Japanese Inventor's Motor Uses 80% Less Power

novakane007 writes "A Japanese inventor named Kohei Minato has created a new kind of motor. It uses magnetism to perpetuate the motor motion. As a result the motors uses 80% less energy than a conventional motor, while still maintaing the same horsepower. "Minato assures us that he hasn't transcended the laws of physics. The force supplying the unexplained extra power out is generated by the magnetic strength of the permanent magnets embedded in the rotor. 'I'm simply harnessing one of the four fundamental forces of nature,' he says." On top of the energy savings the motor runs cool to the touch and is significantly quieter than a tradtitionally powered fan. Sound to good to be true? Well he's already started selling the fan to a chain of convience stores in Japan. Hopefully soon the design will make it in to your home PC, allowing them to run much quieter."

Comments

Quiet PCs?

[octalc0de]

"Hopefully soon the design will make it in to your home PC, allowing them to run much quieter"

What? I wasn't quite aware that computers generated their own power yet... Also, the article says the engines are quite large- probably impossible to be able to use them in a laptop setup. Plus, anyway, power supplies are quite quiet anyway, and they don't generate their own power. The problem with the noise from computers these days is unbearably loud hard drives and harsh fans.

Re:Quiet PCs?

[molarmass192]

You can buy pretty damned quiet PC fans, however, you're right that today's hard drives are louder than hell. Also, I'd bet that they generate a lot more case heat than they let on. That said, am I losing my mind or didn't I read back in 1993 that we'd all be using solid state hard drives by now??? Guess that was a sure thing in the days of $600 hard drives.

Re:Quiet PCs?

[JPriest]

Magnetic assist motors have been around for a while. They have traditionally been written off as not worth the cost and energy required to charge the magnets. A more efficient design this could be, but a ground breaking change in the world? Probably not.

Re:Quiet PCs?

[nih]

if you use the anti-vibration mounts @ http://www.quietpc.com/uk/harddrive.php#hdrubbermo unts the noise vanishes, or you can get the heatpipe cooler @ http://www.quietpc.com/uk/harddrive.php#zm2hc1 , btw the mounts can be ordered separately, just mail them for info, its also best to attach a drive with the heatpipe cooler to the base of the case, temp went from 50c to 35c.

Re:Quiet PCs?

[the morgawr]

Motors are efficient enough (75-80% is typical for variable speed applications). Most of the losses involved are in storing and supplying the power. If you reduce input power to the motor by 80%, you just ended up with better then 100% efficiency, something that can't happen. See my post further down for my extrapolation of what this motor could actually be on a really good day

To make a viable, sellable purely electric car, you need batteries that weight AT LEAST 1/4 as much and cost 1/10th as much as today's best.

While we're at it, inventing power transistors that are nearly lossless would be nice, since switching losses are the other major diffuculty.

Measurement error or fraud?

[Spamalamadingdong]

I could probably make a device that could take 16 watts in and generate 300 volt-amperes (AC) out - but the volt-amperes would be almost 90 degrees out of phase, and the power factor would be less than 5%. The real power out of the device would be substantially less than 16 watts. There is no way in physics to have more than 1 watt out per watt in, "magical magnets" or no. If the device was extracting energy from the magnets, they would be depleted and the device would run down after a while. That's 2nd semester physics, basic E&M.

Either the proponents of this device are complete incompetents, or they are complete frauds. I'm inclined to believe the latter, as incompetents tend not to have the sales skills evident in the article

Re:Just to be clear..

[MyFourthAccount]

So there's nothing real to be seen here. Move on.

But, "In Japan, no one pays for 40,000 convenience store cooling fans without being reasonably sure that they are going to work."

And if that didn't convince you:

Hopefully soon the design will make it in to your home PC, allowing them to run much quieter.

Because we all know that the noise generated by the fan comes from the motor and not from air hitting the fan.

How can you contradict such a logical and fact laden article?

CompactFlash

[tepples]

didn't I read back in 1993 that we'd all be using solid state hard drives by now??? Guess that was a sure thing in the days of $600 hard drives.

Pricewatch.com tells me I can get a CompactFlash card reader for USB for under 20 USD and a 2 GB CF card for under 200 USD. There also exist adapters to plug CF cards into ATA cables. It seems that the desire for more capacity in a 3.5" desktop HD enclosure has outpaced the desire for larger persistent solid-state memory in desktop machines.

Re:Possibly not...

[BobTheLawyer]

What's to say it isn't powered by giant invisible lamas?

There is no "interesting anomaly", there's just a claim phrased in the language of junk science. We don't find new models for physics on the basis of undocumented, unreviewed, unrepeated claims.

Re:In this article, we do not violate the laws

[microwave_EE]

I suppose that if he's quickly depleting the stored magnetic field on the permanent magnets that he could get out more electrical power than he put in, but that would only work for a couple rotations of the ol' motor. Aside from that, it don't matter which of the "four fundamental forces of nature" you harness, there ain't no cheating the laws of thermodynamics, even in convenience store cooling fans...

