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Converting Audio to Sony's ATRAC Format?

Posted by Cliff on from the playing-your-music-like-you-want-to dept.

wmspringer asks: "Having recently gotten a Sony CD player, I've become increasingly frustrated with the provided SonicStage Simple Burner software. I like being able to record over 24 hours of music on one CD and the extra options atrac3plus offers, but I can't stand using the software anymore. Do slashdot readers have any suggestions as to the best software to use for burning atrac3plus format? On a related note, what is the highest data rate worth using?"

42 comments

  1. ATRAC3plus by thesp · · Score: 5, Informative

    ATRAC3plus is a Sony proprietary standard, with all this complex licensing issues this entails, hence it's unlikely anyone else will be using this technology, particularly in the free/open source software community. Sony are somewhat canny about releasing details of the licensing, so I haven't found anything more detailed about their licensing strategy than this. This paper also gives some peripheral insight.

    1. Re:ATRAC3plus by cymen · · Score: 1

      Maybe someone will figure out how to use the .DLL files (see how the various video codecs are usable on linux doing this) but given the popularity of MP3, I suspect nobody wants to invest the time.

    2. Re:ATRAC3plus by Mr.+Piddle · · Score: 1, Insightful

      proprietary standard

      I really really wish people would stop saying this.

      --
      Vote in November. You won't regret it.
    3. Re:ATRAC3plus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why? What're the alternatives?

    4. Re:ATRAC3plus by Mr.+Piddle · · Score: 1


      Proprietary ... interface ... protocol ... format ... hardware ... software ... media ... anything but the oxymoronic "standard".

      --
      Vote in November. You won't regret it.
  2. What model do you have? by karnal · · Score: 4, Informative

    Unfortunately, I don't have any real insight to how to solve your problem, but I have researched these cd/mp3/atrac players before.

    As a side note, I bought a MiniDisc player/recorder a few years back. Now, when I use it to record from computer, the last few tracks on any disc don't work properly -- so I don't know that I'll be buying a new md player anytime soon.....

    But I have looked into CDR/mp3/etc players at the stores. Some of them look pretty cheap (and rather bulky -- as in thick...) I thought about buying a Sony mp3 cd player, but was uncertain as to whether it would play mp3's.... or if you had to convert it to ATRAC (obviously using their software to do so...)

    I know that Sony has extensive patents on ATRAC, and any of their products that allow you to record to an mp3-like format probably use this format. To this day, I am unaware of any other software to actually create ATRAC files, but I think that the popularity of mp3 files has overshadowed the attempts to reverse engineer it... That being said, does your model do MP3's as well?

    --
    Karnal
    1. Re:What model do you have? by wmspringer · · Score: 1

      My understanding is that my model does play regular mp3s, but so far I've only used regular music CDs and an ATRAC CD. I suppose I should try it on mp3s, then I'll post the result.

      --
      Twenties Retirement
    2. Re:What model do you have? by allstarska · · Score: 1

      Sorry if this sounds like an ad for Sony, but I have been very happy with my Sony mp3 cd player. It plays mp3 disks that I burn with WinXP or Nero just fine. I haven't even bothered to install the Sony software onto my computer.

      It's also easily as thin as any regular cd player. The best feature is the battery -> great lifetime + rechargeable. The player only spins the disk for about 30seconds as it reads the song data. Then it stops and waits for the next song.

    3. Re:What model do you have? by FlipmodePlaya · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you care about bulk, and can spare $100, try iRivers SlimX models. They're litteraly the size of 3 or 4 stacked CDs. They also come with an inline remote that rivals any interface I've seen on a portable music device. I hear the newest firmware supports Ogg, too.

    4. Re:What model do you have? by ePhil_One · · Score: 1
      Sorry if this sounds like an ad for Sony, but I have been very happy with my Sony mp3 cd player

      Thats because you got a Sony MP3 player, and were not misled by the salesman to buy a Sony Digital Music Player instead. My one upside is that I paid a third of the selling price because it was open box; I might not have realized it wasn't an MP3 player until it was too late to return it because the lame software was Win95 only and couldn't access my MP3 collection stored in Win2k NTFS. Of course, I'm now stuck with a lame Digital Music Player that looks real cool but is too big a pin in the arse to change the music on regularly

      I'm very wary of buying Sony products now.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisted little posts, all alike.
    5. Re:What model do you have? by wolf- · · Score: 1

      I just bought a Sony D-NE510 this week.
      It plays CDs, CDR/CDRW (with mp3s or ATRAC files)

      The antiskip works pretty well. Since I listen while I jog, that was a must have. It also has a "hold" slide switch that allows you to lock all the controls so you don't accidentally bump and change something. Also has a feature that limits the maximum audio output to protect your hearing from tracks that aren't normalized.

