Epson's Female Printer

Completely misses the point! by dartmouth05 · 2004-03-16 08:18 · Score: 5, Insightful

This completely misses the point!

The studies showed dissatisfaction with the way that electronics were marketed towards men. Women said that they were treated differently, and in many cases, were assumed to be stupid or unknowledgable, compared to men. Brenda Myers, quoted in the CNN article that the slashdot link in the parent links to, said, "Every time you go these places [national electronics retail stores], they think women don't know anything, and they don't you the same features as they would when my husbands goes with me."

Creating a printer that will be marketed under the theme "printer easy for women to use" is not going to mollify complaints like Myers, instead, it seems to reinforce her argument that electronics retailers and manufacturers think women are stupid. Saying that this printer is easy for women to use is really just saying is that women aren't capable of using all the other printers.

Re:Completely misses the point! by Doesn't_Comment_Code · 2004-03-16 08:28 · Score: 4, Insightful

I agree. This isn't the first instance of such a campaign and it probably won't be the last time you see something like it. I've seen it take many forms from targetting women to minorities to old people. The whole thing is just rediculous.

The only thing I want from a marketer are specs - not pictures of happy people using the product, not warm fuzzy slogans, and certainly not a message that their product was designed for me specifically... or for "the rest of us."

Specs please. What does it do. What doesn't it do. How much does it cost. Thank you.

--

Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
Re:Completely misses the point! by Servo · 2004-03-16 08:33 · Score: 5, Insightful

Are all men at a higher level of technical proficiency? It has nothing to do with actual abilities, it has to do with sexism. Guys automatically assume women don't know what they are doing, but when we go to talk to another guy, we are more apt to give them the benefit of the doubt.

--
A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may never get over. -Benjamin Franklin
Re:Completely misses the point! by RealityMogul · 2004-03-16 08:40 · Score: 5, Insightful

Those marketing types are completely sexist. I for one think that men and women consumers are equally stupid when it comes to technology and treat them accordingly. I'm an EOE (equal opportunity elitist) when it comes to these matters.

If corporations want to market products to consumers in general, they should steal a 20 year old idea from Apple and make everything only have one button. But don't make it light-up when it's pressed or someone will think it's a night light and call tech support and complain their printer only works when its dark out.
Re:Completely misses the point! by Dutchmaan · 2004-03-16 08:42 · Score: 5, Insightful

I have to say that some women give other women a bad name. My mother wants to get a computer but thinks she is too stupid to buy one. Now my mother is in fact not stupid at all and I actually have to argue with her that she is smart enough to learn computing..

When she walks into a store and says "I don't know what kind of RIM or ROM it needs" I can easily see how salespeople would develop an impression that women in general are not that bright when it comes to computers. In actuality, women IMHO don't mind not knowing something and asking to be informed where as a man wouldn't be caught dead not knowing what the hell he is talking about..
Re:Completely misses the point! by ctr2sprt · 2004-03-16 08:53 · Score: 4, Insightful

Sexism is when you make a judgment based not on reason, but on a person's gender. We in agreement so far? So if you have a logical argument for a judgment, even if that judgment relates to people of a specific gender, then it's not sexism.
The logical argument here is real simple. The first people to get involved in computers were men. They made stuff other men would want. It's a feedback loop now, and it discourages female involvement.
And actually, as it happens, I assume that everyone I talk to knows nothing about computers. A person's age has far more to do with it than a person's sex. So when you say "we" (as in "we go to talk to another guy" and "we are more apt") I sure hope you aren't talking about all men, though that's certainly what it looks like.
Re:Completely misses the point! by Inebrius · 2004-03-16 09:01 · Score: 2, Insightful

It isn't a matter of all men being one way or all women being another.

The generalization is that men, on average, are more technically minded than women. When selling in volume, you go with what will be correct 8 out of 10 times.

I doubt this has anything to do with biology. Women are just as capable as men, they just don't (in general) have as much interest.

