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Hello Mary Sue, Goodbye Flawed RPG Characters
Thanks to Skotos.net for its article discussing the problems of perfect 'Mary Sue' characters in online MUD/MUSH environments. The author starts by explaining: "Mary Sue is what, in writing, is called an author avatar, wherein the writer creates an idealized version of him/herself and sticks the resulting character into the story." But as this is part of playing games, what's the big deal? It's argued: "The herd of people trampling over each other to be the most at something, be it beauty, wealth, or grotesqueness, is going to affect everyone else's characters. For starters, if the standard for beauty has been raised so high that pretty people are average, the average characters are now ugly. If the standard for wealth goes from a million dollars to a trillion, the millionaires are the new middle class. It messes with the game's dynamic, and that's bound to make people who are trying to create reasonable and balanced characters cranky."
Cool, then by that definition, I'm perfect :D :P
And all you guys are below me
(This is a joke people, laugh)
This is the sig that says NI (again)
people who spend an innordinant amount of time crafting a gritty dramatic version of themselves are displeased when their unreal life begins to go the way of their real life?
And they've been determined to be cranky? My God, what a revelation! New Bibles will need to be printed!!
No you don't, but I'll say it anyway :)
First of all, since I am not too familiar with non-graphical (and thus, non-commercial) multi-player dungeons (such as EQ, UO, and Asheron's call on the commercial side) I cannot safely say something along the lines of "but how can they even create perfect characters when there are limitations?", but what I can say is this; if there are no limitations, there should be!
This may not be completely relevant but I've played Diablo II back when it was...normal, and I've seen some characters (specifically barbarians, amazons and paladins) that each was unbeatable by anything that you attack it with other than the above three, kind of like rock paper scissors, barbarians would beat amazons who would beat paladins who would beat barbarians, and so the cycle went on.
When little old level 87 amazon me tried to intefere, I got as they say...my ass wooped, so I understand what this article is talking about, and sometihng has to be done.
On the extreme side a solution might be to just completely erase everything in such games every few months, but that would simply annoy everyone, including mary sues.
On the less extreme side, people could be appointed to watch for such perfect characters when being created in various games and to make them a bit less perfect as needed.
I wonder if this will even get read.
Sadly, the article is correct when it says these sorts of characters will always be around. What we've attempted to do is give new players or those we see with potential 'Mary Sue' characters some pointers and advice, along with some educational writing about how to make a good player character. That's really the best one can do.
--Kylus
Idiot-proof something, and Life will build a better Idiot.
I'm not seeing a problem with anything. If you make your character within the permissible rules of the game, you've done nothing wrong.
There are a lot of people better than you in a certain area in real life, MMOs are no different. Some people want to roleplay and some want to wreck shop, each group pays their $9.95 per month.
I'm on top of my game like I'm standin' on Xbox.
Some people haven't thought through this "roleplaying" thing enough to realize that it's not just about them. People who try to play the absolute bestest of the bestest need to realize that what they're doing is not just aggrandizing themselves, but putting great effort into upstaging others with their wishfully wondrous accomplishments.
On the Bartle scale, I'd have to qualify someone like that either as a KS- or a SK-. They couldn't care less about the world, all they want to deal with is the people, and the preferred form of dealing-with is "oohing and ahhing."
These people need a dose of balance, and not necessarily administered orally either. There are no shortage of point-based systems (like Hero or GURPS) which will enforce power level restrictions through scarcity. They will try to build their ubercharacter, fail, and then say that this is a stupid game, of course. (Sour grapes make the best whine.) Coerce them however you can to build something that fits in with everyone else, and then remind them repeatedly that it's an ensamble game, and that everyone else has a part in it too.
Yes, I know, those aren't MU* systems. But there are places that run them. As I run one of them, I won't publish any links; I don't want to slashdot myself!
You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert until you read it in the original Klingon.
It's really not at all like the powergamer/munchkin rants. It's a seperate situation that's really only a 'problem', in games where one person literally can not be more powerful than any other.
You don't mind powergamers, because they don't bother you while you play a game. With Free form Role Playing (FFRP), Mary Sues can and do get in the way of other player's stories.
Mary-Sues are a trend that's only 'a problem' in free-form roleplaying MUSHES, MOOS and IRC RP (FFRP). These games have no hard and fast 'rule' systems, and leave all aspects of storytelling up to the players -- a sort of authorship anarchy. The only rules regarding character design and interaction are social rules.