      I loved the warning in the manual about copy protected cds not being supported.

      I concur with the author that the included software is slow and just a little kludgey. It does rip cds to ATRAC as quickly as CDex rips MP3s, so in that regards its fine.

      I bought it because for $59 I got 640mb of available storage over an MP3 player that might only have 128mb for the price.

      So far, I've noticed that I need to remove spaces from the filenames of my mp3s in order for the Sony to find them on a cdr or cdrw.

      My MP3s are either LAME or the Radium hacked codec encoded and they all seem to work fine.

      All in all the ATRAC format is as good as the MP3 format in audio quality. However, the proprietary nature of the format will have me only ripping my collections to MP3s.

      Besides, I want to be able to play those MP3 cds in my car as well, and it does NOT have a Sony in it.

      --
      ----- LoboSoft specializes in Digital Language Lab
  3. I use SonicStage Jukebox by nemui-chan · · Score: 2, Interesting
    That being said, I've never -ever- had as many problems with software as I do with Sony's software to burn minidisks. The software that comes with it is crap, and the SonicStage is only slightly better. My suggestion is don't buy another sony digital media product. Personally, I won't get another one. Which sucks, because I love my minidisk player, but its just not worth the effort to try and get music on to it.

    nems

  4. SonicStudio by thesp · · Score: 2, Informative

    I am aware that SonicStudio has licensed ATRAC3plus from Sony for their N-code project, but this is probably a rather heavy-duty package for your needs, with a price tag to match. It's mostly used by professionals, although, to be fail, Photoshop was once solely the province of pro graphic artists.

  5. Use Nero's ImageDrive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I have a NetMD MiniDisc player, and have always hated using the Sony software that came with the player. The best way that I have found, and this may halp you out as well, is to use Nero's ImageDrive feature. Basically, you compile your playlist in Nero with CD tracks, MP3s, etc. and burn it as an image file. Next, load the image file into ImageDrive. Finally, use the Sony software to "copy a CD" (the CD you will copy as a source will be the ImageDrive). The ATRAC conversion will take place automatically, and your "enlarged" CD that is spoofed by ImageDrive will be compressed.

    Do a Google search on "nero minidisc" and you will get more details.

  6. Obligatory Gilda Radner reference by linuxwrangler · · Score: 1, Funny


    What's all this I hear about 8-track - didn't that format die in the 70's?...

    Oh...ATRAK??...

    Never mind.
    </Emily Latella>

    --

    ~~~~~~~
    "You are not remembered for doing what is expected of you." - Atul Chitnis
  7. why is it neccesary? by cmdr_of_taco · · Score: 0

    I have no real experience, ihmo i just use regular cds. What is the point of putting 24 hours of music through a lossy compression when you fit an hour of high quality muisic on a regular cd?

    1. Re:why is it neccesary? by wmspringer · · Score: 1

      Well, I'm not expert on music, but it sounds pretty much the same to me. And it means you don't have to carry a bunch of CDs around :-)

      --
      Twenties Retirement
    2. Re:why is it neccesary? by GTRacer · · Score: 1
      You're trolling, right?

      Well I'm a' feedin': Because DiscMan-sized players only hold one disc at a time? I tend to be out of the house for longer than that. Plus, I don't like to be limited to one artist's stuff. With MP3/ATRAC,etc, I may only listen for two or three hours, but I can choose from a buffet of music, shows, etc.

      GTRacer
      - What portables play VBRs?

      --
      Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
    3. Re:why is it neccesary? by CokoBWare · · Score: 1

      Some of Panasonic's CD-based MP3 players support VBR, FYI.

    4. Re:why is it neccesary? by betaray · · Score: 1

      My Creative Jukebox III supports VBR

    5. Re:why is it neccesary? by karnal · · Score: 1

      I used to get really mad about having so many CD's in my car. When I bought a new car, I decided to get a new CD player for it. Since I like a lot of different bands, I had a lot of cd's lying around.

