Device Hackers Do It With Linux

An anonymous reader writes "LinuxDevices.com has published the results of its annual Embedded Linux Market Survey probing developer preferences and industry trends. Over the last four years, the survey has become an important resource for industry analysts and decision makers. Among the revelations: the embedded Linux tools and OS provider market is wide open, with no single dominant vendor; developers care most about Cost/Freeness; ARM is overtaking x86 in embedded systems; developers prefer support fees to runtime license models; and, Linux dwarves all other embedded operating systems, projected for use in half of all embedded projects during the next two years."

Comments

Yeah

[Anonymous Coward]

They also do it with each other. Fags!

Re:Yeah

[Leffe]

Do what, embed ... Linux :)?

Right now

[Apreche]

Right now I have a job and I'm using linux on an ARM XScale processor.

What i'm waiting for

[wed128]

all i want to know is...when can i run nmap from my watch???

Glad to hear it. Keep evangelizing.

[Syncdata]

Linux is an easy call when it comes to putting together a piece of hardware.
I'm currently trudging through the planning phase for an MP3 stereo component. Linux gives me, an aspiring hardware haxxor 3 key benefits.
It's not as tethered to X86.
A linux system can be (practically) as small as you want it to be.
And at least for my purposes, building a prototype, it's free to use and experiment with. I don't need to drop the cash on a liscence to a closed OS. (I'm looking at you CE).
Linux isn't ready for some things, but it's a perfect fit for an home-dev.

Middle-Earth Development?

[EvilJohn]

"Linux dwarves all other embedded operating systems..."

So we've gone from trolls to dwarves?

Re:Middle-Earth Development?

[Anonymous Coward]

nah, just typical slashdottie illiteracy. he wanted the verb form and wrote the plural; I'll bet he misues the possesive form where he wants to write a plural as well. the so-called editors never fix this stuff, probably because their writing skills are about equally bad.

Slashdot: grammar for loser. cunt spill.

Yeah, what else is new?

[Anonymous Coward]

And in other news...

Many Nerds have a Dislike for Microsoft!

you don't say

[xenocide2]

Linux is looking up? Consider the sample source for a minute. A survey on linuxdevices. Of course there will be a solid linux representation. I'd expect to hear great things about the market trends of QNX based on a survey from QNXZone, too.

Re:you don't say

[El]

True, this is not a scientific survey. However, my personal experience tells me Linux is being considered for about half of all new devices. Look at the economics. A wireless access point is now about a $50 device. How much sense does it make to pay a $25 license fee for the OS for every one of these? You simply can't do that and still remain competitive. Arguably, you can't pay ANY per-unit license fees now and still remain competive with companies that are paying only development costs -- at least for any devices selling in high volumes.

Re:you don't say

[Brandybuck]

For a tiny consumer product selling for $50, a $25 fee is ridiculous. But the embedded market is much bigger than that. Thinking that all embedded systems must be consumer shrinkwrapped items is like thinking that all operating systems should be applicable to Aunt Tillie's desktop eMachine.

QNX would be overkill on such devices.

informative because i use links

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux is great because it's free

Linux is Destroying Our Society

[10101001 10101001]

Dissociative Press - March 20, 2004

It has come to light recently that Linux is eatting at the very fabric of our future society. In a disturbing trend documented at a popular Linux enthusiast website, Slashdot, documentation of sexual relations between device programmers and Linux have surfaced. Many such programmers have died, leaving a parent or sometimes a girlfriend emotionally devastated without a significant source of income to provide in future years.

Even more devastating are the programmers who, aftering mating with Linux, form a lifelong relationship with Linux thereby inhibiting the production of future generations of programmers. Even worse, Linux being open source carries the real possibility of future Software EXchange diseases which could cripple said developers before their time. Various comments on Slashdot imply that such a coupling with Linux is healthy for the current economics, yet there exist no document involving developers mating with Windows.

It is clear, the future is using Windows on embedded devices where the clear relationship lines are drawn. Being proprietary, Windows can offer a safe and company backed relationship that can be broken off if there's ever trouble. And because people pay for Windows or competing embedded services the free market is at work allowing for no single competitor to somehow strong arm developers into using one product. For me, the future looks bright with Microsoft.

Plural dwarf noun != verb "to dwarf"

[cinder_bdt]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=dwarf

W00T! MOD PARENT UP!

[Anonymous Coward]

linux in commercial embedded market.

[torpor]

is give and take:

give linux hardware, and it will run on it.

PC components

[hankaholic]

Linux may kick some ass in the embedded market, but PC hardware makers are still disappointingly reluctant to release information needed to ensure that their hardware works to its fullest extent under everyone's favorite OSS kernel.

Matrox used to release specifications so that those willing to roll their own drivers could take advantage of their hardware. This is sadly no longer true.

