe. When People's PC was originally announced, Microsoft said that it would offer XP Home and Office Basic at an extremely reduced price, signaling the start of the company's willingness to adjust pricing on national levels. Now, however, it looks like the company is going to develop yet another consumer OS version. Why would the company spend additional resources developing an even-less functional version of Windows XP Home when they could simply just sell Windows XP Home at a reduced rate? The most likely explanation is piracy. In developing countries, piracy is a major problem, and the Redmond Giant is likely trying to avoid mass distribution of its fully functional OS by seeding the populace with a less functional, and probably less attractive OS.
Mr McBean added that the first release would essentially be XP Home edition with some reduced functionality, although for future versions there would be a chance of additional or incremental development and innovation. But he also pointed out that because of the complexity of an operating system, reducing functionality was not a simple process and every modification would have to be thoroughly tested.
A release date is not known for certain, but Microsoft Thailand is saying that this will happen, and not before SP2 for XP is released. It also remains unclear just where this product will be available. It's highly unlikely that it will every be available in the West. Rather, this project seems squarely aimed at recent efforts in Asia to build Linux-based solutions for emerging markets.
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
and no matter how much MS trims and cuts the price, Linux will still always be less than half the price ;) And no activation. And no locked into proprietary systems. And no peer to peer networking limitations (3 on home, 5 on pro). Oh, and almost no worms.
Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
"Customers of this new entry level version of Windows would be presented with a clear and easy upgrade path to both Windows XP Home or Windows XP Professional, he added."
1) Customer buys XP-demo
2) Customer "forced" to upgrade to XP-home/pro at a later date
3) Profit!
Before you know it, Dell/HP/etc will be shipping only XP-demo, and end-suckers^Wusers will have to post-purchase the "real" thing.
None of the articles that I've read about this have said what functionality they're taking out of the system. For all we know, all the apps that we complain about (i.e. Explorer, Outlook, and Media Player) will be in the OS and other non-downloadable, core/system functionality will be removed (e.g. VPN, IPv6, and other networking protocols) or something else vexing but replaceable with third-party software.
In other words, it's perfectly possible that it will be both "anti-competitive" AND crippled.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Last time I installed Windows XP from a CD, here's what I noticed.
1) It didn't have a compiler.
2) It had no INTENDED remote access services such as FTPD or SSHD.
3) I was unable to manipulate graphics.
4) I was unable to use my Network Card.
5) I was unable to optimally use my graphics card.
6) I was unable to optimally use any piece of hardware that didn't have Microsoft written on it.
7) It takes for ever to do anything in Notepad as compared to Vi.
8) I had practically no system logging to speak of.
9) I was unable to use multiple desktops.
10) I was unable to entirely change the appearance of the GUI.
11) I was unable to simply download much of the software needed to render Windows somewhat useful. Even though Gimp and OpenOffice run on Windows and GVIM, refer to number 4.
12) I kept getting "Access Denied" or something along the lines of insufficient permissions even though I believe I gave myself full rights over the system. On Windows 2000 this can be seen even if you are logged in as Administrator.
13) I had to reboot fifteen times, and four hours later while windowsupdate.microsoft.com told me I needed nearly a GB of updates. Many of which could only be installed one at a time.
14) Then another two hours and multiple reboots becuase of installing device drivers (refer to number 6) and then updating those from the old drivers that were on old disgarded discs in the closet.
15) I had next to nothing in regards to software and production....
Compared to what you get with the average Linux ISO image.... Windows, out of the box, is a pathetic quadriplegic whose wheel chair is missing a wheel.
Then, Microsoft goes and strips so much "functionality" from Windows XP to publicly admit it's "crippled"? What more can you take from it?
Hmmm, for one, OEM Vendors and established dealers who cannot afford to sell pirated copies?
When they have to preload and bundle OSes with their hardware, a higher overhead would hurt them real bad. Which is why, they'd rather prefer something cheaper, even though it may not be the best alternative.
