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Broadcast Flag Technologies Open For Comment

An anonymous reader submits "The Broadcast Flag Rule, discussed here(1) and here(2) controls redistribution of digital television by requring receivers to restrict the output of content to certain outputs. One of the most influential concerns as to how bad this will be is what digital output and recording technologies are approved for use. Today, a Public Notice has been issued listing the technologies submitted for approval. This is the public's chance to comment on these submissions. The information provided to the FCC can be found using the Electronic Comment Filing System and searching based on the docket number from the Public Notice. Comments can also be submitted using ECFS."

32 comments

  1. Mirror by Mizery+De+Aria · · Score: 3, Funny
    --
    If you're religishitty, KILL YOURSELF!
  2. My public comment by scumbucket · · Score: 0, Troll

    is that this technology appears to make a whole generation of older video devices (TV's, VCR's, etc.) that are still working fine obsolete.

    I have a 20-year old RCA 19-inch console TV that is still working fine. I don't want to buy another just because of some damn 'broadcast flag' not letting watch my shows.

    --
    CMDRTACO CHECK YOUR EMAIL!
    1. Re:My public comment by bay43270 · · Score: 1, Informative

      I have a 20-year old RCA 19-inch console TV that is still working fine. I don't want to buy another just because of some damn 'broadcast flag' not letting watch my shows.

      This isn't true. A broadcast flag is a bit (or bytes) added to a digital signal. Your 20-year old RCA doesn't recieve a digital signal, so it will never see the broadcast flag. One day, when analog signals are turned off, you will loose the use of your set (unless you buy a converter). This has nothing to do with the broadcast flag.

    2. Re:My public comment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FYI, the above is a post by anti-slash trolls. Its listed on the front page of their site (which I occasionally check strictly for laughs). Moderators, please mod down.

  3. Re:LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    while true; tail /var/log/traffic.eth0.txt | mail abuse@fbi.gov; done

  4. An observation by (trb001) · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why do they think this will work? Has digital DRM worked yet? All it takes is one person to design a digital filter, post the instructions on the internet, and they've just lost the ability to control content. This is gonna make cable descrambling look like a side project.

    --trb

  5. Well, if you want content... by eltoyoboyo · · Score: 1, Troll

    ...You should pay for it, be it software, music, movies, still pictures, or books.

    Only the owner can run a printing press and sell their own copyrighted material. When the owner gives up that right, or the copyright expires, then anyone may duplicate the materials.

    Pretty simple, right?

    Users easily fall into the trap of "It's so easy to do it for *free*, why should I pay some publishing or record company a duplicating fee?" The answer is that you still owe the author or artist due compensation.

    The record, movie, and book companies are going to give way to other forms of distribution that will collect royalties. ASCAP already collects fees from radio stations, it would be easy for them to get into the internet distribution business!

    --
    Have you Meta Moderated t
    1. Re:Well, if you want content... by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      Users easily fall into the trap of "It's so easy to do it for *free*, why should I pay some publishing or record company a duplicating fee?" The answer is that you still owe the author or artist due compensation.

      Which is why there is a considerably better solution: change the laws so that no compensation is due. Creators don't have a right to copyrights.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    2. Re:Well, if you want content... by eltoyoboyo · · Score: 1

      Creators don't have a right to copyrights.
      OK, IANAL., but you will be. And you raise an interesting point to me. If I have an idea, I might go through the effort to make money from it by selling a movie, book, sheet music, or similar item on distributable media. Someone else buys one of that item and then duplicates it and goes into the distribution business, as my new competition. What would my legal recourse be under your proposed law?

      Plus, where is the business proposition now? Who is going to make an investment in a movie where there is no return?

      --
      Have you Meta Moderated t
    3. Re:Well, if you want content... by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Don't misunderstand me. I do support copyrights. But that doesn't mean that I have to be a total zealot regarding artists' rights. I don't propose that we abolish copyright altogether.

      The point I'm trying to make is that copyright isn't something that artists are automatically entitled to; not in whether it exists at all, or what qualifies for it, or what prerequisites have to be satisfied to get it. Given that it is intended to promote the public good -- which includes more than just rewarding artists and encouraging them to do stuff -- it has to studied with a critical eye.

      I am messing around with a proposal (obviously it would never get anywhere) but it's rather more nuanced than what you inferred.

      And incidentally, ideas aren't protected even now. Ideas are cheap and worthless. Copyright protects expressions of ideas; how you say it. It doesn't stop people from saying something differently.