      I bought an in dash MP3 cd player. I probably get anywhere from 8-12 albums on each CD, I can use CD-RW's if I want to change it up a little (for instance, if I get a new album of a certain band, I can add it to that RW).

      It is awesome to have only 7 discs in the car, instead of close to 50.... I encode the mp3's myself, and on the whole the system sounds rather good to my ears. My only real annoyance with the unit? No gapless playback. It's like the player forgets about the next song it has to play, and all of a sudden has to buffer the beginning of the song after the previous one ends.... mildly annoying, but the benefits outweigh that con.

      Plain old CDs play gapless, though...

      --
      Karnal
    6. Re:why is it neccesary? by GTRacer · · Score: 1
      Are you sure? I checked their website last week and then emailed CustServ when the site wasn't clear. I just got a response from them that none of their portables are VBR-compatible.

      If you have one that works with VBRs, please share your model number or location I can get one.

      GTRacer
      - THXkBYE

      --
      Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
    7. Re:why is it neccesary? by CokoBWare · · Score: 1

      The Panasonic SL-CT800 supports VBR according to a number of websites. At least two websites I've come across have said this particular model supports VBR. I haven't specifically experimented with this feature of the player, but I am convinced that at least a few of my tracks I've played on this player are VBR.

  8. Try RealOne by jhoger · · Score: 1

    My brother has MiniDisc and we use RealOne player to download MP3's to the device. Much easier to use than the Sony tools that came with it, since you can avoid all the check-in/out junk.

    Now we were using MP3s, it may or may not work with ATRAC. Why do you care about ATRAC anyway? Doesn't it play MP3?

    1. Re:Try RealOne by wmspringer · · Score: 1

      Yes, but ATRAC files are smaller. I should try mp3s, though; I'm not sure whether or not the extra options on the player really require the ATRAC format. I've seen check-in/check-out a few times, but I'm not sure what it is; a restriction from the minidisc player? The one I have plays full-size CDs.

      --
      Twenties Retirement
    2. Re:Try RealOne by jhoger · · Score: 1

      The check-in/check-out is how the Sony software works for the higher quality ATRAC files. It is a DRM system in the software that downloads music to the MP3 player. I would think they do something similar when you want to get ATRAC files out of the library. But if you're using simple burner though, I guess you don't see the check-in/out stuff.

      Anyway you should check out RealOne to see if it does what you want. Personally I wouldn't mess with ATRAC format since it typically involves DRM. Rip once, rip right to OGG Flac, then transcode to the format of your player.

      Here's an idea... Will Nero burn ATRAC files to disc?

  9. irksome... by StillDocked · · Score: 1

    It was their own choice, however, they are asking for help. Throw it out and buy something open doesn't seem to be an answer to their question.

    I like my device, and while I would love to be able to find a *nix version of software for it, I am not complaining or stating that *nix is awful because it doesn't support it.

    The poster was looking for information you essentially called him a moron for buying a piece of hardware that wasn't fully open.

    1. Re:irksome... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they are asking for help. Throw it out and buy something open doesn't seem to be an answer to their question.

      Actually, cutting one's losses if the problem is going to continue to be a problem is a perfectly reasonable thing to consider.

      Sure, he didn't have to call the owner a moron, but it's possible that he has made a bad decision by buying something so closed and proprietary that the community can't do much to support him. A reasonable response from the community is to cut the losses and invest in hardware that can be supported by independent third parties, programmers, etc.

    2. Re:irksome... by hak1du · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The poster was looking for information you essentially called him a moron for buying a piece of hardware that wasn't fully open.

      Yes, I did. And by buying devices using proprietary formats, he not only hurt himself, he also hurt everybody else, by keeping companies using proprietary formats in business.

      I like my device, and while I would love to be able to find a *nix version of software for it, I am not complaining or stating that *nix is awful because it doesn't support it.

      The fault is not with UNIX, it is with your device vendor: the vendor of your device keeps the format closed. And the fault is with you by keeping companies like that in business.

      It was their own choice, however, they are asking for help. Throw it out and buy something open doesn't seem to be an answer to their question.

