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Mars Rovers Update

BoldAC writes "CNN is reporting that engineers will upload a software hack to decrease the recent power drain plaguing the rover Opportunity. The hack works by reducing the power supply to a poorly functioning switch." p3tersen writes "Opportunity has photographed a blue martian sunset (it's blue because of the optical scattering properties of dust in the martian atmosphere). In other news, the rovers are beginning to experience power supply problems due to the accumulation of dust on their solar panels."

24 of 320 comments (clear)

  1. Solar problems by LotsaCaffeine · · Score: 5, Interesting

    NASA should have installed wiper blades on the solar panels.

    1. Re:Solar problems by r00zky · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A thread attached to a corner of every plastic sheet running diagonally to the opposite corner and an electric motor that activates when the sheet is dirty.
      Stack 10 sheets of this and voila, lifetime of the rover multiplied x10.

      --
      I'm a chainsmokin' alcoholic sociopath, so-ci-o-path
    2. Re:Solar problems by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 3, Interesting
      You are kidding for sure.

      Say, a step motor and some mechanical jiggery-pokery ending with a stiff wire, a hook on its end, the layers would have tabs with holes in them to pull at.

      Or.. a glue between layers that deteriorates on contact with Martian athmosphere and so the layers will peel off after a fixed (based on chemistry) time.

      I mean, give me a break, those took less then 10 seconds to come up with and I am sure NASA engineers could have thought up much more effective methods.

    3. Re:Solar problems by hottoh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I understood Nasa to say 'wiper blades' would not be effective due to the nature of the fine dust chemically sticking to the surface of the solar cells. Mechanical sweeping does not solve the real problem of the dust sticking to the solar panel.

      Just a guess based on Nasa commentary is the batteries will fail before the solar panels fail to charge them.

    4. Re:Solar problems by ModernViking · · Score: 5, Interesting

      First, my credentials. I have worked on the field trials of the FIDO rover. It is the science test bed for the MER rovers that has been tested in various parts of the western United States over the past 6 years.

      There have been many ideas tested for the solar panels, including removable plastic coverings, wiper blades, etc. None of them have proven practical. The dust on Mars is extremely fine and electrostatically charged. It sticks to the panels , and every other surface, amazingly well. Figuring out a way to remove Martian dust from surfaces is a field that a lot of thought and experiment has gone into, without discovering any feasible solutions, so far.

      During the Pathfinder Mission in 1997, it was found that, by driving the rover over 'large' rocks (large for the rover), some of the larger dust can be shaken off. This is, as I've heard from members of the engineering team, something they intend to try with the MER rovers when needed. It doesn't make a huge improvement, on the order of a couple percent, but every little bit helps.

    5. Re:Solar problems by torpor · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Put the solar array on a vibrator, tilt the rover slightly, and give the solar panel array 15 minutes of shaking at some appropriate Hertz... oila, dust is shaken off.

      --
      ; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
    6. Re:Solar problems by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 5, Interesting
      A vibrator? Might work although probably could be destructive...

      Hmm, after another 15 minutes of mental effort: a thin brush on an arm mounted to the side of the camera mast. You lower the (very thin and light single file brush) with a small step motor to the horizontal position and then you rotate the camera mast to create a sweeping motion on the panels. You could brush the 2 side panels that way, since if you planned for it, there would be no portruding gear to get in the way of the brush (all such gear would be back of the mast).

      And so on...

      I am really flabbergasted why there is absolutely no provision for any sort of cleaning (even a partial one) on the rovers. Its not like this wasnt expected. I smell some sort of hidden agenda in shortening the life of the rovers.

    7. Re:Solar problems by deglr6328 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Can you say more about why specifically the peel off transparent plastic idea was rejected(it seems to be the simplest, most effective, non-single point failure prone, most elegant solution I've seen so far)? I know all these speculative posts seem tedious and redundant, it's just that it seems like such a shame to allow the mission life of the rovers to be so severly shortened by such an apparently trivial problem.(it's just a little dust!! :o)

      --
      - "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
    8. Re:Solar problems by Senjutsu · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Which would repel all the dust of the same charge, but attract the rest. Plus you've added the possibility that something could short across this wire grid and drain the battery real quick.

