The Future of Tax Software on Linux?

mengel asks: "So this last week, I repeated my annual ritual of trashing my scratch partition, making a FAT filesystem on it, booting Microsoft Windows(tm), and installing tax software to do my taxes. I had hoped, with the advent of Xandros, and of Linspire (formerly Lindows), that one of these increasingly important commercial companies would have talked someone like Intuit, or the Tax Cut guys, into developing this years tax software against Wine, so that it would also run on Linux under Wine as well as on MSWindows. So what has to happen before the companies who write Tax Cut and TurboTax will do versions that least run under Wine, much less native Linux versions? What can we do to help make that happen?"

"Tax Preparation is the only reason I boot MSWindows anymore, and each year it gets more arduous, as soon I'm going to be forced to upgrade the MSWindows partition to XP, just as a few years ago I had to upgrade from MSWindows 3.1 to MSWindows 98 -- so in effect my tax software costs me double, because I keep getting forced to buy a newer MSWindows upgrade every 3 years or so as well as the tax software."

Comments

TurboTax Online

[Reducer2001]

I ran the online version of TurboTax just fine on my Gentoo box running Firebird/fox.

Re:TurboTax Online

[PerlGuru]

The online version of TurboTax doesn't support W2's from multiple states. I tried H&R block and although they can do it, they want $100 to file my federal and $60 for my state.

That's funny sure seemed to handle my multiple W-2's just fine this year, same as last year.

TurboTux Online

[AtariAmarok]

"I'm the tuxman. Yeaheh, I'm the tuxman...."

No need....

[woobieman29]

You can do this on the web, using either the Tax Cut software on the web provided by H&R Block, or go to Yahoo and use their TurboTax service. There are probably others too.

Re:No need....

[Jahf]

Agreed. For the last 3 years I've used HRblock.com's online preparation services and e-filed through them.

It doesn't save any money over using the software locally that I've found so far but it has 3 distinct advantages:

1) Runs Mozilla (though you need to turn on pop-ups for that site since the entire application is in a pop-up)

2) Access from anywhere ... twice I've needed to refer to my past year's taxes while out of the house and HRBlock keeps up to 3 years online at a time in PDF format

3) I don't have to worry about trashing my drive without a backup of the data

And yes, it does contain some sensitive info but I don't have anything in my taxes that I really care if anyone sees beyond my SS# and HRblock.com seems to be no worse at security than anyone else. The only people I wish didn't have access to my tax info is the IRS and I don't get a choice there :)

If you want they will provide all the same analyses of your taxes as going into their office and they have online support (all for a fee of course), but I've found the information in the program enough to get my taxes done and itemize my mortgage, home office, etc.

Re:No need....

[DeadSea]

For two years I have used TaxAct online. This year it cost my $17.00 to file both my federal and state taxes.

Advantages:

• Works on linux (I used firefox web browser)
• Cheap (as I said $17.00) - less than I have found in downloadable software or other online services.
• Fast - the website is very responsive and unlike turbo tax online, I have never been frustrated by the server speed.
• Stores last years return for you and auto fills in that data.
• Has tax advice, good instructions, a nice wizard interface, and checks on your return.
• Gives your PDFs to print and save when you are done.

Disadvantages:

• It is online - you are giving your financial data to a third party.
• The first year you must enter tax data from the previous year. There is no way to import turbo tax files or the like.
• You must manually enter all your w2 data. Unlike other software, it does not allow you to download it.

What can we do to help make that happen?

[whathappenedtomonday]

um, pay more taxes?

TaxCut for the Web

[yelvington]

Tax Cut for the Web lists Netscape 6+7 as supported browsers, so it should work fine with Mozilla/Firebird.

Re:TaxCut for the Web

[Electrum]

Looking at the cost of "Tax Cut for the Web" prices on their site it's cheaper to have my taxes done by a local tax firm.

Then it's also cheaper than the stand-alone software. Problem solved.

I tried this

[AtariAmarok]

I tried this a few times and went back to Windows tax calculation. No matter how I calculated it with the Linux version, I always ended up paying $699 more than with comparable Windows tax software scenarios.

the software is a crutch, and it breaks

[klossner]

It beats me why an individual taxpayer who knows anything about programming would use tax prep software. I did my taxes by hand, along with separate state and federal returns for each of my three kids, in less than the time it took you to set up a Windows environment and get the software running.

