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Whose Prior Art Filing Triggered Eolas Reexam?

theodp writes "The Eolas patent case history shows another prior art filing was quietly made ten days before the widely-publicized W3C filing and two weeks before Tim Berner-Lee's reexam request. Now Ray Ozzie speculates the earlier filing was one being floated at the time that was jointly signed by a number of other parties who supported W3C member Dave Raggett's prior art, which Microsoft unsuccessfully tried to use in the $521 million Eolas lawsuit. Ozzie also notes that those involved argued for all to stand solidly behind the Raggett prior art and not cite anything else. So who are these other parties, and was it their filing and lobbying that triggered the Eolas reexam?"

13 of 136 comments (clear)

  1. Serious Question for L's and IANAL's by SloWave · · Score: 5, Interesting


    How hard is it to file file art papers with the patent office? Does the patent office charge for these filings? Can anyone do it? Maybe it's time to generate some boilerplate filings and start attacking some of these bogus patents out there.

    1. Re:Serious Question for L's and IANAL's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Of course if there was any justice and it was
      shown that there was prior art that could easily
      have been found and the USPTO was essentially
      asleep on the job, you should get that refunded.
      But it's unlikely to happen.

    2. Re:Serious Question for L's and IANAL's by Dashing+Leech · · Score: 5, Interesting
      This is something that irks me. I can understand why filing a patent costs a lot of money. But if a bad patent is granted it should be easy to have it revoked, not $9000+. After all, we're essentially doing the job that the reviewer should have done in the first place.

      Wait, maybe that's the plan. It's like software companies intentionally putting bugs in their programs, then charging you even more to fix them and with upgrades. The patent office gets paid to grant a patent, and then gets paid again to revoke it. It's either sloppy workmanship or intentional deceipt.

      If a bad patent is granted, what can the "little" guy do? The options are to have it reviewed or to violate it and risk have it go to court. Either way, it's expensive.

    3. Re:Serious Question for L's and IANAL's by SloWave · · Score: 3, Interesting


      It sounds like it is possible for an ordinary person to contest patents. Of course the patent attys and other's who have a lot to lose will say all sorts of scary reasons why not, but here's a couple thoughts that I have on the subject...

      1. The Scientologists tried to scare off their critics by throwing high dollar lawyers at them. Some of the critics countered very successfully by acting as their own lawyers and filing and handling their own cases. Seems to me that this tactic will work with the patent office since anyone should be able to represent themselves. What can the patent office do to you anyway for trying to use the system?

      2. A while back the FCC had it's whole fee structure thrown out when it was declaired unconstitutional and discrimatory. I think the main reason was that it discriminated in favor of large businesses. Seems to me that the patent office is in the same boat today. Maybe a class action suit against the patent office fee structure is due.

      3. No one really has come out and said if there is a fee for filing a prior art claim against an existing patent. Is there?

    4. Re:Serious Question for L's and IANAL's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Something that would also help would be a public database of patents that seem to be bogus, complete with cited prior art to back up the claims. As the list of bogus patents grows, so will the public's understanding of the problem. /. AC

  2. tkwww perhaps by boutell · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Very early versions of the tkwww browser supported full-scale applets: tk widgets and tcl scripts embedded in HTML. The feature was removed later due to the obvious security concerns, but nobody else had a real security model at the time, either (sigh, it's always the obvious and easy part that somebody patents). Unfortunately I was unable to contact the original author or locate a sufficiently old tarball of tkwww; but perhaps someone else succeeded in doing so. This was definitely available early enough, '93 or early '94.

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  3. Why only the Raggett citation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm not sure I understand the theory that other prior art would,
    apparently, be too confusing for the patent office to handle. It
    doesn't sound like the typical lawyer thing to do (which is to use
    a shotgun approach). This is weird to me, and I would like to understand.