It's awesome to see that Linux holds its own in the embedded market. Embedded manufacturers realize that their hardware is a means to an end, and by allowing developers the freedom to make their own decisions regarding OS they only widen their potential customer base. I only wish that PC hardware manufacturers felt the same way.

Re:PC components

[ClosedSource]

It's not surprising that hardware makers that haven't hitched their wagon to the PC gravy train would be more willing to look elsewhere for a market.

For existing PC hardware manufacturers the question is whether the potential market is large enough to justify the additional support and development costs. If there is sufficient profit to be made these companies will eventually come around.

Re:PC components

[hankaholic]

Opening specifications isn't about support costs, it's about fear. Deciding to stop distributing the same exact documentation which they used to provide quite happily wasn't a move to cut support costs.

Manufacturers are afraid that when their "trade secrets" get out, competing suppliers will destroy them. However, there have been manufacturers marketing MIPS cores for years, yet many still opt for the original in their designs. Intel seems to be doing fairly well despite having documented their instruction sets for decades.

It's about shipping a product which is well-manufactured enough that competition isn't so worrisome. Matrox uses quality RAMDACs, so their cards have beautiful output. Even if someone were to sell a cheap knock-off clone, Matrox still owns the trademarks, and nobody can steal their reputation for producing cards with quality output.

It's about fear of competition, and refusing to disclose anything beyond the bare minimum is nothing but an attempt to stifle it.

Re:PC components

[Anonymous Coward]

It's about shipping a product which is well-manufactured enough that competition isn't so worrisome. Matrox uses quality RAMDACs, so their cards have beautiful output. Even if someone were to sell a cheap knock-off clone, Matrox still owns the trademarks, and nobody can steal their reputation for producing cards with quality output.

No one else will be able to steal Matrox's reputation for flaky drivers though (especially on their tri- and quad-head cards)!

Device Hackers Do It With Linux

[Captain Splendid]

Haven't I seen that on a bumper sticker somewhere?

What does embedded mean these days?

[ClosedSource]

An embedded system used to mean a system in which software didn't run from RAM, was severly resource limited, and in many cases, had to run with predicatable timing. It was also limited to solving a specific problem. In those systems, porting a conventional OS like Unix or Windows was totally out of the question.

The current definition seems to be a general purpose computing device that is no larger than a PC. Given this new definition, it's no surprise that Linux is dominant since it is free (as in beer) and backward compatibilty with Windows is not an issue.

Still in those projects where embedded really means something, I don't think Linux, Windows CE or any other standard OS can cut it.

Re:What does embedded mean these days?

[jilles]

The embedded world is also subject to moore's law. While 8 and 16 bit processors are still very dominant, 32 bit processors are rapidly being adopted. Combined with enough memory, linux is a very good choice for such systems. Since in many embedded devices, building the software is the critical path on the project, many embedded hardware vendors opt for 32 bit + linux rather than 16 bit and lots of development and licensing cost.

That's why basically all consumer electronics, mobile phones, etc. come with 32 bit processors and lots of memory. Mass produced electronics that go into kitchen appliances, cars, warches etc have a much smaller margins and for those things it is not (yet) economically feasible.

I read a paper from philips once describing the amount of memory in their television sets over the years. This was a paper from 96 I think and they were talking about 512kb. The observation they made was that this amount appeared to grow exponentially (up 64kb in the early nineties) growing to a predicted 4MB shortly after y2k. Assuming their prediction was accurate we are talking about embedded systems with between 4 an 32 MB for operating television sets right now. This is more than enough for running linux (although I'm not sure that Philips uses it).

Re:What does embedded mean these days?

[ClosedSource]

Perhaps you're thinking about digital TVs. Having an OS in a mainstream TV seems like the height of overkill to me.

When I was a kid, transistor radio makers would charge according to how many transistors the radio had. In some cases, however, most of the transistors were unity gain amplifiers that were added to pad the price. Perhaps someday consumer electronics companies will advertise, "Powered by Linux" but not actual run it.

The true story is not in the numbers...

[fidros]

A couple of years ago pSOS was the king of RTOS. Then came VxWorks and in the end WindRiver, owners of VxWorks, bought pSOS.

Fast forward several years into the future and now we have hordes of pSOS developer getting sub standart support (even for a propritery product) from WindRiver for pSOS, because they want them to move to VxWorks plus the added effect of a niche leader eating up it's major competition and therfore development of the part of the product which are basic being put on the side burner if favour of "optional" (and costly) componenets (Anyone said MMU? Networking?)

Then conmes Linux - Free as in source code availablity and no per unit license fees and guess what? Linux is the new pSOS, except that it's doing so well that even VxWorks shops are starting to notice and ask questions.

In short - Open Source economy at it's finest.

StdDisclaimer: I make a living supporting many Linux embedded clients.