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More on Scammers Abusing TTY Services
edward ericson writes "A more comprehensive look at IP Relay scams and their effect on relay operators, the deaf, US business and the relay providers like Sprint, AT&T and MCI. Unlike a previous piece in the AZ Star, this one shows that the problem is at least a year old, and estimates that the companies have earned at least $23 million by facilitating scams. Anyone here care to discuss IP blocking techniques?" See our previous story for more.
It's more or less proven now that this system is implemented very poorly. IP-based TTY calls should be suspended until an effective authentication solution is in place.
The deaf people with computers can still get to this service by using their modems as a TTY terminal, and by calling a 1-800 number, there would be effective proof that the call is coming through the USA. Data calls don't get along well with VoIP services...
The privacy pledge is turning out to be too strict. Clearly, these people know when they're being taken advantage of... but they're not allowed to do anything about it.
I work overnights in a call center, doing mostly tech support, but I am in a overflow buffer for a customer service/retail catalog. These calls are some crazy stuff. They take forever, the person is slow to respond, always wants the item shipped right now, before we run the credit card. It's always obscene amounts of stuff too. For example they may call and ask for one thing, and you say we are out, then they take the next item up, 5-10 of them. They are items that people would never buy more than 1 of, maybe 2. Does the company care? The outsourcing company doesn't, they are getting paid per call. The retailer, doesn't seem to care as much as they should. I don't know how various write-offs work, but my guess is they probably use this in their taxes, the fraud loss I mean. The relay(phone) companies need to put a stop to this.
Will somebody just pull africas isdn line out of the wall.
Seriously... a "data embargo" against Nigeria may very well be deserved at this point. They've clearly got a problem enforcing their own anti-scam laws.
They should be busting these scam rings up, or admitting that they can't and seeking help in doing so. The fact that this isn't happening is very deserving... why do we want them as a data trade partner?
Go to phonelosers.net for some info on TTY related pranks, including, but not limited to:
1. making the TTY operator saying funny things("PLA go away")
2. Prank calling your friends across the USA via 800 numbers
3. Don't have a voice changer? use the TTY relay operator's voice!
RedBoxChiliPepper and friensds have been doing fun TTY for years!
You suggest an interesting solution to a rampant problem, but I'm afraid it couldn't possibly be an effective way to stop the traffic coming out of nigeria. A simple proxy will allow the scammer to do whatever he/she wants to do. Heck, I'm relaying my connection from my university to my home with little to no effort at all -- I'm sure our enterprising nigerian scammers could very easily do the same.
And keep in mind, it's not only nigerians that are doing the scamming. Now that this method is being widely published, it'll definitely spread like wildfire until something definite is done about the problem. Don't forget that it wasn't too long ago that credit card fraud through little online shops was rampant (and many "pandits" were crying the online shopping world would crumble), but things changed. People learn especially quickly when they are losing money that they need to be wary of fradulent occurences.
Perhaps what's most needed is an embargo on dimwitted idiots. Then we won't have to worry about people getting so easily scammed. Perhaps that even goes for the laws relating to the governance of the TTY service. It's a shame it's come to this.
The person on the other end wanted to order 40,000 of our EverLED LED flashlight bulbs. We only sold 1000 of these in all of last year. At $40 a pop, most people only want to buy one. So right away warning bells went off in my head. Some toolbag wants to buy $1,600,000 worth of product from a retailer he has no relationship with and he is doing it over TTY relay???
I figured I'd try to find out a little more about the individual. I asked him where he was from. "Nigeria." WHOOP WHOOP DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!! Needless to say I cut the conversation short.
It was a very difficult exchange, the Nigerian used broken english that neither myself nor the operator could really understand. It must have been very frustrating for the operator, I felt bad for her. The whole exchange took about an hour, it was extremely tedious. And it was a complete waste of my time. Thankfully that hour is ALL I lost.