    9. Re:Solar problems by mnmn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Here are some ideas I'm sure have been considered:

      (1) Vibration.... the panels are lifted sideways and a motor at the top vibrates them for a few minutes. This will cost(1) the vibration motor (2) the lifting motor (3) lifting arm and hinges.

      (2) Clapping two solar panels together.

      (3) Compressed air. This is my fav. A small cylinder onboard could blow air across the panels about 10 times... increasing the life of the rovers 10 times. If theres enough gas in the atmosphere, replace the cylinder with a compressor. Its mechanically easy, less risk, and with a tiny compressor will add just a tiny bit of weight.

      (4) Wiper blades. The blades will have feathers on them like a feather duster.

      (5) Rotating panels. The panels would be disc-shaped and are rotated real fast like a CD to shake off the dust.

      (6) Flippin panels. Turn the panels upside down for a little while. Optionally, jerk them.

      (7) Roller film. Unlike camera film, one loop of film covers the panel and two axels at the panel ends loops the film around. Small brushes at one end will keep cleaning the film.

      (8) Driving into rocks. The rover can tilt its panel forward facing and drive into a large rock with a bumper. That way the martians wouldnt think much of our intelligence and cancel the invasion.

      (9) Tiny micro-rovers built by MIT undergrads to wander over the panels cleaning it. The micro-rovers will themselves have connectors to recharge. I'm thinking 2mm^2. Tricycle-shaped with a trailing brush.

      (10) Drive over a high dune just before losing power. That way when theres a wind storm, enough dust will be blown away to allow the rover to communicate with the satellite. Hopefully, most of the dust will be blown away.

      Some of the above ideas were taken from other posters. I believe they could have been used to build a rover that could in theory work forever.

      --
      "Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
  2. Fan by RetroGeek · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Is there some reason why these rovers do not have a fan to blow away the accumutating dust on the solar panels?

    The weight penalty should be offset by being able to work longer.

    Or is the dust sticky? Maybe something akin to a wiper?

    --

    - - - - - - - - - - -
    I am a programmer. I am paid to produce syntax not grammar. Deal with it.
    1. Re:Fan by goon+america · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Doesn't one of their robot arms have a brush device for brushing off rocks? Couldn't they use that?

  3. Re:Java problems? by KewlPC · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Java is only used on the ground. They'd be stupid to use it in the flight software.

    That isn't a slight against Java. It's just that they need real-time software, which can't be had with an interpreted language (even if it is only interpreted from bytecode).

    How fast do you think a 20mhz processor could run a Java app?

  4. This just in from Saturn by blamanj · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A nice photo from the Cassini mission.

  5. Seasonal changes by Dan+East · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The blurb fails to mention that seasonal changes on mars are resulting in less sunlight per sol. That is one of the main power issues.

    Dan East

    --
    Better known as 318230.
  6. The Martian Dust by Chris+Tucker · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The big problem is that the dust is so fine, it'd be very difficult to wipe it off with anything akin to a windshield wiper. You might remove the dust, but the grit would scratch the glass, eventually causing enough opacity that the panels would eventually be rendered useless.

    One thought I had was to gradually apply a charge to the solar panels and then suddenly apply an opposite charge, causing the dust to be repelled from the surface, to be carried away by the Martian winds.

    I've no idea if it would actually work or not, but it seemed an elegant solution that didn't require any moving parts.

    --
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    1. Re:The Martian Dust by Scorillo47 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      >>> The big problem is that the dust is so fine, it'd be very difficult to wipe it off with anything akin to a windshield wiper. You might remove the dust, but the grit would scratch the glass, eventually causing enough opacity that the panels would eventually be rendered useless.

      Probably using a vaccum would not damage the glass. Although this approach also adds more complexity...

      >>> One thought I had was to gradually apply a charge to the solar panels and then suddenly apply an opposite charge, causing the dust to be repelled from the surface, to be carried away by the Martian winds.

