NetBSD 2.0 Release Engineering Process Underway

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

NetBSD 2.0 Release Engineering Process Underway

Posted by Hemos on Monday March 29, 2004 @12:28AM from the planning-the-release dept.

jschauma writes "James Chacon of the NetBSD Release Engineering team has announced that the Release Engineering process for the much awaited NetBSD 2.0 release has begun! At this time, the expected final release is scheduled for the end of May 2004. Please see James' message to the netbsd-announce mailinglist for details."

31 of 54 comments (clear)

Min score:

Reason:

Sort:

Great news! by LizardKing · 2004-03-29 01:18 · Score: 4, Interesting

I've been running NetBSD -current (a bit like running Debian unstable for all you Linux types) since a little before the scheduler activations were merged in last year. I'd stuck with stable releases before that, but switched as -current got around some quirks in my oddball laptop that stable didn't.
My intial experiences with scheduler activations (which has a pthread compatible library layered on top of it), were a bit disappointing. Complex applications like Mozilla and some other desktop applications broke, as they relied on less than POSIX compliant features in certain other OS'es. Once those wrinkles were ironed out, -current became as rock solid as the stable releases.
The only thing NetBSD lacks once 2.0 is released is an ALSA compatability layer. Having read the scant, poorly written documentation on the ALSA website I'm at a loss to see what it really has that OSS doesn't, but that seems to be what Linux based MIDI and audio apps are migrating to.
Chris
1. Re:Great news! by yukonbob · 2004-03-29 06:52 · Score: 1
  
  The only thing NetBSD lacks once 2.0 is released is an ALSA compatability layer.
  
  That, and DRI in X. I've been using NetBSD for a year or so, and I love it. Everything feels well built. My biggest wish for it though is DRI. I'm currently running FreeBSD (which _does_ have DRI for X), but I'd be switching back the moment I heard Net had it.
  
  -yb
2. Re:Great news! by bccomm · 2004-03-30 01:48 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Actually, if you have a radeon or matrox card, you can get hardware acceleration. Just put
  
  X11DRI=yes
  -Bruce
NetBSD-current by ci4 · 2004-03-29 02:32 · Score: 1

I have been tracking (more or less on a weekly basis) -current on my laptop (Omnibook 6000, before that - -4000, using the same disk without reinstall...), as well as on a couple of servers and a workstation in the office, including an old IPX, some dual Athlon MPs, even a dual Opteron system. One needs a bit of time to get used to some quirks in the process, but the result is most rewarding, especially with the native threads (scheduler activations) in place. I do have occasional glitch - most likely due to my habit of using 'make replace' way too often to upgrade packages, but the stability generally has been excelent. I started with NetBSD at the time as it was the only BSD to support both the modem and the Ethernet part of my Xircom adapter (OpenBSD did not support the modem part, FreeBSD and - at least - Mandrake up to 9.2 - refused to install on the laptop for some reason - never bothered to check, as NetBSD did all what was required...).

If only there were a native pkg for OpenOffice (recent - the earlier port did not work at all under -current for me).
1. Re:NetBSD-current by LizardKing · 2004-03-29 03:12 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  If only there were a native pkg for OpenOffice (recent - the earlier port did not work at all under -current for me).
  The Linux binary package of OpenOffice runs perfectly on my laptop, as does the Linux version of Sun's JDK 1.4.2_04. If you've not tried running stuff under Linux emulation before, then give it a whirl. I run Java and the NetBeans IDE on a 256Mb NetBSD laptop where it is totally usable. On my desktop machine (same RAM, similar CPU), it crawls under Linux.
  In short, Linux emulation under NetBSD seems to be far more resource friendly than running native under Linux. Performance isn't noticably different, and anecdotal evidence suggests it's actually faster.
  Chris
2. Re:NetBSD-current by dotz · 2004-03-29 03:17 · Score: 1
  
  As NetBSD was the 1st BSD to have native OO.org compiled on it, I suppose it is only a lack of resources/patience to create updated OO.org package for it. BTW, hardware donations welcome.
3. Re:NetBSD-current by ci4 · 2004-03-30 01:49 · Score: 1
  
  I have; indeed sun-jre-1.4.2_05 works fine on the laptop; on the dual-cpu box I use in the office it seems to have problems; I am currently upgrading suse-* packages to see if the problem is in the emulation.
  (BTW ---
  > uname -a
  NetBSD ... 2.0A NetBSD 2.0A (GENERIC.MP) #0: Tue Mar 30 00:13:15 BST 2004 ...:/sys/arch/i386/compile/GENERIC.MP i386
  > file /bin/sh /bin/sh: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for NetBSD 2.0A, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped
  - both on the workstation and the laptop)
4. Re:NetBSD-current by ci4 · 2004-03-30 04:48 · Score: 1
  
  Got it... thanks for reminding me that it works...
  