      It is, in fact, the only answer to their question: the format isn't closed and proprietary by accident, it is closed and proprietary because Sony wants it to be. The only way to circumvent Sony's restriction is by breaking the law. So, the choices come down to: (1) live with the current situation, (2) break the law, or (3) throw it out. Given that (1) seems not to be acceptable and we don't recommend (2), that only leaves (3).

    3. Re:irksome... by StillDocked · · Score: 1

      Thanks for your response...and you Yes, I did made me laugh out loud...

  10. Here's an ACM codec by menders · · Score: 2, Informative

    http://www.minidisc.org/atrac3.zip

    You can use it in an application like CoolEdit or VirtualDub. RealProducer has an encoder as well. I recommend posting in the forums at http://www.hydrogenaudio.org if you have any further questions.

  11. Real Jukebox does ATRAC... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Real Networks' Jukebox software allows you to create ATRAC-compressed music, but it's still in Real format. And we all know that Real = teh suck.

  12. Re:solution? easy by wmspringer · · Score: 1

    Actually, it was a gift from someone who knows nothing about technology, so I'd say that throws out half your argument, but given the choice, yeah, I'd take this one anyway. It works well and sounds good.

    And yes, it has a proprietary encoding format, but it doesn't require you to use it, so why not? There's no reason not to have an extra option on top of the standard, especially when the extra option (except for the crappy included software) works better.

    --
    Twenties Retirement
  13. Re:solution? easy by Sarreq+Teryx · · Score: 1

    I don't know about the original poster, but I bought mine for the 80 hour AA battery life, whether it requires the use of Atrac3 or not. suggest another player with equivalent battery life.

    even using MP3s it still gets 45 hours out of the 1950mAh recharables I use.

  14. Sony network walkman by cpex · · Score: 1
    I told my wife i wanted an MP3 player for my birthday. My wife is a die hard sony fan. We have a sony digital camera, sony, digital camcorder, sony projection tv, well you get the picture. Anyways sony makes this network walkman Which is a ATRAC player. Well my wife saw it and loved it, not knowing the diffrence between mp3 and ATRAC. Now when i told her i wanted an mp3 player i was thinking of that $79 one I saw at cosco. Well she got the sony one for me. It is really cool, tiny and has pretty good size built in memory , 256MB. The new ones have 512mb i think. The thing i hate the most is that it requires the magic gate memory stick which is way overpriced for digital media. The sonic stage software is not bad but I dont like being tied down, and what happens down the road when they discontinue this line and i loose the sonic stage cd and need to reinstall?

    currently i have sonic stage configured to convert mp3 to ATRAC when i transfer mp3 files to the device. Its kind of slow but i didnt want to convert all my mp3 to atrac and keep 2 copies, and i didnt want to commit my music collection to sony and abandon my mp3's

    I do love my sony digital camera As far as quality of the pictures it take its great. The photo album software that came with it sucks majorly. When I installed it after it was done it said "Select another system to boot again" in other words reboot the system. Sony shame on you for including crap with a fairly expensive product. I use photoshop for any photo retouching/editing and the software that came with my hp printer is pretty decent when it comes to just selecting pictures and printing them and making sure the sizes are all good. The sony software had no option to print. Ony allowed you to organize photos into albums. Windows xp explorer is much better for browsing my pictures than that crap.

  15. Make sure you have the latest software version by scootaboy · · Score: 1

    I'm a minidisc owner and use the sonicstage software all the time without issue. I am aware that this software has a bad reputation but immediately upgraded it to the latest version which for Minidisc is something like 1.5.3 - (available by following the internet link in the application to Sony's support site) - and have run error free ever since. Most users who report problems have older PCs, apparently the software is a resource hog. Hang tight though - Sony is about to release a vastly updated Sonicstage 2.0 in readiness for the release of it's iTunes competing download service (www.connect.com) coming in the summer, which early testers have suggested is a much improved interface.

  16. To all the people saying 'use MP3' by Larry+David · · Score: 1

    Using MP3 on these players is great, it works fine. But the reason why atrac3plus is desirable is because the sound quality at low bit rates is nothing short of amazing.

    I'm reasonably fussy, and I can just about 'get by' with 48kbps atrac3plus files. They don't sound great, but as good as well encoded 96kbps MP3s! That's more than enough for these devices since they have very poor output volume, and when you're walking around an airport, who needs high definition sound?