The Nigerian tried to call me back TWICE both times using the TTY relay, of course I wasn't about to give him any more of my time. Selling $1.6 million worth of product via TTY relay is unconventional, but I don't discriminate against the disabled. I do NOT however do business with ANYBODY in or from Nigeria.
-73, de n1ywb
www.n1ywb.com
I am currently employed by an online retailer. We've been dealing with this problem for at least TWO years. The basic scenario goes something like this: we receive an order placed online with an obscene total, next day shipping, a yahoo email addy, or a combination of other flags that tell us it's fraud. The credit card address verification always comes back "does not match" in these cases. Then we send them a polite email stating that we can't process their order any further until the address does match. Within minutes the call center receives a call from an IP relay operator. Occasionally, they don't identify themselves as IP operators. So we always ask "Is this an IP relay call?" So far, they've never denied it. (In the last two years we've documented ONE TTY call.) At this point we accept the call and then explain to the scammer that we can't accept IP relay calls and that they should send us an email. Shortly thereafter we get an email from a different yahoo account that reads like a 419 scam. It's fun.
Basically, the theory is that if someone is legitimately using the service, they're perfectly capable of sending email. The benefit is that we minimize the time spent dealing with scammers.
If anyone else has methods of dealing with this nonsense, I'd love to hear it.
What's likewise crazy about online fraud to me is the following scenario.
As an online merchant, we see online orders that are clearly fraudulent. But the credit card still goes through (we 'authorize' first which just deducts from your credit limit). We decide not to take the order; thus we don't do a 'capture' on the card that would deduct the money from the poor guy's credit card account. That way we avoid getting charge-backs that would ruin our merchant rating and that would cost us in the end anyway (if caught). But we do log that credit card # in our database. Sometimes SIX MONTHS LATER the fraudster will use that same credit card # on our site again and it is *still* being accepted by Visa/Mastercard!
This is a broken system. As a merchant, we have no way (that I know of) to warn Visa/MasterCard or the issuing bank or the card holder that the number is being used for fraud! (Besides just going ahead and charging the card, knowing its fraud.) Certainly not an automated way to do so in the same way that we connect to payment gateways. It's just not in Visa's/Mastercard's interest to put a system in place because at the end of the day, the merchant is liable.
I'm interested if anyone knows of a place where merchants can swap info about fraudulent cards or other fraud data.
--LP
Having worked at the National Technical Institute for the Deaf, I can tell you that IP Relay is the hottest thing there. Computer kiosks that were set up in the building used to be pointing to web pages within the school. When I left in 2002, most every time I walked past them, the browsers were opened to the Sprint IP-Relay center.
I wonder. If people shit on the commons, can we go back and chase them off with a gun?
--You will rephrase your request for me to go to hell. Goto statements are not acceptable programming constructs
Many deaf people are going away from the TTYs and are using fax machines.
At least that what my parents and their friends are doing.
There are some perfectly legal things they can do to make these calls as poor quality as possible. For example, relay operators are allowed to hand the call off to another operator (e.g., use the bathroom in the middle of a long call, etc). They can also speak the text with long pauses between words, etc. Driving the quality of service for these types of calls down would very quickly make the mark less willing to stay on the line. However, this would give the relay a bad name in the hearing community.
... No?... (stock explaination, follwed by) Please be aware that some calls placed through the relay are overseas fraud. Operators are not allowed to terminate calls but if you suspect fraud at any time, you may hang up..."
Alternatively, CAs are allowed to deliver a short instruction about the service. One could easily imagine a modification: "Have you ever used the relay before?
Didst said trolle violate thine precious IP?
Yep. I don't have the money to go filing pointless lawsuits that I doubt I'd see anything from... but maybe it'd be cool to just force Slashdot to cough up the IP address of the "anonymous" troll.
Art thou's commentes no longer valid?
They sure are still vaild. I don't disagree with myself very often.
A warning like that would be absolutely perfect. It's short, precise and tells people exactly what they should be aware of.
Eat the rich.