Re:Definitely a violation

[AdamInParadise]

Of course it is a violation. You can't get something for nothing. Energy is only transfered, it cannot be 'created'. Nuclear plants takes uranium and transform it into heat. A magnet is not a fuel because it does not contain energy. Magnetic fields decay because the material decays, not because they are 'used'.

This definitely looks like a stupid scam.

Re:Porcelain engine running on water

[azav]

Here it is:

http://www.siscom.net/~louisekramer/index.htm

Real Electric Motor News

[fishybell]

If you really want to know about breakthroughs in electric motor design, not just another free-energy scam, mosey on over to http://www.rasertech.com/.

Raser Technologies recently (ie within the last year) introduced technology to convert existing electric motor designs to run not more effeciently, but more powerfully. Their patented (with a real US patent) design allows a motor to produce up to three times as much power than previously achievable. All electric motors can be "overdriven" to provide more power in short bursts. This technology (which they dub Symetron) allows the motor to run at those higher powers at a sustained rate without burnout or explosion.

Unlike Kohei Minato, Raser Technologies has been to various trade shows, hosted several demonstrations and posts results done by 3rd party test facilities. Also unlike Japan Magnetic Fan Company, Raser Technology is a publicly traded company under the stock symbol RSTG.OB.

Although not as revolutionary or jaw-droppingly-fake, this new technology does have a huge amount of practicle applications. For example, currently to run an electric car you need about a 50-HP motor. Here's an example of how big a motor that's rated for 50 horsepower continious usage can be (610 lbs). A counterexample would be this video from a trade show where Raser Tech runs a bus on 500 horsepower motor that is noticably smaller.

Yes, these motors still have the same efficiency rating as the motors without the Symetron adjustment, but they are extremely small for their power ratings. The key is truly the power density.

Not so gigantic a field...

[name_already_taken]

The transformers and other inductors inside a modern PC power supply are quite small in comparision to the monster lumps of iron and copper found in the inefficient 1970's style linear power supplies.

Additionally, the metal case of the PSU acts like a Faraday cage and keeps most of the magnetic fields inside the PSU, but it is mainly there to keep you from electrocuting yourself (PCs are one of those few items of consumer electronics that the consumer is expected to open up at some point).

You'll note that all of the coils in a transformer are wound together closely - this is due to the strength of magnetic fields decreasing rapidly (faster than the inverse square law) as you move away from the source. You can't seperate the coils by much distance and "transfer all the hundreds of watts your PC needs through the air as a magnetic field". It just doesn't work like that.

There is some electromagnetic noise from the power supply, but not very much really. Open up a piece of consumer electronics (like a Tivo or CD player for example) and you'll note that they didn't even bother to put any shielding around the PSU, because the magnetic field strength coming from it is really weak. How do they get away with it? The fields just aren't that big that they cause any problems with modern digital electronics.

Open up a dead hard drive sometime and you'll find two really really strong magnets and an electromagnetic coil in the head actuator assembly, adjacent to the sensitive magnetic media. How do they get away with it? Simple, the field is really quite small.

Unless your power supply includes the type of electromagnet used on a scrapyard crane, I wouldn't worry about it - the field is much smaller than you might think.

whatever... it's a hoax

[slazar]

This guy is putting energy into the machine every time his magnet moves. Attach it to a fixed position say with a clamp and it would not work. Take a look at this video of Minato and then read the explanation here. You will need to search in your browser for minato because the page is long. Also you have to wait for the avi to completely download.

rasertech

[TubeSteak]

i watched the video and i'll give them credit for having a good PR dept. BUT I can't seem to find a decent explanation of WTF they're doing thats so special.

From the FAQ
Q. How does the Symetron(TM) technology deliver better performance?
A. Symetron(TM) motor technology is based on our work in advanced motor theory which is the basis for several proprietary design innovations that achieve dramatic increases in torque and power.

Q. Can the Symetron(TM) Motor technology be copied or pirated easily?
A. The Symetron(TM) motor technology is clearly unique compared to other electric motors. It is based on proprietary scientific principles with Patents applied [for]. No imitation motor can be built without direct infringement on patents.

Translation:
We know something you don't know
&
Yes, but we'll sue them

What worries me are phrases like "proprietary design innovations", "proprietary scientific principles", "strict confidentiality agreement", etc. I read their Press Briefing, which left me more and less satisfied. The best i can piece together is that they've got better cooling, some special design tweaks and a "means for increased magnetic energy storage" The deeper you go the curioser it gets...

Just for shits and giggles they make almost the same claims as our Japanese friend. "300% more power" anyone? Their SEC filings make for veryinteresting reading. they've only spent 600K on R&D since raser's inception, they haven't obtained patents yet (only applied for them), "Raser's auditor's report contains a "going concern" qualification", "Our officers have no long-term experience with electrical motor sales"... I just can't understand... If their tech is so mindblowing how come it isn't everywhere?