Allnet GPL Infringement Settled Constructively

Elektroschock writes "LWN has coverage of a GPL dispute settled in a constructive manner. Allnet GmbH, German manufacturer and distributor of networking equipment, including switches, routers, NICs and wireless adapters, infringed the GNU Public License of netfilter/iptables. As part of the settlement Allnet GmbH will donate money to tax-exempt not-for-profit organizations, i.e. FSF Europe and FFII. Both organisations lobby for better copyright and patent legislation in Europe."

Comments

Re:Whoopdefuckingdo

[Jackdaw Rookery]

Some of us think that the GPL is a good thing.

Some of us also think that settling things in an amicable way outsdie of the court system can be a good thing.

If you had bothered to read the article you'd also have noticed the following;

"As part of the aggreement, Allnet will make a significant donation to two tax-exempt non-for-profit organizations established under german law"

A good thing. You see now?

How is GPL code valued in damages?

[The Slashdotted]

Acording to LWN, a "significant donation" was made.

How is (a violation of) IPTables valued? Since this was a "donation" under German law, I wonder if the amount is part of the public record. Can any Germans comment?

Re:How is GPL code valued in damages?

[azzy]

I wonder if the donation is tax deductable.

Re:How is GPL code valued in damages?

[kevin_ka]

Yes, you don't have to pay taxes on donaitions to non-for-profit organizations if they have been regonized as publicly beneficial by the tax office.

Re:Cold Spine Shiver

[upside]

Don't worry, we can still turn this into a
- Windows vs Linux
- Linux vs *BSD
- America vs Europe
- Conservative vs Liberal
or
- Everyone vs Mac flamewar

It's nice with good news for a change

[koody]

"We are very happy with the cooperative manner of Allnet in which this issue was resolved and an amicable agreement reached", notes Harald Welte, the Chairman of the Netfilter Core Team. It's really nice to get some good news instead of the average sco cr*p of the GPL being unconstitutional or viral. All this talk about how gpl is a difficult license because it's incompatible with other licenses, and people don't seem to grasp that it's only incompatible with licenses that have more RESTRICTIONS than the gpl, ie if your brand new license v 1.0 has other restrictions besides the ones the gpl accepts, it's quite natural that it will be incompatible. It's like saying, "hey this source is free for you to copy, reproduce but you may never show it to anyone", oh and gpl sucks becuase the fsf say's we're not compatible with their silly little license. Here we see the power of gpl and fsf. It's been said that the gpl is weak because it's never been tested in court. Well maybe there's a reason. Maybe becuase fsf and the open source movement is gaining momentum and companies are trying not to gain new enemies from potential customers. There are still some that do not realize that alienating customers might be bad for business, and that the gpl is a license to adhere to, just as any other license. Take KISS as an example with their way of handling the mplayer debacle, I for one am not going to support kiss-technology.com as long as they maintain their arrogant position. Vote with your wallets, support free software.

Re:It's nice with good news for a change

[cperciva]

people don't seem to grasp that [the GPL is] only incompatible with licenses that have more RESTRICTIONS than the gpl

You seem to misunderstand the GPL. The GPL is not only incompatible with licenses which have *more* restrictions than the GPL; it is incompatible with licenses which have *different* restrictions.

For example, the following license is GPL-incompatible, but it is vastly more free:

Anti-msikvwebasdoiju public license:
1. You may do anything you want with works distributed under this license, except for including them in a software project called "msikvwebasdoiju".

Re:It's nice with good news for a change

[koody]

Actually, I understand the licese just fine. That's why I clarified that "ie if your brand new license v 1.0 has other restrictions besides the ones the gpl accepts" it won't be gpl compatible.

Anti-msikvwebasdoiju public license:
1. You may do anything you want with works distributed under this license, except for including them in a software project called "msikvwebasdoiju". That is an addtional restriction. I cannot really think of a way to write a lisence that would stand true to the ideal of free software, but allow random people to add extra restrictions. Since you seem to be so well versed in (mis)quoting ppl, maybe you can find just such a license for me?

Next time you quote me, could you plaese read the whole of my comment before doing it.

Re:It's nice with good news for a change

[jsebrech]

IANAL, but this is how I understand it works:

The GPL hasn't been tested in court because whenever a company asks their lawyers exactly what the GPL says, they realise that there are two choices (if they actually did use the GPL'd source):

- say the GPL is invalid, which if you win reduces it to a copyright infringement lawsuit, since the GPL is the only thing that allows you to use GPL'd code, and having it declared invalid means you lose all rights to use that code. (Courts really frown on copyright infringement, and this would become a very costly lawsuit to win.)