  It might be useful for someone - DON'T symlink your home directory to the /emul/linux tree - OOo fails miserably...
5. Re:NetBSD-current by bccomm · 2004-03-30 11:18 · Score: 1
  
  I actually run a ``native'' version of the jdk. The latest patches from eyesbeyond.com for jdk 1.4 allow it to be bootstrapped under NetBSD.
  
  There was a recent post on the netbsd-current mailing list where some guy was even able to run eclipse with it, so I'd assume it's pretty good. Apparently the old SuSE 7.2 emulation (which might be something to update soon; I think Slackware with it's tgz packages would be more easily maintained) doesn't have GTK2, so pkgsrc has eclipse using motif bindings.
  
  -Bruce
I want NetBSD... by hummassa · 2004-03-29 02:52 · Score: 1

But it does not work with a really important component of my hardware inventory: USB wifi adapters. Once it does, I'll put it all on it.

--
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
1. Re:I want NetBSD... by LizardKing · 2004-03-29 03:04 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  There's a good chance it does work with your USB wifi adapter. I don't own any myself, but I've noticed plenty of discussions about them on the NetBSD mailing lists (mostly people adding quirks for more esoteric devices from what I recall).
  There should be a list of supported devices on the NetBSD website, although stuff that's only in -current may not be listed yet. If so, then you could either take a look at the GENERIC kernel config file, or ask on one of the excellent mailing lists.
  Chris
2. Re:I want NetBSD... by hummassa · 2004-03-29 04:39 · Score: 1
  
  Nope. Not there.
  
  --
  It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
3. Re:I want NetBSD... by Homology · 2004-03-30 09:09 · Score: 1
  
  But it does not work with a really important component of my hardware inventory: USB wifi adapters. Once it does, I'll put it all on it.
  I'm using an USB Wireless Netgear MA-111 (using a Prism 3 chipset) on OpenBSD -current, and it works quite well. No support for HostAP for USB Wireless yet.
Re:Preemptive BSD post by LizardKing · 2004-03-29 03:34 · Score: 1

What other forums are available to BSD users?
The mailing lists for NetBSD and FreeBSD are excellent. The OpenBSD ones tend to get cluttered up with spam, as the list admins (if they exist) seem to be a bit lax.
Chris
Re:Preemptive BSD post by LizardKing · 2004-03-29 03:43 · Score: 4, Informative

Not sure what your getting at. I assume you're talking about comparisons between Scheduler Activations and the plethora of scheduler algorithms available for Linux. NetBSD's SA is not a conventional scheduler in the "new, expermental one every week" Linux sense. They are a sophisticated system that allows layering of higher level abstractions like POSIX threads.
Chris
Re:Preemptive BSD post by dotz · 2004-03-29 04:15 · Score: 1

http://deadly.org
Re:RAID5 performance between Linux, NetBSD and Fre by obirt · 2004-03-29 05:26 · Score: 1
- 9/2003 is really old for current.
- Softdeps != journaling, of course journaling is going to win vs. soft deps. Duh.
- RAIDframe still has a ways to go
- Default file system creation options for NetBSD ffs are far from optimal on high power systems. Tweaking those would probably give a significant performance boost, with or without softdeps.
- BSD developers typically do not sacrifice portability for speed. It was not so long ago that Linux distros had async file I/O on ext2 without journaling. Naturally async is going to be faster than the default safer sync option on ffs.
--

I use to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.
OpenBSD's packer filter by kivaapina · 2004-03-29 08:00 · Score: 1

Does this mean that OpenBSD's packet filter don't make it to 2.0? Well, I don't worry much because some one will surely port it later.
1. Re:OpenBSD's packer filter by JustinXB · 2004-03-29 16:27 · Score: 1
  
  Chances are it will never be merged into NetBSD, which is sad because it's a kick ass packet filter. Why? Because one of the core developers is friends with the guy who created the current packet filter.
2. Re:OpenBSD's packer filter by tecneeq · 2004-03-30 04:39 · Score: 1
  
  Are you able to explain the situation further or is what you write just a guess?
  
  Karsten
3. Re:OpenBSD's packer filter by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-30 08:07 · Score: 1, Informative
  
  Quote Luke Mewburn from newsforge.com interview:
  
  PF and IPF -- is there a religion war?
  
