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Looking for a Better Back-Up Power Solution?

ThisIsFred asks: "I maintain a small network (about 1500 users, 9 servers in four locations), and happen to be in an area where the power company's quality of service could be better. Reliability has been slowly improving over the past few years, but we still experience dozens of outages during the course of the year. Unfortunately, all of our un-interruptible power supplies give in after about two years of service, regardless of the brand I buy. I have stacks of lead-acid batteries waiting to get hauled away by a subcontractor licensed to dispose of hazardous materials. This is an expensive service, my employer doesn't want to allocate funds for it every two years. I don't like having to give up space for the storage of dead batteries, and I don't like wasting my time replacing them. Should my employer be responsible for the disposal fees? Shouldn't vendors selling new UPS units be legally required to take back old batteries, like with auto batteries? And what sort of solution should I be looking at that is lower maintenance? Currently I am using smaller, standalone units (1400 VA), because it is really hard for me to secure the funds for something more expensive. I'd like to see what other folks do. I trust examples based on Slashdot's real experience more than some vendor's sales pitch. I need to put together a good argument for the next budget review."

13 of 67 comments (clear)

  1. Hauled away? Battery stores must accept by jcwren · · Score: 3, Informative

    I don't know how many batteries you have, but here in Georgia, battery distributors (Voltex, Interstate, etc) are *required* to accept batteries for disposal, at no charge. In fact, at places like Sears, they charge you a core charge if you don't bring a battery in. Something like $7.

    You might have to pay someone to haul them to the distributor, but that's just a labor charge.

  2. Options by linuxwrangler · · Score: 4, Informative
    First, your employer will be responsible for the fees. They may be charged up-front as an included part of the cost (and hope the company is still around when you need to dispose of the batteries) or they will be charged at the end.

    Second, some manufacturers do take back the battery. APC includes a pre-paid UPS return for spent batteries. I don't know if it's true for every battery they sell but it is for all I've looked at.

    Third, many recyclers take batteries. My city recycling center has a place to recycle lead-acid batteries for free.

    Remember that deep-discharging is very hard on lead-acid. If you only need to prevent data loss then set up a quick auto shutdown on the UPS protected machines. If you need long run time consider an extended-run UPS with a large enough battery that they don't end up deep discharging. (I know, they won't spring for the $$$)

    Alternately, get some sort of generator that fits your situation so the UPS is only running a short time and not deep discharging. (I know, they won't spring for the $$$)

    You may want to review the OSHA and environmental laws - not to be a whistle blower but just to point out the potential risk of keeping stacks of dead lead-acid batteries around. We have to include ours on an annual report to the city.

    Although you (or most likely "they") won't like the answers all you can do is document the frequency of power failure, the resulting annual costs, backup options and associated costs and any relevant regulations of which you are aware. (I just found out we had to add a backup battery to our PBX due to an employment regulation requiring access to 911 even in a power outage.)

    They may not decide (their job based on your input combined with other knowledge) to give you what you want but you will have done your job.

    --

    ~~~~~~~
    "You are not remembered for doing what is expected of you." - Atul Chitnis
  3. Damn, I recycle them for cash by way2trivial · · Score: 3, Informative
    Around here, they pay for Lead Acid batteries at recycling yards..

    I filled my truck bed, drove 30 miles, and got $40.00.. (paid for my gas and lunch and a bit more to boot)

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
    1. Re:Damn, I recycle them for cash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I also know of a recycle center that will give me $1 for each lead acid battery that I take in, regardless of what kind.

      My advice, start contacting recycle centers. Lead Acid batteries are worth money and you should not pay to have them disposed of. I am sure that the disposal company that you pay just sells them to a recycle center.

  4. That may not be an option by Tau+Zero · · Score: 2, Informative
    Remember that deep-discharging is very hard on lead-acid.
    So is chronic over-charging, which depletes the electrolyte. The UPS mfgr has no real motive to optimize the charging systems (hey, if they sell more UPSs when people only need new batteries, they make more money) and it is contrary to the purpose of a UPS to cycle the battery at intervals to determine capacity.

    What you might want for this is external batteries. More on this in another post, maybe.

    --
    Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
  5. Clue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

    You can't de-sulfate a gel cell. Or any other kind of SLA (sealed lead-acid) battery, for that matter.

  6. UPS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I remember seeing some UPS's that didn't use batteries, they used a rotating mass to store energy. I don't remember who made them or how good they worked but do remember seeing them in a catalog. I'm sure a little googling with the right keywords would return something.

  7. Retrofit to external batteries by Tau+Zero · · Score: 4, Informative
    I don't know what you're paying for new batteries (presumably the same gray rectangular things with the tab connectors which are so common in other hardware such as emergency exit lamps), but you may be able to get cheaper.

    Trolling/deep cycle batteries are available retail for rather reasonable sums. Some of them are sealed, but some are not; a non-sealed battery allows you to check it for water level and state of charge (via the specific gravity of the electrolyte). Plus, they usually offer several times the AH rating of the little gray things (good if outages may be extended). The UPS will feed quite nicely from most any 12-volt DC source.