- say the GPL is valid, and settle.

In other words, the best thing you can do is maintain the status quo (sort of) by settling. Actually going to court makes you lose, even if you win, which is why no one has ever gone to court over it. Not even SCO.

You can say a lot of things about the FSF and the GPL, but you've got to admit it's pretty darn clever.

Re:Cold Spine Shiver

[Elektroschock]

I remind you of SCO's IBM/Linux copyright infringement claims, I remind you you of the validity problems of the GPL.

Don't forget Netfilter.org 'owned Allnet' :-)

The settlement example shows how it is done in 'real business'. No media dirt, no false accusations, no 3 billion$ infringement lawsuits.

Makes you wonder...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do certain companies not research beforehand, that what they are doing is illegal?
Why do people have to resort to things like this, before they complay with the terms of a license?

I know money is a strong factor, but should morals really go out the window?

A company should really research the terms of the license, of a product they are using, but perhaps they just hope that people won't notice...
After all, it is easy money, if no one finds out.

Re:Makes you wonder...

[__aaveti3199]

Perhaps the GPL is perceived by some "free as in beer". The lack of a profit motive for those GPLing their work might make some companies think that they can reuse GPL code without fear of legal let or hindrance. For some GPL may be confused with other less restrictive software licenses that basically allow you to do what you like with the code. Even if this had got to court and the GPL stood up, it would probably have had little impact on the attitude US courts took in the future.

Good News

[Anonymous Coward]

Its good to seea positive outcome come out from this. FSF doesnt have to waste money going to court. and Allnet continues to use the gpl code to further the penetration of open source work into the market. If Allnet did not settle they wouldve been crushed when common copyright law came down on them like a tonne of bricks.

Constructive?

[cperciva]

Lawyers file lawsuit. Lawyers settle lawsuit, with defendant agreeing to donate money to lawyers. How is this constructive?

Rather than giving money to the FSF, why not give money to groups which write free software?

Re:Constructive?

[Veridium]

"Rather than giving money to the FSF, why not give money to groups which write free software?"

I think giving the money to the FSF Europe is a better idea, as it benefits a much wider group of Free software developers. From their website:

The FSF Europe supports, coordinates and develops projects in the Free Software area, especially the GNU Project.

It also provides computer resources to Free Software developers to enable them to continue their developments.

The FSF Europe helps companies to develop business models based on Free Software or fit existing models to it; it encourages companies in their evolution to Free Software.

To make it easier for companies based on Free Software to be commercially successful, the FSF Europe also seeks to broaden the market for Free Software.

The FSF Europe helps coordinating and networking other initiatives in the Free Software area.

Re:Constructive?

[Elektroschock]

FSF Europe is NOT FSF.

Free Software Forundation Europe, that's Georg Greve and the European crowd, no zelots that force you to call your operating system GNU/linux. They are well respected European lobbyists. Money spent on EU lobbying saves a lot for projects. For instance the EU IPR enforcement directive may be very dangerous for EU citizens that 'just write code'.

And FFII is probably the most succesful player in patent legislation over the past 30 years. Patent attorney made their own laws for a long time.

Re:Constructive?

[arrianus]

I would like to point out that the FSF is also not a bunch of zealots. RMS is the founder, but it is run by a lot of people. Even if you don't like RMS (although a lot of the reason he's been marginalized stems from ESR badmouthing him/exaggarating his problems, rather than RMS himself), they are a big organization. Most of the other head honchos over the FSF are quite amazing.

Eben Moglen (the chief counsel of the FSF, law professor at Columbia) is extremely reasonable, competent and friendly. He is a brilliant lawyer and an excellent public speaker. You should go to one of his talks at some point -- I cannot overemphasize how good he is. A large number of the FSF charity events are headed by him for precisely that reason. Heck, try reading some of his writings.

Gerry Sussman is President of the FSF. He is one of MIT's top professors. He is the creator of the Scheme programming language, the guy who proved the motion of the solar system is chaotic, and is responsible for dozens of other similar breakthroughs in computer science, math, physics, and electronics. He is brilliant, but also one of the nicest, most reasonable guys I know.

I've met both. I can assure you neither of these guys could be described as a zealot, or anything close to a zealot.

It is very unfair to characterize the FSF simply by one man, even if he is the founder. The FSF is very good at what it does. RMS is one piece of the equation, and acts as a sort of moral compass for the organization as a whole (and his morals are indisputable, although you may argue with his tactics or interpersonal skills). However, people like Eben and Gerry handle many of the FSF's operations, and they do their jobs competently, and exceedingly well.

When does FSF publish its GPL enforcement cases?