If you ask, how does it make a difference to MS? Can't they sell the same thing cheaper? Then the answer would be no, simply because they'd be pressurized by other vendors in the same way.
So the solution is to come up with an excuse for a price cut, and thats precisely what they're doing.
It does not matter whether or not its got features added/removed. What is crucial is the price cut, and how they've come up with it. And its a means of attracting more OEM vendors.
How about releasing a Thai language only version. I only know one person who could use a Thai version in the us. MS could produce a version of XP that only supported languages of emerging markets.
When I was young, I had to rub sticks together to compute.
This would set a nasty precident for MSFT, once one country has seen that MSFT may remove their global pricing, every country with a currency weaker than the USD will be clamouring for the same benefits. Guess its part of a larger trend away from US companies that need to earn in USD to survive. If you think about that, there are some nasty implications for the US ahead in international trade because of the relatively strong USD...
You wrote:
But hey, companies doing whatever the hell they want is all ok with you.
I think that companies doing whatever they want is foolish and we put limits on companies all the time. Environmental, ethical, social... You can only emit this much waste. You aren't allowed to sexually harass your employees. You have to hire people regardless of the color of their skin. We collectively choose to put limits on companies all the time. I just pointed out that we have -- and accept -- price differences all the time as a natural and basic consequence of a free market. So basic, in fact, to the workings of capitalism that we often ignore it. It shows up in cola prices and downtown zone bus fares. In fact, this same force is what drives powerful engines called "commodoties markets". In these black boxes, wealth can be invested, accumulate and magically GROW -- from nothing! It is pretty amazing stuff, really, when you start to understand it. But I digress. What I am trying to say is that that basic principle beind it all is this: You have something that you can make and someone else wants to buy -- you let the buyer and seller set their own price. You don't have a third party interfere.
You're worried that YOU will somehow get screwed? Don't get too worried about this. The market is very intelligent. Consumers in a higher priced market don't let themselves get "screwed over" for long. Soon people learn how to re-import those overpriced textbooks from the UK. They find a way around the barrier and lower their price in their market too. The overall price eventually finds an equilibrium. (Which it never actually does because other goods are always trying to dislodge it from its position in the market.)
if companies were forced to either pick a global market or a local market, and were forced to stick to it
What an arbitrary rule! Why? The market will always find a way around RULES if the market wants to. More to the point, though, you should really start to admit to yourself that there are a lot of people out there who mean it when they say that this is a global economy and they believe that this will continue to happen. Industry by industry, economy by economy, until the whole world catches up. Small electronic goods in Japan in the 60s and 70s. Semiconductors in South Korea in the 80s and 90s. Programming in India today. Huge American industries get outsourced to other countries, American workers -- eventually -- find other things to do. And the country that rides the boom is able to modernize in a very short span of time. Everyone benefits in the end. But of course if you happen to be in those sectors that get hit when they are getting it... it is painful to you. But let's not be intellectually dishonest and paint the globalization crowd as pure evil. Let's be honest enough to admit that they have a pretty strong case on their hands. It happens to suck for us because we are in IT and most of our jobs are going to end up overseas. But they aren't doing it to be evil. They are doing it because they want to see the whole world lifted up, just like you, and it just so happens that theirs is the only proven method to modernize the world...
But hey, your rant sounded really heart-felt and I bet it helps you get the ladies over beers on a Friday night. Keep it up, man!
I would have to say that explosives are the most abused technology in all of history.
My hello world OS has no activation, no lock-in, no p2p limitations, and zero worms. If you're trying to sell Linux, you should mention what it does have not what it doesn't.
;) In 10 years, I would bet they would be the AOL of desktops. Big, but not 51% of the market.
I use both, so I'm not exactly trying to sell Linux, but your point is still valid for those that are selling it.