      Unfortunately this will not work since the electrical charge is not uniformy applied in only one direction on the surface glass. The small irregularities of the surface will cause a variation in the electrical distribution over time - for example a small peak in the glass might be more positively charged compared with inner of a nearly-located scratch. The same thing happens on some dust particles - due to their free movement in the air, their electrical distribution will end up non-uniform as well. So they will end up attracting as magnets - the small peak will attract particles on their negative-charged part, and the scratch will do the same on positively-charged surfaces. Now, since all these materials are good electrical insulators, the non-uniform distribution will stick on for a long time.

      Probably what would help is to use a blower that would wipe off the dust with martian air. The blown air needs to be ionized to prevent more electrostatic charge to add up by just blowing. The ionized air will have a weak electrical conductivity which will tend to "shortcut" the charged areas. Now, since the martian air is mostly CO2 this pre-ionization process shouldn't require too high voltages - the energy consumption would be pretty low...

      --
      Don't try to use the force. Do or do not, there is no try.
    2. Re:The Martian Dust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The sad problem is that solar panels aren't necessary at all. A little nuclear reactor and you're off and running for as long as you want. Not very PC tho.

  7. The whole solar thing... by Paddyish · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I have a bunch of questions about this stuff.

    Why did NASA stray from 'nuclear' batteries, like they've used with the Pioneer, Galileo, Voyager and Cassini missions? Those could power a rover for years.

    And what's stopping them from making a way to keep the panels clear? This is what contributed to the end of the Pathfinder mission...What is it about solutions to this problem that make them so difficult to implement?

    Wipers add an extra mechanical system to worry about, but what about static fields? Maybe there could be a way to attract the dust to a specific area while keep the the panels clear?

    1. Re:The whole solar thing... by vbdrummer0 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      One suspects that NASA decided to go solar because of the potential disaster to be had if there was a 'mishap' during launch and radioactive material went everywhere in the upper atmosphere. Public protest against putting nuclear fuel on top of a controlled bomb grew steadily over the years, to the point that, if I recall correctly, Cassini hardly got off the ground due to some people protesting it. Probably, there wouldn't be much of a problem, but better safe than sorry (especially when you're funded by taxpayers).

      And I'll give the NASA geeks the benefit of the doubt that if there were a reliable and cost-effective wy of cleaning the solar panels, they would have implemented it long ago.

  8. Concerning charged particles... by dirt_puppy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You can't blow them off with opposite charge easily. These particles stick to the (non-conducting) surface probably because of Influence. If the surface would be conducting they wouldn't stick because they would get discharged. This is similar to the dust particles that adhere to CRT screens, just here its the screen thats charged (by constant electron bombardement) and the dust particles get influenced. The fact that the surface is non-conducting will also hinder you bringing any kind of charge to it. Another problem is that the charge might be randomly generated and so half positive and half negative, so you could only blow off half of the dust. There is a possibility of making transparent surfaces conducting (coating them with metal films), but this reduces transparency quite a bit, and I suppose the mechanical properties of a metal film are far inferior to whatever they used (you want this surface to be hard).

  9. electrostatic dust by dpilot · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Arthur C. Clarke wrote a story reminiscent of this, set on the moon. Two explorers in a dusty area, and some of the dust sticks to their faceplates. Wiping the dust off builds electrostatic charge, attracting more dust, so they're soon blind.

    ***SPOILER ALERT*** (and suggestion)

    Since rubbing causes static electicity, they rub their faceplates together. One charges one polarity, the other the opposite. So one faceplate comes out even dustier, the other clean. The explorer with the clean faceplate can lead the other back to the vehicle.

    Actually I always though static electricity came from rubbing dissimilar materials, so I wouldn't expect rubbing two identical-material faceplates to do squat. But there may be a lesson here. If the primary problem is really electrostatic, might there be some sort of electrostatic solution? (on future rovers) The most extreme would be an ion-wind generator with the 'benign' (dustwise) polarity attached to the panel. Another might be a charged wiper blade. I'm sure there could be other simpler electrostatic-based solutions.

    --
    The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
  10. They don't want long life for rovers by Katz_is_a_moron · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Ok, hear me out.