Things, however, are changing
Re:Completely misses the point! by Grishnakh · 2004-03-16 09:07 · Score: 4, Insightful

One big thing I see everyone missing here is the part about women shopping at "[national electronics retail stores]". This is their first mistake right away. If you go buy a TV at one of these places, like Circuit City, Fry's, or worst of all, Best Buy, you're confronted with an annoying, know-it-all, moronic, pimply-faced 17-year-old kid who treats you like an idiot, no matter what sex you are. Of course, they probably treat women even worse since men are usually more assertive and less tolerant of 17-year-old kids. But the bottom line is that the salespeople these stores hire are not employed there because of their sales and customer service skills, or because of their technical knowledge. They're employed there because they're willing to work for minimum wage.

So what makes anyone think these idiotic sales droids should be turned to for buying computer equipment, which is significantly more complex?

If people (men or women) want to be treated better when they shop for stuff, they should stop shopping at stores that use minimum-wage employees for their front-line sales staff. Of course, this won't happen because Americans want everything as cheaply as possible, which is why the big-box stores do so well, and making products to cater to specific groups isn't going to change this situation at all.
Re:Completely misses the point! by JonKatzIsAnIdiot · 2004-03-16 09:09 · Score: 4, Insightful

Specs please. What does it do. What doesn't it do. How much does it cost. Thank you.

Ahhh, but that's the point. The perception is that women find tech specs cold, stark and heartless. Tech specs are "male", happy people and warm fuzzies are "female". I was going to say that it's all bullshit, but there is quite a bit of evidence to the contrary. Just look at how cosmetics and shampoo are marketed. Also look at how many women there are in "hardcore" tech positions - meaning network and system admins, programmers, etc. I've seen women start those positions, and I've seen them leave. How many programs and incentives have been instituted over the last twenty years to encourage more women to get into science and technology? When do they begin to work?

I guess that's a roundabout way of saying that (generally) men and women think and process information differently, and that's OK. Each has strengths and weaknesses, perfectly set up for a kind of symbiotic interdependance. But you are right - a female printer is kind of ridiculous.
Re:Completely misses the point! by Frymaster · 2004-03-16 09:23 · Score: 4, Insightful

Women perceive that Slashdot is male-oriented, or that they are being viewed differently here
"perceive"? have you read the first thirty or so posts? the level downright sexist jokes that rely on stereotypes about women is insane!
he solution is not to create a simplified, pink-themed version of slashot
bingo. the solution is for the population here to smarten up. yes, women comprise only a small percentage of the it/programming world. but then again, so do mexicans. and yet no one seems to make jokes about mexicans and computers. why? because as a society we've finally clued in that racism is unjust and couterproductive.
can we start working on dealing with sexism now?

--
2 1337 4 u!
Re:Completely misses the point! by poot_rootbeer · 2004-03-16 10:05 · Score: 2, Insightful

Who still relies on salespeople for information about products?

We have the internet for comparison shopping now. The only reason we still need the surly teens in the blue vests any more is to open up the cage where they keep the expensive things once we tell them what we want, and then carry it up to the checkout for us. And that's the same whether the buyer is male or female.
Re:Completely misses the point! by AchilleTalon · 2004-03-16 10:05 · Score: 2, Insightful

Guys don't assume anything. This is a ALL WOMEN team. So, it's not like guys were saying women are lesser citizen and needs some special feature on a printer to be able to use it efficiently.
Wait and see want this team will produce and it will show you how women perceived themselves different from men.

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Achille Talon
Hop!
Re:Completely misses the point! by Unknown+Kadath · 2004-03-16 10:32 · Score: 5, Insightful

Also look at how many women there are in "hardcore" tech positions...

I'm an aerospace engineer, and I do finite element analysis on jet engines for a living. It's not computers, but does it count for your purposes?

One of the things I've had to face up to is that women really are less than one in twenty or so (wild guess based on observation) in my profession. Things like the printer for women, or the car for women with the hood welded shut that featured in a recent article, makes me want to simply scream in frustration.