      With regards to your point, I would require the artist to take some affirmative steps in order to get copyrights. I wouldn't give them out willy nilly to everybody for every stupid little thing. They wouldn't be difficult to get, but you'd have to want one enough to file for it. If the author doesn't think their work merits such a minimum amount of effort to get protection, why should I think it merits any? But that's easy, and if you're going through the effort you describe, you'd pretty certainly fill out some simple forms, etc.

      Whereupon you'd have a copyright -- probably for five years, subject to renewals if you were willing to bother to do so -- which could be used to prevent people from commercially competing with you.

      But honestly, I increasingly find that noncommercial infringements by natural persons are sufficiently widespread, desirable, perhaps fair-use-like, etc. that to try to stop them would be like King Canute trying to stop the tide from coming in. Better to allow it, and limit your rights to going after people that're competing with you commercially.

      You'll still have a return on your investment. It might be less than it is now (though noncommercial piracy _is_ widespread without seemingly putting a big dent in Hollywood et al) but it's still something. I don't have a problem with this because, like I said, copyright is intended to promote the public interest. This might mean that the best way to promote the public interest involves reducing the amount of available money to be had. Since it still leaves everyone better off in the end (remember artists are in the public too, and frequently create derivatives of public domain works) it's still the right thing to do.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  6. Not to be cynical by HunterD · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not to be cynical, because I respect people participating in our democracy, but what's the point? Michael Powell blatently ignores the public commentary EVERY time, and sides with big business 100% of the time over the comsumer. The man has yet to make even one pro consumer decision since taking the reigns of the FCC.

    Realistically, we are not going to make a difference on this no matter how many of us post, because the FCC doesn't give one whit about consumers currently. If you really want this to have even a remote chance of working out for the best, take action by voting Kerry.

    Devon Jones

    --
    - The unexamined life is not worth leading -
    1. Re:Not to be cynical by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      We have no reason to believe that Kerry will support individual consumers over big business any more than the Bush administration has.

      If you really want meaningful consumer protection, vote for Nader. :p

    2. Re:Not to be cynical by HunterD · · Score: 1

      That's a complete load of horse pucky. I jsut don't get he naderites. By every measure I can think of our country is worse off after 4 years of Bush. Sure, Kerry may represent special interests, but the democrat special interstes are FAR less repugnant then the republican ones. Hmm Bush's: Big Oil. Kerry's: The national teacher's union.

      Besides, your comment is TOTALLY wrong. need I remind you that Powell and teh two republicans running the fcc voted to raise the ownership caps. The dems in the FCC voted against it. That right there gives lie to your statement.

      A vote for nader is a vote for bush, and 4 more years of losing freedoms, and widening gaps between the rich and the poor. If you think a vote for nader is anything else, you are fooling yourself, and to the detriment of everyone around you.

      --
      - The unexamined life is not worth leading -
    3. Re:Not to be cynical by malachid69 · · Score: 1

      I agree. I spent quite a bit of time posting my comments the last time this came up. Obviously, all of our comments were completely ignored, or there is no way it would have passed.

      Malachi

      --
      http://www.google.com/profiles/malachid
  7. Enter the cynic by Wylfing · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I recall when the Senate Judiciary Committee was first talking about the flag, they had the same sham public comment forum. The thousands of comments on that forum were one hundred percent opposed to the flag. Oh look, they passed the law anyway.

    There is precisely zero chance that a comment this time is going to be any different. You cannot affect this process by posting to a forum.

    --
    Our intelligent designer has never created an animal that we couldn't improve by strapping a bomb to it.
    1. Re:Enter the cynic by Great_Jehovah · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It may not have an immediate effect, but I believe these comment forums do go into official records and can be used later by someone fighting to change the laws for the better.

      It can't hurt to write a comment.

    2. Re:Enter the cynic by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      It may not have an immediate effect, but I believe these comment forums do go into official records and can be used later by someone fighting to change the laws for the better.

      It can't hurt to write a comment.


      It can, after Congress gives police powers to MPAA enforcers, and they look through these records looking for likely "pirates" whose homes should be raided.

    3. Re:Enter the cynic by NanoGator · · Score: 1

      "The thousands of comments on that forum were one hundred percent opposed to the flag. Oh look, they passed the law anyway."

      Well, just playing Devil's advocate here, it was a request for comments as opposed to a vote. If the reasoning put forth had a strong rebuttal from the industry, then yeah I can see the people being fairly (I said devils advocate here, put your pitchfork down) blown off.

      "There is precisely zero chance that a comment this time is going to be any different. You cannot affect this process by posting to a forum."

