Slashdot Mirror


Harlan Ellison Can Sue AOL Under DMCA

mbstone writes "The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled that sci-fi author Harlan Ellison can go ahead with his DMCA lawsuit against AOL. Seems somebody posted some Ellison stories to Usenet, AOL made 'em available, Ellison complained, and AOL blew him off."

11 of 98 comments (clear)

  1. Compliments to whoever wrote the document! by Sklivvz · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is ridiculous, the document reads "Stephen Robertson posted copies of some of Ellison's copyrighted short stories on a peer-to-peer file sharing network, the USENET.

    Since when is USENET a P2P Filesharing network? Ok, you can find a lot of stuff in it, but it's NOt peer2peer and file-sharing , it's client/server and message-posting! It's a totally different thing.

    1. Re:Compliments to whoever wrote the document! by lambent · · Score: 5, Informative

      Ah, my friend, you forget the fact that USENET is indeed made up up many different distributed peers.

      From the servers' points of view, it is P2P. That's why your experience on any one server my be drastically different than another.

      As for file sharing .... go check out the alt.* hierarchy.

    2. Re:Compliments to whoever wrote the document! by clonebarkins · · Score: 5, Informative
      From the servers' points of view, it is P2P.

      While it is undoubtedly P2P...

      As for file sharing .... go check out the alt.* hierarchy.

      ...just because people can share files on it, it's not a "filesharing system". People can share files via the World Wide Web, but it's not considered a "filesharing system". Calling USENET a "P2P filesharing system" is limiting at best and gives a potentially pejorative connotation.

      --

      "The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it." -- Ayn Rand

  2. Pray the jury is sensible. by sudog · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If an author can sue every single ISP for damages, everywhere, we enter a nasty realm of "okay time to shut anything that might be infringing down."

    What ISP can afford to filter every newsgroup manually? What ISP can sit there and act on anything but complaints?

    An author deserves protection, but the person responsible for posting it is the one liable--not the ISPs who provide the avenue by which an author's works are distributed.

    What's the matter, Harlan? Not enough money lining your pockets from your successful writing/consulting/speaking career?

    Bah.

    1. Re:Pray the jury is sensible. by JabberWokky · · Score: 5, Interesting
      What's the matter, Harlan? Not enough money lining your pockets from your successful writing/consulting/speaking career?

      No, it's just that Harlan is a freaking lunatic. I have been screamed at by the man not once, not twice, but three times in my life (so far). The guy goes into screaming fits regularly. I have also seen him lift a barstool to clock a guy at a bar inside a hotel lobby. He threw a fit because a group of us were making too much noise as he was giving an interview... by the hotel elevators. And then he tried to throw me out of the filk room when it was reserved, as I happened to be the first one there setting up for everybody. Again, another "interview", which was far more important than the use of the room by a dozen people who had reserved it on the schedual months ago.

      The guy is the closest match to the cartoon definition of meglomania I've ever seen. He's a parody of a egotistical jerk. If he wins this case, I would not be surprised if he then proceeded to sue every other ISP that has a usenet server... and be cocksure he should win.

      If you want a longer version of these ancedotes, I've posted about him on Slashdot before. He's an amazing guy. Good writer, but I think if I had to sit next to him in a plane, one or both of us would be stepping outside ten minutes after takeoff, likely with a firm kick to the rear.

      --
      Evan

      --
      "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
    2. Re:Pray the jury is sensible. by utahjazz · · Score: 5, Funny

      Good writer

      Really? I haven't seen any of his stuff. Could you post some of it here?

  3. RTFA by JetScootr · · Score: 4, Informative

    In accordance with the DMCA, Ellison's lawyer sent AOL an email with notification of infringement. AOL ignored the email.
    Actually, Ellison was kinder to AOL than the RIAA has been to file sharers. This is the same thing, only it wasn't music, it was literature.
    The judge ruled that the lower court was wrong to issue summary judgement that infringement did not occur, even though the facts were accepted by both parties that the copyrighted material was posted.

    --
    Pavlov wouldn't be so famous if he'd used a can opener instead of a bell.
  4. All Usenet would be vulnerable... by Ioldanach · · Score: 4, Interesting
    There are two aspects to this case. First, he contacted two companies running Usenet servers via e-mail. AOL didn't respond, and says they didn't get it, thus they didn't remove the files from their servers. That's what the lawsuit is really about. Personally, I think if the case comes to this point, the testimony will bear out exactly what happened. He may have sent to the wrong e-mail, or it got lost among the spam. If you want something done, legally, send a piece of paper, not an e-mail.

    The larger issue is that each Usenet group is carried, in its majority (not necessarily whole) by hundreds, possibly thousands of companies across the globe. Tens of thousands of messages pass through thousands of groups daily. Any server carrying a large percentage of groups with a standard policy for deletion should be treated as a common carrier. The case here should revolve around whether notice was served and responded too.

    Otherwise, all Usenet would be vulnerable to this kind of attack, and companies might begin to shut down a valuable means for information exchange on the presumption of the guilt of its users. It isn't like this is a single company who can fight using the "substantial noninfringing uses" argument.

    Of course, this doesn't exclude the fact that he contacted 2 of the hundreds or thousands of companies with news feeds. What about the rest? Did he not know how the system worked? He should be taking out potential losses on the hide of the person who posted the material.

  5. Obvious? by kurosawdust · · Score: 5, Funny

    "I Have No Morals Yet I Must Sue"?

  6. Re:Absurd by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Insightful
    No he doesn't. As the article write-up points out, he asked AOL to remove the (clearly) infringing articles, and AOL blew him off.

    You could infer that he plans on suing every NNTP server operator on "the web" (you mean the 'net, right?) if he has asked every single NNTP server operator, individually, to remove the files from their servers, and every single one of them has refused.

    It strikes me as a reasonable request and I think Ellison is within his rights to go to court over it.

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  7. Ellison's comments by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Informative
    Here's what Harlan Ellison has to say about the appeal.

    Looking at it, it does look like he still has to clear several hurdles. So this isn't a sure thing. You can read about Harlan Ellison's general efforts to deal with protecting author's copyrights here.

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.