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Suggestions for an Ergonomic Mouse?
pawul13 asks: "I've seen lots of articles and suggestions on ergonomic keyboards (and I have the excellent kinesis version, which helps tremendously), but what about mice? I'm currently experiencing a lot of pain, but only in my 'mouse' wrist. I have a semi-ergo Logitech, but it's not doing it. Does anyone have suggestions for the best ergo mouse (Trackball, optical, whatever, it doesn't matter)?" There was a similar question from January, but it may have been too limited.
The best mouse is symmetrical, and works left-handed and right-handed both. It either has no scroll-wheel, or has a very low wheel so it isn't bumped all the time when reaching the index finger to the left mouse button (I'm tired of having to gouge out the scroll wheel because it is always getting in the way of simple mouse clicks)
One of the ladies here at work complained about her wrist being sore from being at a PC for 8 hours a day. We gave her a trackball, and I have not seen her extension # show up on my phone since.
Give it a shot.
Still waiting for the thought-controlled input device, but then I guess that will just give you a headache instead :-)
Wacom has a wonderful selection of writing tablets for various uses (web designer, artist, general use, etc...) and I have found it to be quit relaxing and natural to use, especially if you grew up using pencil and paper to do things. According to their website, it helps reduce Repetitive Stress Injury, and they have several testimonials to that effect.
Actually, there was a short segment on Daily Planet the other day that mentioned mouse hand pains. They stated that researchers had determined that just moving your mouse to the other side of the keyboard and using your other hand was enough to make a lot of the pains go away and never come back!
Basic idea: you reach past your number keys to get to the mouse, so moving to the other side reduces hand travel to get there. And anyone can adapt to the mouse on the other side, even without changing buttons... Try it, and you may not have to spend money to solve your problems.
Anyway...
On Arrakis: early worm gets the bird. Magister mundi sum!
I dunno, those kinds of interface devices always look like they would cause a bad case of gorilla arm.
Also, I agree with another poster that a large part of the problem is because of that silly numeric keypad wasting 6" of space past the right side of my keyboard. Might be worth finding a keyboard without that (course, they're really useful when typing numbers, but that's another matter).
I also suspect that a lot of extra effort is put into pressing , since it's so far away. I've actually adapted into pressing ^H by habit. But that doesn't always work: brings up browser history, etc. Also, if you accidentally type rm -rf / and mean to hit ^H but miss and hit ^J....
This is actually made by 3M. Its called the 3M(TM) Ergonomic Mouse, you can find it at many retailers.
t nG=Search+Froogle
http://www.3m.com/ergonomics/ergonomicmouse.jhtml
Comes in two size, small/medium and large.
I used one for a summer when I was an intern at SGI. It really reduces wrist pain, but its a bit "slower" and takes about 2 weeks to get used to it. Seems less precise than a regular mouse too.
A Froogle finds average price about $50.
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=EM500GPS-AM&b
Bobby
Many of my co-workers use these mice from Contour Designs.
You can check them out here
an ergonomic mouse forces your hand to always have the exact same position. Hence, the movements will always be the same and repetitive.
You'd be best off with the old amiga mouses or something: square. You'd end up shifting your hand from time to time since it's uncomfortable, in the long run it's more comforatble.
the pun is mightier than the sword
My favorite has been this one (Logitech Trackman Marble FX) for a long time now. Unfortunately, Logitech no longer manufactures them, so good luck finding it. But it has an oversize ball, so you get greater precision and less strain, and the positioning of the ball is such that you can use all your fingers (except maybe the pinkie) on the ball, so you don't have one finger getting all the traffic. It's a little weird to get used to at first, because you have to use your thumb rather than index finger to double/middle click and your ring finger to right click, but it becomes natural enough over time. Any kind of trackball is going to be easier on your wrist than a mouse though....
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
Having a mouse that is comfortable for you is important (and highly dependent on personal preference), but how you use it is even more important. Many people end up gripping the mouse tightly, angling their hand up, and using the wrist for side to side motion too much. A light touch, letting the mouse go when not using it, and using your entire arm will help quite a bit. Also, just taking short breaks every 30 minutes to an hour will really help.
Oops. Link is wrong -- Sorry 'bout that. Was replying to a myth with an article from snopes.
The actual link to the optical trakcball is here.
Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
How about something from www.fingerworks.com It looks like a glorified touch pad, but i've been tempted to buy one to give me more one hand capabilities.
The FingerWorks iGesture touchpad is a zero force, no button, standard USB interface mouse that has none of the annoying features of standard touchpads and is just as efficient as a standard mouse with none of the strain.
It uses different finger combinations to trigger different mouse functions such as left click, right click, drag, scroll wheel, and so on. It can sense which fingers you are using, and most importantly, it doesn't trigger mouse motion when you accidentally brush your hand against it because it can tell the difference between your fingers and your hand.