At this stage, I'm more likely to switch back to Mac instead of Linux on the desktop, at least for another year or two. Only use Linux for servers, but still using Windows for the desktop because I love "new, exciting, open and free" but I love photoshop, quark and pc games, and I am more concerned with ease of use and security than freedom on the desktop. For servers, its security and freedom that concern me. Obviously Windows is no longer fitting the bill for either, for my purposes.
I am not a Linux zealot, I'm a Linux realist. I know its almost but not quite ready for primetime on the desktop, and at the cusp of being the best thing out there for servers. Eventually, Linux will be the dominant operating system on the desktop, or at least some unix like system based on Linux/BSD. It just makes sense on so many levels, particularly in security and portability for programmers (once they get the api thing worked out on the desktop.) Windows will still be there, and perhaps as a desktop ontop of a BSD kernel, like Mac. I mean, they ARE licensing Unix technology from SCO, aren't they
I will say this, I'm far from an expert, but have run several Linux servers for many years and tend to run services on seperate boxes for security and redundency. Linux is at least as easy as Windows server for what I do, just different. Considering I can ssh in and start or stop any services quickly, upgrade, update, install, uninstall, and actually see all the processes that are currently running on a single screen, I would say its much easier to maintain.
Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
Examples:
1. Senior rates and student rates. They are poorer and can't afford things like park admission. This is a way to get them to pay up.
2. Coupons. Lower income people will now shop at your store. Rich people generally have better things to do with their time than clip coupons.
Microsoft is not special, and you don't need to be a monopoly to 'exploit' this strategy.
Corporations: your universal scapegoat for all society's ills.
I don't know. I'm using Windows XP Professional and there's honestly nothing in it I would've paid over $50 for to upgrade from Windows 2000 Professional. I got it for $20 through a campus licensing program, but if I had to buy it on my own at full price I would've just stuck with Windows 2000. I can't imagine how crippled the XP Home version is if XP Pro is this bland. I would've expected developer tools like Visual Studio and Office 2003 Professional to be bundled in with XP Professional for the outrageous price they charge for it normally (over $200!!!). I can get basically the same thing, sans the support for Windows games, by installing Debian GNU/Linux w/OpenOffice.
Microsoft's problem in many parts of the world is that their US & Western European prices are dead-on-arrival. People who make $200/month are not about to cough up $199 for a copy of XP Pro. If they sell at a price that makes sense in Thailand, they get accused of "dumping". Piracy has little to do with the situation. Linux is available with no piracy required. With or without piracy, customers are not going to spend money they don't have.
If I were in charge of global marketing for Microsoft, I would create a country-specific version for certain target markets (like Thailand). It would be cosmetically "dumbed down" and priced to sell. Of course, any of the features that are not included in the base install can probably be downloaded from microsoft.com in about 30 seconds. You can't be accused of dumping if the product in question isn't sold anywhere else.
No, when you shoot for funny, and get insightful, thats ironic.
In practice, the only difference between Insightful and Funny is that Insightful rewards the poster with karma and Funny doesn't.
The opposite is more true. Microsoft's business case relies on the high dollar return per package sold. Which of their high yield customers feel they deserve to be treated less well than the Thais? Everyone will want price reductions now.
They are paying developers more money to cripple XP so they can sell it for less. Only a multi-billion dollar monopoly can get away with such illogical and rediculous actions.
True --
But consider! MS is going for complete computing noobs here. Looking at the mailing lists, Linux can be befuddling for power users. It took me my own good time to figure some things out, no thanks to spotty documentation.
And therein lies the rub -- MS may suck donkey balls in a lot of ways, but they do a good job of holding noob hands with decent documentation. Unless and until some Linux distro can do the same, and still for that same magic price (and in Thai, Laotian, Swahili, what have you), I think this move by MS presents a genuine threat of incursion into undeveloped mental real estate.
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Perhaps Microsoft is hoping that users after 'trying out' XP Lite will want to upgrade to Home/Pro thus giving them more revenue.