[replicant_deckard]

FSF has said they will later publish some statistics from 'GPL compliance lab' like a number of GPL infringement cases they have so far settled out of courts. I guess there must be plenty of them already all over the world. For some unknown reason they have already given more GPL enforcement information in their _proprietary_ seminar tagged for hunders of bucks... free as in freedom, not as in...

Good vs. Bad

[Talisman]

Think of it as a capital shift from the Bad Lawyers to the Good Lawyers, that in the process establishes a legal precedent for future GPL cases.

Not all lawyers are bad, ya know...

Tal

Hey!

[AlXtreme]

You forgot emacs vs vim!

Damn kids these days, they just don't know how to start a proper flamewar...

Re:Hey!

[kfg]

Of course, on the system *I* administrate, vi is symlinked to ed.
Emacs has been replaced by a shell script which 1) Generates a syslog
message at level LOG_EMERG; 2) reduces the user's disk quota by 100K;
and 3) RUNS ED!!!!!!

Ed is for those who can *remember* what they are working on. If you
are an idiot, you should use Emacs. If you are an Emacs, you should
not be vi. If you use ED, you are on THE PATH TO REDEMPTION. THE
SO-CALLED "VISUAL" EDITORS HAVE BEEN PLACED HERE BY ED TO TEMPT THE
FAITHLESS. DO NOT GIVE IN!!! THE MIGHTY ED HAS SPOKEN!!!

--Patrick J. LoPresti

KFG

Re:GPL and Windows source

[Anonymous Coward]

I've grepped the source code for Linux, BSD and a few other terms. The word Linux does appear a few times but after checking through it's nothing too bad AFAIR. I've also grepped for "BUGBUG" - which appears to be MS' way of denoting bugs ;).

Not really had much time to do any more in-depth checking. One interesting thing - they have chmod (etc) utilities in their tools directory.

Wrong link, AllNET, not AllTECH

[Anonymous Coward]

The link to Allnet is wrong in a way which suggests that it's spam. The correct link is http://www.allnet.de/.

Re:What am I missing here.

[colinleroy]

I guess they asked every netfilter developer if they agreed with this settlement, and they did.

GPL be damned.

[OverlordQ]

I'd be much happier if companies were forced to release good, unhindered specs/APIs... I don't care if you didn't give out your specific implementation, fine... whatever... but give me the means to create my own implementation that can function the same as theirs. Is that soo much to ask?

Re:What am I missing here.

[Elektroschock]

Netfilter was one party, All* the other party.

The agreed on a settlement, All* could hav donated to the Red Cross or whatever.

Netfilter's Harald Welte is a German, All* Gmbh is a German company and they chose two orgs that are tax exempted.

It is private law. US/EU/ ecc. is not affected by this. Not your rights were infrigend but the rights of netfilter.

"asked to put money in a company only working in the US"

-- >these are NGOs, off-topic.

The GPL appears in the most peculiar places...

[blorg]

For example, there was a copy of the GPL in the box with the last projector I bought (a Panasonic PT-AE200E). One of the features of this projector is projecting digital photos straight off an SD card, and it appears that the slideshow software used was released under the GPL. I wonder how long it will be before we see copies of the GPL arriving with new microwave ovens?

Re:The GPL appears in the most peculiar places...

[ProudClod]

Yeah, my netgear router came with a card linking to source downloads for the innards, due to the GPL. Good to see people care.

Re:Cold Spine Shiver

[Elektroschock]

* windows vs. linux

Well, IPtables is part of the Linux Kernel.

* Linux vs. *BSD

Under a BSD license Alltechs action wopuld be legal.

* America vs. Europe

In America it would have been a campaign like SCo's. Stallman cries loud echoed by 200 mailing lists As Alltech "stole Linux" Alltech must be owned by Linus. A German world conpiracy, a takeover of the internet backbone
the press writes, the case show the legal incertainties of the GPL. No 3 billion$ as Alltech does not have three billion.

* conservative vs. liberal

I am conservative, I like liberal licenses

* everyone vs. MAC

humm, Mac do hav a license? How is the Mac Eula of this proprietary platform called. :-)

Re:Bad news

[DarkDust]

Paying big bucks (euros in this case) makes one immune from GPL infringment claims. What the shame ...

FUD-alert ! Allnet did not just donate money to several organisations but also agreed to release their modifications under GPL and to work with iptables together in the future. So they agreed to comply with the GPL, release their code under GPL, work with the iptables team together and additionally donate some money. Which is good news, IMHP !

TBH

[WillAtMH]

I have to admit, when companies act like this in the face of adversity it makes me want to buy their stuff.