The iGesture pad is good enough to recommend even to people without wrist pain. But for anyone who actually is suffering physical strain from mouse use, it's almost a no-brainer.
(I have no relationship to FingerWorks except as a user of their products.)
However, I wonder if there isn't something more with CT/RSI. Why, for instance, do some people suffer from it, while others don't? For instance, I have never had (and here's hoping I don't ever have, from what I have read of the pain, it is HORRIBLE) any form of wrist or hand pain on a recurring, repeatable basis.
I have been using computers for almost 20 years now. If anything, I should be a case for "computer ailments". My first computer was a TRS-80 Color Computer 2 when I was 10 years old. I had it hooked up to a 19 inch color TV in my bedroom that I sat right in front of ("don't sit too close or you'll go blind" - I guess my parents didn't believe that applied with a computer - I used that TV as a *monitor*. MMM...32x16 black on green - ok, I'll admit, I am pretty nearsighted). From that time on I have pretty much sat in front of a computer of one sort or another coding.
Twenty plus years later here I am typing some more, and I haven't had any carpal flareups or anything like I have heard described. I have had minor pain in one wrist, that went away when I stopped - so I would stop, but that hasn't happened to me in months, if not over a year. It wasn't anything like the pain I hear described by sufferers of CT/RSI - so I think I just was tired, so I rested - seemed simple (or, maybe I did, and I did the right thing to stop?).
I have a wristrest in front of my keyboard at work, and at home I use a Model M (yay, clicky!)...
Is it me, am I lucky? Could it be a genetic predisposition for some folks? Are they doing something or working in a manner different from me that causes it? I will admit that I don't have a normal typing style, it is kinda "homegrown" over the years - is this the reason? Do people with CT/RSI who use keyboards tend to be those who practice real typing skills? Could these skills, being applied to a type of keyboard (that is, soft electronic, not mechanical) not in existence when the style of teaching was thought up (ie, back when typewriters were first being made), be the problem?
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
The other day I saw someone using a similar product to this Vertical Mouse. I tried it out and it seemed pretty convenient.. Maybe it can solve your problem
Gujju
There are more than 100 different medical problems that the lower arm/wrist/hands can have. What will solve one problem may make a different one worse. You have to find what works for you. The ideas that others have poster may help. If your case is bad enough a good doctor might be able to help too.
Some things that might help (in addition to what others have said): learn piano. Seriously, a good piano teacher will sit over you with a ruler and give you a good whack every time your poster gets off, take these habits to the computer and you better off. Note too that musicans have been facing problems like this for years (hundreds if not thousands), so if after getting the advice of your piano teacher it doesn't go away, you they can often recommend doctors who know more about this type of problem than the average doctor.
Get a big trackball and place it on the floor. Rig up some foot pedals (at least for the left button...), and train your feet to do the work. You will still need a mouse for precision work, but this can take a lot of load off your hands.
Stretch. Search the web and you will come up with a bunch of hand stretches. I find they help me, they might help you.
Get in shape. Exercise can help in surprising ways, so if you are not in shape do it.
Take a vacation. When my wrist problems got the worst, nothing was helping. After a week in the backcountry in a canoe I came back with no pain. All those tricks I was doing before prevented the problems from coming back. I needed time to heal though before they would work.
Remember, nobody here is a medical doctor. Seek professional help if you need it. If things are getting worse stop.
2-1/2 inch heavy trackball. Buttons that don't click, they "thwack". The older models look like something from NORAD, but the newer ones...well, look like something from NORAD. Usually sold by companies that sell equipment for people with disabilities and the Armed Forces. With a standard mouse or trackball, you keep too many muscles rigid and tense to be precise. With a P+G, you just move the massive trackball. Remember Missile Command? Imagine it on your desk...oh, and around $300-$400 USD each. I've rebuilt one of mine twice (its from 19...87?).
The 3M joystick mouse seemed like a good idea, but most of the people we had try it didn't like it. We have just started using the Evoluent Vertical Mouse and so far the feedback has been extremely positive.
I paid the going retail price for a Windows screen reader and got a free Unix computer!
I'm coding for a living, meaning I often sit 12-16 hours a day in front of the computer. I tried half a dozen mice for comfort and ease of use, because my right wrist started to hurt like hell. and then I found the solution - a 10 euro mousepad with a gel pad. you rest your wrist on it while using the mouse. within days, my wrist pain was gone. sure, it somehow hinders your movement, meaning I now suck at unreal tournament, but that's a small price to pay.
I guess you should be able to pick up a gel mousepad (and a matching keyboard pad) at any computer store, if not, here is a link.
Karma
Hell, I'd settle for one that's not friggin' tiny. I have big hands, and it seems to me that mice just get smaller and smaller as the years go by... I wish there was an equivalent to the IBM model M for pointing devices...
*sigh*
I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!