The issue I have with your point is that there's nothing about a woman's innate information processing capabilities that prevents her from looking at a list of features for two printers and picking the one that better meets her needs. The problem is learned helplessness. Being told not to worry her pretty little head, sometimes in so many words. It's rampant in sales and marketing of any kind--those horror stories you hear about women trying to buy cars or computers and being treated like 6 year-olds? They're all true. It's happened to me every time I've gone to make a big-ticket technical or mechanical purchase and it's positively disheartening. (The opposite problem exists in some men, who get talked into buying way more computer/car/grill/whatever than they actually need.)

The political issue of women in science and technology (and the flip side of men in caregiving positions) is way offtopic, and not something I really feel like discussing, because it makes me all ranty.

-Carolyn

--
Like Daddy always said: if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit.
Re:Completely misses the point! by Ironica · 2004-03-16 11:23 · Score: 2, Insightful

Creating a printer that will be marketed under the theme "printer easy for women to use" is not going to mollify complaints like Myers, instead, it seems to reinforce her argument that electronics retailers and manufacturers think women are stupid.

While this doesn't address a great deal of the issues raised by the article (such as marketing and salesjerks), having a printer designed entirely by women does address some of the issues with women and electronics.

My hands tend to be smaller. It can be more awkward for me to carry things with two hands in front of me, due to anatomy. Men and women do not respond the same way to the same symbology; a UI designed by/for women will be different than one designed by/for men.

Because this printer is developed by women, it should be easier for women to use than current offerings... which doesn't necessarily mean that it will be easier for *everyone* to use. It may be that guys will find it frustrating, because the buttons are small and the pictures make no sense to them.

--
Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
Re:Completely misses the point! by Ironica · 2004-03-16 11:27 · Score: 3, Insightful

I wouldn't use the term "stupid", but, as a generalization, women certainly need to be treated differently due to the difference in technical skill level.

I find the opposite to be the case.

If I talk to another woman about computers, she'll usually ask questions about stuff she doesn't understand, and communicate back (paraphrasing, etc.) to verify what she does understand. If I talk to a man about computers, he's far more likely (than the woman is) to say "uh-huh, uh-huh" even though he has no idea what I'm talking about, so I tend to have to ask a lot more questions to find out where his skill level is and what he understands.

The ratio of men to women among technically competent people is irrelevant, because the ratio of technically competent people to lusers is so tiny. The percentage of the male population that groks technology is not really that much higher than the percentage of the female population who does, but men are (in my experience) far more likely to attempt to hide their incompetence because of some macho idea that they *should* know this.

--
Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?

I need to ask... by HaloZero · 2004-03-16 08:18 · Score: 3, Insightful

...how is operating a piece of computer hardware ever gender-specific?

Smells like somewhat of a double standard to me.

--
Informatus Technologicus

Re:I need to ask... by 2nd+Post! · 2004-03-16 08:27 · Score: 1, Insightful

It's a side effect of society. When you have male architects, doctors, civil engineers, politicians, and transportation engineers, things are by *default* designed for men.

Are countertops designed around a woman's height?

Are doors built to accomodate pregnant women?

Are computers designed to accomodate women's cultural thought processes?

--

GPL Deconstructed

Strong enough for a man, but meant for a woman by ackthpt · 2004-03-16 08:19 · Score: 5, Insightful

Avoiding all the usual stereotypes, humor and marketing concepts, try as I might, I can't objectively think of a reason why a printer for a woman should be any different than a printer for a man. As far as I can see, it's just another printer design created by an independent group of designers. It all looks reasonable to me, assuming that handle can be removed from the Colorio me: E-100 (OK, it does look like it should have Louis Vuitton printed on it somewhere, but trying if it works better than what I've got I could care less who it was designed for.)

Couldn't help but note that that old dying technology Bluetooth is an option. ;-)

--

A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar

Re:Strong enough for a man, but meant for a woman by Some+Dumbass... · 2004-03-16 09:49 · Score: 2, Insightful

Avoiding all the usual stereotypes, humor and marketing concepts, try as I might, I can't objectively think of a reason why a printer for a woman should be any different than a printer for a man.

This is the one thing that worries me about this discussion. Sure none of us can come up with a good reason, and that translated article did say that the printer was supposed to be "easy" for a woman to use which suggests that it's just a dumbed-down printer. But I have to wonder, is it not possible that this research team, having spent much more time on the problem than we did, might have actually come up with something?