      Probably not. The problem is, we don't have PR spindoctors on our side.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
  8. And that's for TV, right? by NickFusion · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So, there's some technology that's going to make it more difficult and less rewarding to watch TV?

    Yeah, I'll take some of that.

    I was having a conversation with someone about this today.

    Does anybody watch TV anymore? Aren't there more interesting things going on? Do people talk about TV shows at work, or is it games these days?

    Is a Tivo full of "Dharma and Greg" really the key to eternal bliss?

    Anyway, if someone wants a mutiny on a sinking ship, I say let him wear the captain's hat.

    --
    What were you expecting?
    1. Re:And that's for TV, right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Ironically recent studeies show (not supprisingly) that TV viewing (especially for "news" programming) is on the rise. The funny part is that people actually trust the "news" that they are getting even less according to one poll (see here).

  9. I for one welcome the broadcast flag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm weak. I'd like to stop watching TV, but I don't have the willpower.

    But the day I'll be unable to record a show because of the flag is the day I'll quit TV. Cold turkey. I've done it before (for a year or so) and I can do it again for as long as it takes for the flag to die (even if it never happens).

    1. Re:I for one welcome the broadcast flag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, but the beauty of this is that you can read these applications and find out in advance whether or not you'll be able to record your shows.

      The explicit goal of the flag is not to prevent recording, but to prevent us from sending those recordings out over the internet to 2 billion of our closest friends.

      If any of these miss that goal, that might be worth telling the FCC.

  10. You forgot about nipples by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Hey, Powell got all righteous and indignant when Janet flashed her nipple. He was going to fine CBS and revoke their license. That's not exactly pro-business, is it?

    Of course, when they kill someone on TV that's just fine. No outrage, no fines. Death good, nipple bad. Just so we know our priorities are straight.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    1. Re:You forgot about nipples by HunterD · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I couldn't agree more. The concept of a nipple on TV being the end of decency is a farce.

      One of (I think it was MSNBC's anchors) referred to it as the biggest scandle he could /think/ of. *pshaw* this is nothign compared to gettign US servicement killed in another country based on a mound of lies and damn lies.

      --
      - The unexamined life is not worth leading -
  11. "You may not watch this on an analog set" by tepples · · Score: 1

    This has nothing to do with the broadcast flag.

    That is, unless the broadcast flag has a way to express "copyright owner prohibits converter boxes from downsampling video to an 480i analog composite signal".

  12. All the more reason by God+Takeru · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All the more reason to comment. There are infinitely more of 'us' than there are of 'them.' The simplest way to beat the system is to get as many people involved as possible: it takes a lot more manpower to raid the houses of a hundred thousand than of ten. If there's enough public dissent, whether or not we're written off, we can prevent them from going after others by showing number solidarity-- and when people look back, the history books won't say "...and nobody tried to help."

    More seriously as to all of this, I am a little tired of the cynical view on issues, speaking as a cynic: My vote may or may not be actually counted, my opinion may or may not be listened to, I'm pretty sure they're probably not. Either way, though, isn't it worth a little effort, and a little fight, just to try? If you're right, sure, your efforts amount to nothing-- but why not give it a try, just in case you may be wrong?

    Just because you're cynical doesn't mean you have to be apathetic.

    --
    "Anonymous cowards are just K-whores afraid of their accounts being modded down." - Bob the O (me)
  13. Nader by God+Takeru · · Score: 0, Troll

    Politicians are controlled by those who give them money. That stated, a different, and more pleasant, set of people sponsor Kerry and are putting as much money as possible into defeating Bush (The Sierra Club and Moveon.org, for a couple examples of major groups involved in spending this time around).

    Vote for Nader? No! Vote for me. You're doing just as much for your country, and your supposed conscience that makes you vote for a candidate that has no chance to win will feel EVEN BETTER knowing it's casting a vote for somebody who feels the need to be politically active the year round, rather than showing up on the political scene every four years to reap the benefits of my pro-consumer activism from years and years ago. I'm more leftist than he is, and I'm beholden to nobody, as nobody is giving me any money at all.

    I can understand voting for the man in 2002 in an attempt to establish a third party, but right now he's running on his own, as an independent. All you're doing is ensuring a greater evil wins. You have the right to vote for whomever you choose-- feel free to put down Nader-- but know that you may as well be writing down your own name on that ballot, as you have just as good a chance to win as he does.

    --
    "Anonymous cowards are just K-whores afraid of their accounts being modded down." - Bob the O (me)
  14. Re:LOL by 0x0d0a · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    So the GNAA will be mailbombing the FBI? This should be interesting.