  4. Could it be ... MicroSoft?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    From what I have seen of this case, it's not entirely clear that Microsoft wanted to win in the first place. Their lawyers seemed to have bungled the original case pretty badly, and by being involved in the re-exam, they can once more attempt to control the outcome (notwithstanding the huge monetary award for Eolas, which of course MicroSoft can write-off easily enough, but which more than likely will get reduced on appeal anyway, like usual.)

    Think about it though: what sort of place would Microsoft be in with regards to the anti-trust/browser issue if they could no longer support "open standards" media formats in the browser (not that they couldn't, but they can use this as an excuse not to)? They would end up locking-in websites to support the Microsoft-only formats, and make IE the "browser of record" (If nothing else, the FUD factor would come to bear.)

    Everyone seems to hate MicroSoft enough to overlook their apparent incompetence in the courtroom and in the cubicle. Could they really be gaming the system instead? Already they have led to the most obvious prior art going overlooked by the patent office (with the support of even the w3c!). Just why didn't MicroSoft fire their law firm over this?

    Or, do you think that it would not be in MicroSoft's character to risk barrels of cash and get involved as an anonymous agent to cause havoc in the open standards battle? (Hmmmmm... maybe he has a point....)

  5. Patents suck because lawsuits require gobs o' cash by hellfire · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Dunno if this is out on the web, but I googled for it and any site with relevant information was slashdotted before I even posted about this!

    The inventor of the Weed Whacker was some lone man somewhere in the US. He patented his device and made a sizeable sum of money from it. Demand was huge, and he just started out.

    Well, legend has it Sears made their own weed whacker without obtaining rights to it and sold that to many eager customers who couldn't obtain the original weed whacker. The original inventor sued. Sears tied the case up in the courts until the inventory eventually had to give up because he ran out of money. His income dried up because sears essentially stole his sales.

    I welcome corrections to this story, but it's when companies with huge amounts of money can kill lawsuits by making someone else spend what little money they have, that you realize that it's the legal process that is killing patents.

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  6. Re:Another Harpy dives on Al Gore's corpse by SydShamino · · Score: 4, Interesting

    George Westinghouse wanted to bring electricity to the country. So he hired Nikola Tesla and gave him (and a lot of other people) the money to build the Niagra Falls power plants and the necessary distribution system.

    Mr. Westinghouse didn't invent anything, or build anything with his own hands. He provided the money to make it possible.

    From the definition of initiative: # [adj] serving to set in motion;

    Mr. Westinghouse took initiative to create the power grid by setting in motion (via cash) the people to do so.

    Gore did about the same with the internet, but he's a politician not a businessman. Thus, he did it with other people's money, not his own. :)

    (And of the 100s of other people who also voted for it, any and all of those that were convinced to vote for it by Gore ADD to his initiative, they don't take away from it.)

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  7. Re:The whole patent path was a mess... by Yaa+101 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    oops... check here

  8. software is well protected by copyright by budgenator · · Score: 2, Interesting

    No not really, by copyrighting software, your protecting the implimentation of a "method" for 90 years, but others are free to impliment the "method" using original source code, this is reverse-engineering. However with a patent on the "method" is protected for 17 years, so even if the method is reverse-engineered, it's still got protection. Personaly I don't understand why the PTO doesn't require that the un-copyrighted source code needed to implement a method isn't required to be filed; a software prototype or model of the "device or method". That would allow others to patent improvements to the original patent; would that build a fire under developers asses to improve their products!

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    1. Re:software is well protected by copyright by budgenator · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I remember seeing on TV a story about the guy that invented the laser, he had drawing of how the thing needed to be built, which was exactly how the HeNe gas lasers were eventaly built, but the PTO refused the patent on the grounds of no prototype, which was techncaly impossible to build at the time. After twenty years of fighting the PTO in court, he eventual won his patent and got a boat load of money, because the patent was effective for the 17 years after being granted, and everybody and his brother was using the things; if the patent was granted at the time of application, he would have gotten zip! Some where between these two extremes is where we need to be.

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