For example, I notice that some printers have buttons which stick out a bit, while others have buttons which are recessed (e.g. they go into the casing when you press them). Do you suppose that the latter type of button might cause a problem for someone with long fingernails? Likewise with touch screens now that I think about it. I assume, of course, that it is mostly women who have long fingernails, though I suppose some of you SlashDot geeks might not have cut your nails in a few months. ;)

Perhaps there are other features which are not so much vital to women as more strongly preferred by women. Men might not mind having to get into an awkward position to plug in the cables, but perhaps women mind more? Put the plugs on the side in an obvious place and that problem is solved. Perhaps they did something to make jammed sheets easier and less messy to pull out, like some sort of quick-release button? Maybe the average woman places more value on that sort of thing than the average man. Who knows?

Um...no. by lyssrose · 2004-03-16 08:23 · Score: 2, Insightful

A printer that looks like a portable radio? How on earth is that revolutionary? *rolling eyes*

And I can't imagine my mom being able to use that any better than she can use a normal printer. It doesn't matter what it LOOKS like...there's still the matter of actually figuring out how to hook the darn thing up, and THAT is what she has problems with.

--
"I came here to chew bubble gum & kick ass...and I'm all out of bubble gum"

Re:carry a printer? by jimbosworldorg · 2004-03-16 08:29 · Score: 5, Insightful

It doesn't support a bajillion options you're not used to seeing because it's designed for women, it sports a bajillion options you're not used to seeing because it's designed for Japanese domestic consumption. As far as I can tell, Inspector Gadget would stick out on a Tokyo city street mostly because his shoe-phone didn't have a color camera in it and play more games than a GameBoy Advance.

--

Coming soon to Slashdot: meta-meta-moderation!

When are people going to learn... by LordK2002 · 2004-03-16 08:30 · Score: 3, Insightful

When are people going to learn that solving problems with attidudes towards women (for example in computer shops, car mechanics etc) are not going to be improved by having special "female" versions of things?

You don't make equal by making different. This sort of thing does not benefit women any more than apartheid benefits ethnic minorities.

Now here's a suggestion: why not make it easy for everyone to use? Or is that just too logical?

K

Re:When are people going to learn... by Scudsucker · 2004-03-16 09:09 · Score: 3, Insightful

"problems with attidudes towards women", eh? What about advertizers attitudes towards men? These days you'd have a hard time finding any misogyny in ads, but there's plenty of misandry to go around.
Re:When are people going to learn... by tvh2k · 2004-03-16 09:51 · Score: 2, Insightful

Or perhaps the problem lies with the fact that women want everything equal as long as they still have the upper hand.

look at it this way by Fratz · 2004-03-16 08:35 · Score: 5, Insightful

There are cars that are made for and marketed toward women. There's shampoo for women. There's hair dye for women. There are even paper towels that are aimed at women.

All these things are also separately marketed toward men. Sure, the boxes are different, and the ads are different, but they're basically the same product. At some point a long time ago, someone figured out that gender-neutral products didn't do as well as ones that skewed toward male or female, and everyone else followed suit.

So please only find the "printer for women" insulting if you find the notion of women's shampoo, socks, towels, cars, hair dye, and paper towels insulting.

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-- Fratz, human

Is a printer the best item to start with? by ColourlessGreenIdeas · 2004-03-16 08:37 · Score: 2, Insightful

Printers aren't very personal objects. If I had gender issues with any of my electronics, I'd be more concerned about my phone, mp3 player, keyboard, mouse, monitor and computer in that order.

--
In soviet russia stale jokes recycle you!

This is ghey... by devphaeton · 2004-03-16 08:39 · Score: 5, Insightful

It's not only being marketed at women, it was completely designed by 'Team8' - an all-female project team created within Epson specifically for making a printer 'easy for women to use.'

What makes it "easy for women to use" as opposed to any other printer?

