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Mandrake Blocked By XFree86 4.4 License
Linzer writes "A mailing-list message posted by Mandrake Linux's main developer on the Cooker mailing-list states that the development version of the distro is about to revert from XFree86 4.4 to the 4.3 version because of XFree86's recent license change. Mandrake contributors have started asking for justifications from MdkSoft. Many point out features of XF86 4.4 [an 'an open source X11-based desktop infrastructure'] they can't live without, including support for some not so uncommon hardware.
A later Cooker mailing-list post extends a bit on the reasons."
As far as I can tell, all Mandrake would need to do is include the new text in with the rest of the copyright/liscense info and they'd be in compliance? Why is this a big deal? Or is there some subtle legal thing at work?
Too bad they didn't give freedesktop.org people a little more time to develop a viable alternative.
But your point is well taken.
It appears to my uneducated eye that this is a very slight modification which shouldn't make any difference to mandrake beyond the typical publication of copyright notices.
If Mandrake takes it seriously enough to revert to 4.3 I must be wrong? Anyone have an explanation?
Wouldn't a good solution to be what Mozilla did to ensure GPL compatibility? Cross-license XF86 under its own liberal license, the GPL, and the LGPL. This way, companies like mandrake could easily use it under an "approved" license, hassle free. -- What to keep away from dogs
But how is this license change is big problem?
#Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright notice, this list of conditions, and the following disclaimer.
# Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution, and in the same place and form as other copyright, license and disclaimer information.
# The end-user documentation included with the redistribution, if any, must include the following acknowledgment: "This product includes software developed by The XFree86 Project, Inc (http://www.xfree86.org/) and its contributors", in the same place and form as other third-party acknowledgments. Alternately, this acknowledgment may appear in the software itself, in the same form and location as other such third-party acknowledgments.
From the looks of the problematic clauses, it seems that all that needs to be changed is some documentation.
EVERYDAY IS CATURDAY
Trustworthy sources tell me that Red Hat, SuSE, and Debian are reacting similarly. The license change was announced as a fait accompli, and after being urged to reconsider, David Dawes went ahead with it any way.
This might be the sort of thing the freedesktop.org people are talking about when they say XFree86 (the project) doesn't have any accountability to the community. They seem to have a problem working cooperatively with others.
Freedesktop.org not only has a couple of big-name figures from the glory days of X involved (Jim Gettys and Keith Packard), but they also have actively involved various third parties and stakeholders in the X Window System technology -- not just the Linux distributions, but leading developers in GNOME, KDE, and Mozilla to name just a few, and some other people who were kicked out of the XFree86 project.
XFree86 does not seem to have been able to make the transition from the small hobbyist audience that it served in 1993. Maybe David Dawes and the few remaining participants in XFree86 will be happier producing a custom version of the X Window System for themselves and a tiny minority of others. Maybe they didn't lack the skills to be a large community project: just the motivation.
I think Stallman would remind he foresaw this situation many years ago:
The X Windows Trap
If people like you weren't so busy misrepresenting his views you'd see that.
an ill wind that blows no good
First, XFree is an open source, community driven project. Hence, in many distributors eyes is wasn't merely "someone else's graphic system". The real problem was that all of these distributors assumed that XFree would remain GPL-compatible forever. In fact, many of the distributors contributed to the XFree project (see above). Beyond that, XFree was and is the standard, so it was only natural to use it.
XFree's sudden change to their license was a suprise that many people never saw coming.
"Find one who'se license is compatible with your own" is far more efficient.
If you have a BSD-licensed product, you shouldn't feel a need to build your own if you find appropriate BSD-licensed components.
If you have a GPL-licensed product, you shouldn't feel a need to build your own if you find appropriate GPL-licensed components.
If you're making something proprietary, well, I guess yeah, build your own.
I noticed in the first link that they specified that they were remvoing Japanese fonts from Mandrake 10rc1. I happen to use Mandrake because I was impressed with their foreign language support, specifically Japanese. Does anybody know why they are removing Japanese fonts and if there is anything that can be done about it?
freedesktop.org already has replacements for pretty much everything in xfree86. The new license change has just sped up the need for it to work now. They recently released their new xlibs, and Keith Packard is still working on a replacement xserver. The only major problem left is that since the new xserver is a redesign it will need new binary drivers from ati/nvidia.
http://www.freedesktop.org/Software/xserver
>You are still allowed to modify and redistribute the code to your heart's content, as long as you acknowledge the original authors. Wouldn't you want your work acknowledged?
You already broke your idea!
Where's the:
(TM) - This post includes "IP" from Hayes, Inc.?
That's why advertising clauses suck. *EVERYTHING* we know of is a dervative of something. Sometimes it'd be nice, though, because it would force companies like Disney to face the music. But most of the time it sucks because you waste more ink thanking dead people and companies than getting work done.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Can't someone fork the 4.3 version and just continue to use the old license?
From the analysis I've seen in Debian lists, the new license wouldn't really be a problem if it just applied to the Xserver. The problem comes with the X client libraries (xlib and friends) that have to be linked with GPL (and other, the GPL is not the only problem here) programs.
Now, when it comes to the users, most of the new features they want have to do with hardware support, which is an Xserver feature. So it's possible that, as an interim solution, systems could be shipped with the new, ugly-licensed Xserver, but with older-but-sanely-licensed xlibs. This would seem to address everyone's issues fairly well.
I've always felt it was a bit of a mistake to have the client-side and server-side of XFree86 tied together anyway. They are pretty much independent, and I think it might make the most sense for XFree86 to abandon the client side, and just focus on making Xservers, while Freedesktop could ignore the server side (at least for now) and focus on the client libraries. Would make both parties jobs easier.
Who cares? It works well enough. At least it's stable and works.
Windows is no better. MacOS, yes. But is MacOS a Free operating system that runs on any piece-of-shit computer you throw at it? No.
The way I look it is like this: you can fix it, or not use it. Pick one, and stop complaining. Is your post on topic, even? Does it have anything to do with the license? No. Hmm.
BTW, it's fine on my GeForce 4 card. YMMV.
My other car is first.
scripsit Be-Fan:
Test performed with a 2.4 kernel on a stock Debian Sarge box (XF86 4.2.1). Hardware is 1999-vintage PIII/450 with ATI video. Result: Some slight smearing (maybe 0.2- or 0.3-sec lag) dragging Galeon windows over each other.
There's sense in that: I can drag as many xterms, gvim windows, xmms, etc., over each other as I want without a hint of smearing. Only Galeon shows any smearing.
I'll refrain from commenting on the extent to which Qt `rocks', though ;)
In principio creauit Linus Linucem.
Told to me from one of the fdo guys:
In two weeks the Freedesktop.org guys will release X11R6.7.
The short term plan is to use the FDO Xlibs with the OSS XFree driver architecture. This will give compatibility with existing drivers (particularly the binary NVidia / ATI drivers) and many of the features of the fdo X server, apparently including compositing.
Long term, though, there'll be a better driver model, and more communication between the guys writing your X server (fdo) and the vendors (one of the main beefs with XFree86 is that there wasn't much communication with vendors, who often waited up to a year for their drivers to get into XFree).
Ahhh, but the freedesktop X server does not have this problem as the windows are drawn to their own little bit of off-screen RAM and then composited onto each other, thus eliminating the need for application level redraws.
:D
It also means we now have the ability to do TRUE transparency. Soon we will be able to have a movie playing underneith an Xterm at 20% opacity! and finally anti-aliased edjes to our window manager skins