    Cost aside, there most likely is a way to greatly extend the life of a rover.

    From the noises NASA has been making, there will be a series of unmanned missions to Mars before an attempt to send humans will be made (I don't necessarily agree with the premise of sending humans to Mars).

    NASA has said the limiting factor is power, because of the dust accumulation on the solar panels.

    Let's say that the cost of implementing a way to eliminate the dust doubled the cost of the mission (probably would be less). If dust were eliminated, then the rovers could operate until the batteries could not longer hold a sufficient charge to do science.

    What I'm getting at here is politics. A solution could be engineered to greatly extend the life of the rovers. But that would result in a reduced number of missions and *less funding*.

    Ok, I've removed my tinfoil hat. Comments?

  11. Re:As nice as it would be... by grozzie2 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    An interesting fact is that the cost of operating the entire mission is around US$ 3m a day,

    There are 2 types of cost involved in this daily figure, those that are 'out of pocket' and those that are 'just accounting'. Take for example, the DSN time used to retrieve data from the rovers. Yes, it's very expensive I'm sure, those deep space monitoring stations cannot be cheap to build and operate. Every hour they spend pointed at mars collecting data from the MER vehicles is surely tracked, and cost accounted to the MER program, and rightfully so. BUT, it's not like they wouldn't cost anything if they were not pointed at the mars probes, the actual cost of operating the DSN system is for all practical purposes a known and fixed cost, and it's gonna be paid, no matter where they are pointed. This is why I'd call that portion of the daily cost 'just accounting', because the taxpayer is going to foot the bill for the deep space network, regardless of where it's pointed. But, when it's pointed at mars, the mars programs are being accounted as the 'cost', and rightfully so.

    While the rovers are on active surface mission, there are a lot of extra people hanging around jpl, and i'm sure most of them are 'rather expensive' to keep on hand. this type of expense is 'out of pocket', it's an expense that wouldn't be happening if the rovers were not on surface mission. My own guess offhand is that the 3 million a day is probably half and half, one half true 'out of pocket' expenses, and the other half just accounting for equipment/personnel that would be on hand anyways, but are currently involved in the MER program. For the sake of easy math tho, I'm gonna suggest 1 mill is 'accounting' and 2 mill is 'real cost'.

    Now take a look at the overall value proposition. the entire program is running in the 850 million range, and it's targetted for 2 rovers on surface, for 90 days each. That's 180 science days for a total cost of 850 million, or 4.72 million per active rover science day, as per mission parameters. this was the value proposition of the original mission, and the mission(s) were launched on this basis.

    Now that surface operations are in progress, the daily burn rate is 3 million, for 2 rovers on surface. If a million of that is stuff like accounting for dsn time, then 2 million is the actual 'out of pocket' expense, or approximately 1 million per rover science day. this is 21% of the projected overall cost per day of science returned on the original budget.

    The up front cost of placing the equipment on the surface of mars has been absorbed, and is planned to amortize over the first 90 days on surface. After 90 days, it becomes a simple value proposition. The 'real cost' of maintaining full operations earthside is 21% of the original budget. In terms of the 'accounting costs' for things like the dsn time, it's the same type of value proposition. The dsn network WILL be kept busy, it's simply a case of determining where there is more value. The 70 meter dish can point out at voyageur and get engineering data from the deep space probe (which will still be there in another 2 months), or it can point at mars, and take advantage of the 'limited time offer' of recieving martian data at 79% discount off the 'full retail' price that was paid for the first 90 days of surface time.

    This is a large project, with lots of accounting involved, and surely there's more than its fair share of 'pork' buried in the 850 million price tag. BUT, it's real right now, and the real cost of retrieving a day of data from a single rover is in the range of $1 million. Considering the 'full retail' price for that runs 4.72 million after you amortize in all the launch costs etc, this is one time when a significant budget overrun due to 'extended surface time' is an absolute bargain.

    This is kind of a double edged sword though. A design life of 90 days means there is budget for 90 days of operation. An overrun of 90 days on operational time represents a huge value proposition for