I swear.... with all the "women's rights" stuff, and women bantering on about how they want to be treated as equals, then why do we have "Lifetime, t.v. for women(tm)", or "Special K, A Cereal Designed For Women's Nutritional Needs", you know, "Strong enough for a man, made for a woman"

And finally the one that made me literally fall out of my chair when i heard it:

"Rogaine for women. Because women should not have to suffer from a man's problem."

Don't get me wrong, i mean... i dig chicks, but I guess i just don't understand why women have to simultaneously prove that they're both equal and special. They're like that with a lot of other things too. I cannot rationalize that, but they refuse to see anything wrong with a lot of their logic.

But what do i know? I'm just an insensitive male clod!!

--

do() || do_not(); // try();

Only women would... by kc0dxh · 2004-03-16 08:42 · Score: 2, Insightful

...design a printer with a single 6 color cartridge. It's bad enough my printer has 3 colors in one cartridge. Nothing like sucking money from the weak of mind.

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--- "1.21 Jigawatts!" -Doc

Re:It looks like a purse! by rjung2k · 2004-03-16 08:57 · Score: 2, Insightful

Just because you don't move it very often doesn't mean you won't appreciate having it when you do.

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--R.J.
Electric-Escape.net

Re: Women and PC knowledge by beeplet · 2004-03-16 09:16 · Score: 3, Insightful

I'm sure this does happen, but I don't think it's a reflection of women having inherently less technical ability than men. I would see it more that women are less likely to feel embarrassed about asking questions, whereas a man might research his purchase beforehand just to avoid looking clueless in the store.

Re:But if you do... by p4ul13 · 2004-03-16 09:31 · Score: 4, Insightful

The trick there is to get distracted at just the right moment.

--
Paul Lenhart writes words!

I don't find this surprising at all by Polyhazard · 2004-03-16 10:47 · Score: 2, Insightful

This thing is about marketing, period.

We have all grown up in a society where products are gender-coded from a very young age.

Just think about children's toys with a "boy" model and the "girl" model are exactly the same, except one is pink and the other is red or blue.

Or Gameboy vs Gamegirl.

Seems to me that this a is just a variation on that.

Re:It looks like a purse! by geoswan · 2004-03-16 14:05 · Score: 4, Insightful

From the original press release...

... and prints using one ink cartridge with 6 colors...

So does "designed for women" mean "designed for people who won't realize that this printer is even more of a ripoff than usual when it comes to ink refills?"

Re:-1 sexist by Macgrrl · 2004-03-16 14:35 · Score: 5, Insightful

So... you guys can spout off about how 'all' women move furniture on a whim, don't understand technology, waste money on shoes and clothes, and don't 'get it' about guys and gadget (and can't follow basic instructions), but if we complain about it we have no sense of humour... Of women have a sense of humour - most of us end up dating/married to men. cheers

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Sara
Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World

WTF? by Raven42rac · 2004-03-16 16:28 · Score: 2, Insightful

Why is it that when people hear "designed for/by women" they think "I will be a pussy if I use it", and immediately belittle and deride the object in question? Maybe the fairer sex can shed some new light on printers and cars, amongst other things. Women tend to look at things from a different angle. They are more practical than most men. I am a practical person, as I am sure most geeks are. I would rather have a good printer designed by/for a woman than a P.O.S.

--
I hate sigs.

ARGH! by beckysue74 · 2004-03-17 04:44 · Score: 2, Insightful

First off, I am a woman, and I don't really see any use for this printer as opposed to any other printer with the same features. It's definitely not much sleeker and doesn't seem to be easier to use from the description. I personally don't see a need for a "woman's" printer in the first place because most of the women I know - friends and coworkers - are techie enough to use a regular printer anyway. If some women want to buy it because it appeals to them, they're entitled.

Second, I'm no Femi-Nazi but the woman-bashing on this story is ridiculous. Sure, /. may be dominated by male geeks, but there are few of us "geeky girls" out here reading the boards. A few of y'alls jokes made me chuckle, I'll admit, but the hostility of a few of you nerds makes me think you're a bunch of lonely, lonely boys. With such an attitude towards the opposite sex, I don't wonder why.

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