  Not really. I prefer IPF myself, but that's probably because I know Darren Reed personally so I can ask him IPF questions in person :-) IPF is portable across many platforms, including various commercial Unix variants, and that is a benefit for heterogenous sites with those systems.
  
  http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/03/02 /1 946219
  
  Of course it rocks - NetBSD. by alph.
4. Re:OpenBSD's packer filter by tecneeq · 2004-03-30 08:42 · Score: 1
  
  To me that doesn't mean anything, only that Luke prefers IPF (for a very good reason if you ask me). As a matter of fact there are technical reasons why pf is not yet commited: http://news.gw.com/netbsd.tech.net/9814 Karsten
ISO images by Burb · 2004-03-29 20:35 · Score: 1

Can anyone make a guess as to when some i386 ISO images might be available for testing? Thanks.

--
1. Re:ISO images by Anonymous Coward · 2004-03-30 04:36 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Not sure there will ever be "2.0 beta" ISO's. However, they're really easy to create yourself, and some users on the lists (current-users, I think: search http://mail-index.netbsd.org/current-users/) are creating unofficial ones.
  
  To roll your own: Go to http://releng.netbsd.org/ to find out the latest sucessful build (so far, it's still -current, soon the 2.0 branch builds should appear), specifically at http://releng.netbsd.org/ab/B_HEAD/arch.html
  
  Look for your arch (i386, I'm guessing?) and note down the date of the "Last Success" build.
  
  Now go to ftp://releng.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD-daily/current/
  and download the contents of the directory corresponding to your architecture. Use wget -r, it'll be about 150M. You have everything to make a bootable CD at this point.
  
  See http://netbsd.org/Documentation/bootcd.html on how to make a bootable CD out of what you just downloaded: actually, it's a single mkisofs command if you're doing it for i386:
  
  mkisofs -o output.iso \
  -b i386/installation/floppy/boot-big.fs \
  -c boot.catalog \
  -l -J -R -L /your/dir/with/the/data
  
  Make sure the resulting iso image has the arch directory (eg i386 or sparc) on the top level.
  
  Enjoy!
  Joachim Thiemann
2. Re:ISO images by LizardKing · 2004-03-30 06:31 · Score: 1
  
  You could always download daily snapshots from the release engineering server:
  releng.netbsd.org
  I update my laptop once a month by downloading the tar files from the i386/binary/sets directory, and then using the install floppies from the i386/installation/floppy directory. Alternatively, making a bootable CD from the releng snapshots is very easy as this page explains.
  Chris
3. Re:ISO images by Burb · 2004-03-31 03:10 · Score: 1
  
  Thanks to both of you for the advice.
  
  --
My NetBSD Experience by mvdw · 2004-03-30 15:31 · Score: 1

I am basically a linux weenie forced to use NetBSD because my hardware (DEC alpha 3000/400) won't run anything else. Compatibility is good, system is rock solid, but it's a real bitch to configure. There's a lot of manual tweaking to do after installation (especially networking), which is a real PITA. I can understand the services issues, but it would be nice if I could say during install "just use DHCP" and everything would Just Work (tm). Linux Just Works, Windows Just Works, but netBSD won't resolve addresses (ie, it doesn't get its DNS server off the DHCP), nor will it setup the network properly (ie, automagically). I still have some more tweaking to do on the latest install (1.6.2), and hopefully I can get it all working, but it's just a general pain.
Admittedly, this is a fairly obscure platform, so the install scripts probably aren't as well developed as, say, i386, but still, it'd be nice...
1. Re:My NetBSD Experience by bccomm · 2004-03-30 17:45 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Have you tried the sushi tool that comes with the base system? Admittedly, it isn't in widespread use, but it's good for quick configuration changes (esp. with networking).
  
  -Bruce
  -----------
  |\|3+85D: f0r +h3 r3a1 133+ h4x0r5. Those who know will attest! They will agree! They already use it! They won't use annoying hacker-esque stereotypes!
2. Re:My NetBSD Experience by mvdw · 2004-03-30 17:52 · Score: 1
  
  I haven't heard of it, but will give it a go when I'm next in front of that machine. It isn't a high priority to get this machine going, but it'd be nice to have it running so I can say I've got an alpha...
3. Re:My NetBSD Experience by LizardKing · 2004-03-30 21:30 · Score: 1
  
  It's strange that using DHCP doesn't update your /etc/resolv.conf file. The default configuration does just that on my i386, Sparc, Vax and NeXT machines. Do you have a custom /etc/dhclient.conf? If so, then something in there may be inhibiting the DHCP client from updating your resolver file.
  As for DHCP "just working" during the install, have you tried enabling the network from the utility menu of the installer? If you do a network install, then you are automatically prompted to setup the network. If you do a CD install, then you have to go into the utility menu and do it yourself prior to installing. Then when you finish the install you will be prompted whether you want to save the network configuration.
  Chris
4. Re:My NetBSD Experience by mvdw · 2004-03-31 11:54 · Score: 1
  
  I'll try doing that by reinstalling; I don't think I had done the network setup during installation.
  Thanks for the heads up.