    If you decide to hook up something like this, you'll have three issues:

    1. Cabling and connectors will have to be anti-chafed, fused, and otherwise protected in ways that the monolithic UPS box takes care of for you. Did I mention that you get to build this?
    2. The battery chemistry is similar but the actual charging requirements may differ; you are going to have to watch the battery state of charge yourself. (On the plus side, if the batteries are external to the UPSs you can just rotate batteries out every so often.)
    3. Most significant: a UPS modified to use external batteries is no longer UL certified, and may not be legal to use in your situation.

    It's up for you to research and present to your boss for a decision. I have a little UPS which had dead batteries and the honkin' hunka lead that I hooked up in their place carried me nicely through last August's blackout, but your results may differ.
    --
    Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening at once... the bitch.
    1. Re:Retrofit to external batteries by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 2, Informative

      Forklift batteries have extraordinary lifetimes. They're also expensive. Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) batteries are a good compromise on life-cycle cost.

      The oversimplified rules of getting good battery life are
      o Don't deep-cycle anything but a deep-cycle battery
      o Don't overcharge them
      o Don't leave them undercharged for any length of time.

      The safety rules are non-negotiable:
      o Don't charge a non-sealed battery indoors
      o Fuse the leads AT the battery terminals
      o Don't leave exposed terminals where a tool or piece of jewelry can fall or slip on them.

  8. Yet another problem waiting to happen... by stienman · · Score: 4, Informative

    The reason you are having these troubles is not only is your boss uninformed, but, apparently, so are you. Let me give you some information which will help you understand the problems you are having.

    Lead acid batteries, as a general rule, only provide 50% of their capacity before destroying themselves trying to meet your needs. UPS's are emergency power sources ONLY. If you are using them to power stuff through power outages lasting more than a minute or two more than once or twice a year, then you are not using them correctly. If you use them until you drain the battery past 50% then the batteries are going to DIE horrible creeping death.

    Furthermore, if you overburden a UPS and it doesn't shut down because you're pulling too much amperage you may end up boiling the battery, which does not only reduce its life significantly, but "Vents With Flame" (to put it mildly).

    In your situation, UPSs can ONLY be used to keep the power on long enough to power off the servers/workstations (ie, less than a minute, maybe two) or until an external generator kicks in.

    Again let me reiterate.

    UPSs are NOT "Powers out. Hope it comes on before the UPS runs out."

    UPSs are instead "OH @#$%! THE POWER'S GONE! [SHUT EVERYTHING DOWN | START THE GENERATOR]!!!"

    Therefore if your boss does not understand the necessity of a generator, then you must convince him to purchase UPSs that are rated to last at least twice as long as you could possibly leave the computers on after the power goes out. Ideally you'll also get UPSs which are rated at twice the current you might be pulling so you don't heat up the battery while you are shutting down (a power hungry operation for most servers: shutting down)

    Lastly, concerning waste. Most battery centers accept and recycle old lead acid batteries for free. Check out batteriesplus.com for locations near you of a company I use and trust. Buy your replacements from them and they'll gladly recycle your old ones. Even if you don't purchase from them they generally accept them anyway.

    Do a cost/performance analysis on a generator. Tell them that batteries last twice as long (or longer) if you use them properly and get a generator. Show them that it's probably cheaper to get appropiately sized UPS unit(s) and a generator than it is to buy a bunch of small UPSs and no generator. Also demonstrate how it will benefit your customers, and how this should be sold to them.

    So. Accept this wisdom, and go forth and spread the word. Good luck.

    -Adam

  9. Still requires a UPS... by Kevin+Burtch · · Score: 2, Informative


    You still have to have a UPS to cover the time between the power outage and the time the generators are spooled up and producing power.

    --
    - Preferences: Solaris 10 (servers), Ubuntu (desktops), Solaris 11 (personal servers) -
  10. What we're doing... by OneFix · · Score: 4, Informative

    We are going to install a backup generator that runs off of natural gas. Here's a link to one...

    We are of course going with a different company and generator, but it gives you an idea of price and features. $3500 might be too much for your situation. Keep in mind that you will still want to keep your UPSs in place (for the ~1-3 minutes that these things take to get up to speed)...

    But, if you must have power to all of your systems, all of the time, a natural gas generator is probably the way to go. Before you do any of this, you will want to check out how much power you are actually using and how big of a generator you will need...the one linked to should be enough for the 9 servers you need as well as room to upgrade...

    As you can tell, most of the natural gas generators also take propane, which is still good if you don't get natural gas service, or as a backup for the natural gas...

  11. battery maintenance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    At some point, a rack of well maintained lead-acid batteries is going to become more economical than throwing out sealed units every two years. For info on battery maintenance, see http://www.usbr.gov/power/data/fist/fist3_6/3_6_co nt.htm