I'm not sure whether you were ranting or being ignorant, so I'll assume someone else is ignorant and needs me to say the following:
This is done all the time. Take, for instance, the Quadro line of cards by nVidia. You are buying an intentionally crippled card everytime you buy a GeforceFX. Same hardware, sans a couple switched transistors and a slightly modified BIOS. In other words, they made the Quadro, and then crippled it to be the GeForce.
It's certainly not a tactic that only Microsoft employs. Indeed, most firms that sell both to the "individual consumer" and businesses do it. Singling out Microsoft as an evil corporation because they're employing intelligent (and in this case, non-monopolistic) business practices is stupid.
Basic economics. Literally, they taught it at the very lowest level economics course at my school.
-Erwos
Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
You can bet the things they'll pull out won't be IE, OE and Messenger. It'll be mostly stuff from the administrative tools, user profile options, ICS, etc.
:P (I doubt they will given all the security hounds on them these days and SP2 supposedly turning on the firewall by default and whatever else).
The kind of stuff that 90% of "normal" consumers don't really use anyway, so that they can justify a new price level for people who can't (or don't want to) afford home edition.
And of course, if they decide not to release this stripped down (and lower-priced) version in the wealthier countries (US:P), then they'll have the best of both markets -- most people here aren't going to bother going through customs and everything for a cheaper copy of windows, and most people in Thailand and wherever will have a version of windows available at a price they can better afford.
Hopefully they won't decide to strip ICF
Same for lots of things... an egg in an expensive restaraunt doesn't cost much more than an egg in a cheap one.
I remember a similar (slightly dafter sounding) ploy made by toshiba with their libretto laptops. Their supplier no longer made hard drives of the size they wanted to supply with the 70CT (2GB I think) so they bundled a larger hard drive, and set the BIOS up to only acnowledge 2GB of space! It didn't take long for people who knew to circumvent it, probably merely a sizeable minority tho.
I believe you're referring to the 10 packs being introduced at the moment in Germany, also commonly known as "childrens' packs". Those were (allegedly) introduced to capture the market of those who cannot readily afford a full 20 pack. (Ie. teens, get them hooked on cigarettes while they're young, so it's less likely they'll be able to overcome the addiction later in their life.)
The reason for 19/20 cigarettes per pack is the vending machines -- you cannot refit all the vending machines to charge 3.20EUR/pack, but you can simply put one or two cigarettes less in one pack.
Regards, Felix. (smoking kreteks myself, can't stand regular cigarettes.)
In a free market price is set by the meeting place of the supply and demand curves. These are over the entire market. What creating a crippled version does is split the single market into two. One market with people willing to pay more for extra features, the other market for the rest. No loss is made on the "el cheapo" market, and a considerable profit is made in the expensive market, in comparison with selling it all at the same price.
...), which sell differentiated logos with regular clothes attached to them.
Differentiating your market is necessary to sell commodity products (which video cards are). As demonstrated by the major sporting goods manufacturers (nike, adidas,
That microsoft is forced to differentiate its market like this is good news. It means they're losing their monopoly power. A monopoly can always sell everything at the higher price. Clearly, they can't anymore, not everywhere at least. So three cheers to the downfall of the evil empire.
1. Release the Crippled Windows XP
.
2. The pirates copy it like mad.
3. People use the pirate copy eventually upgrade to the full version of Windows XP, stolen or purchased - it doesn't matter.
4. Linux development, distribution, and adoption is slowed down - or crushed.
5. Now Microsoft is using Pirates as Marketers to crush the Linux competition, and protect the main product line. (i.e. free labor)
6. Keep selling more of the full WinXP to those who want to / are forced to - buy it.
7. Profit ! ! !
It follows the same MS logic as:
Paying fines for monopoly behavior by dumping tons of free product on schools and children... attempting to crush Apple and Linux by sealing the minds of children into the Windows Matrix forever and ever...
Go ahead and mod this up