If you want your vampire to have the BFG9000 that destroys Chicago - you can have it. Players might choose to ignore you, or even warn/ban egregious offenders - but they can't actually stop you from doing it. Similarly, there is no BFG, there is no Chicago, and there is no result of your destruction - unless other players decide to react to it.
If you've never seen it done, it likely seems entirely arbitrary, or at least, off-the-wall. Even after you've seen it done - most wonder how it can be consistantly fun. But that's neither here nor there. People do enjoy it - but it relies on everyone to cooperate. It's more communal authorship, or spontaneous play-acting, than traditional game playing.
Mary Sue's are unavoidable in FFRP, because while everyone likes to play games - not everyone is a good author. Free-form Roleplaying relies on players to not step on each other's toes and to be at least decent storytellers.
It's for that reason that 'idealized' characters are looked down upon. Not because they're 'best' but because those characters have been done to death - and their stories are old hat.
Even well-behaved 'perfect' Mary Sues are considered undesireable because their perfection denies the opportunity for character growth through storytelling. Their flawless moral compass removes any chance at dramatic tension, or emotional weight to conflict (because the perfect Mary-Sue will always win).
Archetyped Mary Sues (E.g. knockoff Drizzts, Rasputins, and Sherlocks) are considered undesireable because those characters have been done to death. Few people want to read yet another story where Holmes catches the villain whilst everyone else bumbles about. So in the average social setting, most people won't want to cooperate with the stories such players want to tell.
Much of the 'fun' people have in FFRP, is in the creation of their own character, and the discovery of other characters. With Mary Sue's - this entire aspect is lost.
In other persistent worlds that have rule systems (MUDs/EQ/UO/etc), at the worst Mary Sues becomes snicker-worthy. Someone might roleplay a Mary Sue in EQ, but just because they want to be the greatest warrior ever doesn't mean anything. They have to work through the system like everyone else. They don't automatically have the power to completely derail the story being told by others. (arguably because there isn't one, not in the same way as in an FFRP)
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
You're not making the right distinction between MMORPGs and MUDs/MUSHs.
t /Barbarian/Healer/Paladin/Thief, son of three or more assorted Gods and their unholy union with the Queen of someplace-or-other who seems to suddenly know the exact skills he needs suddenly every time he gets into a new situation?
t /Barbarian/Healer/Paladin/Thief, whereas specialists who accept weaknesses (by not leveling every skill in the book) will have a functional character in a fraction of the play-time, and can then go on to master other skills as well.
MMORPGs make you do all the work with character development - you're actions determine your experience gain and income, your reputation and "background" doesn't extend before you clicked "Continue" on the character creation screen.
That's one cup of tea.
MUDs/MUSHs tend to work more like table-top pen-and-paper RPGs. How would you like it if you were playing D&D, and you're friend insisted on being Lotar - the rich, dashing, heroic Warrior/Wizard/Fighter/Cleric/Archer/Shaman/Pries
It's annoying in MMORPGs, but they're mostly marketed to that kind of player, and they usually make you spend years making a functional Warrior/Wizard/Fighter/Cleric/Archer/Shaman/Pries
In MUDs, where interaction between players and continuing storylines are the top priorities, one or two characters like this can really fsck up the game as a whole. Also, those characters who take weaknesses initially often can't diversify later, or are limited in their ability to do so. There the main reason I quit playing those games.
Some of them even give players the power to *create* characters already on the road to the aforementioned ludicrous state of being, and lets them do whatever bizzare thing the player can type (like, to continue the example used in the article, having quintadecituplets, only to have somebody else have twins without the help of a wife just to outdo you), and leave the "rules" to be enforced by GMs or even the players as a whole.
She's a psychologist and believes that it means I have a positive self-image. I'm not sure if she's right (who am I to disagree with a psychologist, though?) but I has made me think about the dynamics of character choosing in something like an MMORPG. A male friend of mine on FFXI chose to be a Mithra (the "catgirl" race). His view was that he thought the Mithra would be good as monks in the game... but he's also a huge anime fan and I wonder how much something like Outlaw Star (or the thousands of other "catgirls" in anime) may have subconsciously informed his decision.
Then I look at the diminutive Tarutarus in the games and wonder how many of them are males. They're so small and "cute" that I don't know how many men would choose that race, or how many women would choose the huge, hulking Galka race...
The only MMORPG I've ever played is FFXI, so I can't speak to EQ or any of the others... but have people had similiar questions about their online companions? Is there more of a chance for idealizing a character in one of those?