Anybody who can follow instructions like "subtract the lesser of lines 14 and 16 from line 18 and enter the result on line 21" would be better off following the hacker creed and doing it themself.

Re:the software is a crutch, and it breaks

[vasqzr]

[i] It beats me why an individual taxpayer who knows anything about programming would use tax prep software.[/i]

Actually, even though I'm very good with programming, high level math, etc, I screw up small calculations like that all the time. Expense and mileage reports, everything. I'd probably goof up.

The main reason I did my taxes on line, back in late Janurary or Feburary, was so I'd get my refund faster.

Doing them online, with eFile, and Direct Deposit...I got my refund in about 12 days.

As opposed to: Fill out forms, stamps, envelope, do the math, mail it all in, wait for check, take check to bank...

It does cost $9.95 or something, but it's worth it to get the money quicker. Its nowhere near as bad as the gouging on those 'instant refund' places

Re:the software is a crutch, and it breaks

[angle_slam]

It beats me why an individual taxpayer who knows anything about programming would use tax prep software

Ease of use maybe? Actually following instructions is easy. But it's time consuming. TurboTax does it for you already. For a really simple return, you can be done in 2 minutes. For more complicated returns, it does the thinking and calculations for you: should you itemize? Enter in your deductions and it will determine that for you. Are your medical expenses more than 7.5% of your AGI? TurboTax will automatically determine that and enter the information for you. Do you have to pay AMT? Turbo Tax automatically calculates the AMT once all your data is in.

It's just much faster than doing it by hand. You don't have to worry about making an addition mistake. You won't make a mistake in looking up the tax owed. You can file electronically and get your refund much faster. It will automatically transfer your information to a state tax return. It is more readable than hand-written returns. You can forecast next year's taxes and print out an appropriate W4 (I did this last year. If not for unexpected income, both Federal and state would have been within $50 of what was withheld). If you have your own business, it will do your estimated taxes. It will tell you of your options with basically anything you can think of. I'll never do taxes by hand again.

Of course, if you have to buy and install Windows to do this, you don't save much time. But for a person who has a Windows machine, TurboTax (and the like) have great advantages.

Straightforward enough

[Otter]

As Ask Slashdots go, this is almost as easy as "My school's network is insecure. What should I do about it? Should I sniff passwords and publically post them?" earlier this week:

Use Linux. Insist on Linux software and *buy* it when it's available.

There's no conspiracy here-- those companies do MacOS ports because Mac users make it worth their while. As long as the US desktop Linux base remains tiny and as long as most of those users can dual-boot and are willing to buy the software, what's the value for them? Especially since you know the remaining Linux core is a) going to complain that it doesn't run on Gentoo or LFS, b) berate them for not making the whole thing open-source and c) too cheap to pay for it anyway.

There is one huge upside, in that there will *never* be a good free alternative, so if a userbase exists, products will emerge.

Financial Incentive

[greenhide]

So what has to happen before the companies who write Tax Cut and TurboTax will do versions that least run under Wine, much less native Linux versions? What can we do to help make that happen?

The companies need to believe that they will make money if they release versions for Linux. Currently, there just aren't enough users who only use Linux to encourage tax program companies to devote resources to making compatible versions available.

Also, consider the Linux culture, which generally eschews proprietary software. It's pretty much impossible for a tax preparation sw company to release its source code, so you'd have to use binaries. That could lead to compatibility problems between different variants of Linux. The thing is, if you write an application for Windows, you mostly only have to worry about writing it for two flavors of Windows: 95/2000 and XP. It's a known quantity. At this point, most companies just have to change the rules from the previous years, and can keep most of the GUI and interfaces intact.

Right now, there are some 25 million Mac users (supposedly) in the US, and there's one (TurboTax) preparation software application available to them. I'm guessing there's far fewer than 100,000 users in the US who use Linux and a Linux-based desktop exclusively in their home, and a great many of these people use the Linux desktop because they don't want to spend any money on an OS. <joke>A good portion still live in their parent's basement, and don't have much of an income to speak of.</joke> All considered, 100,000 is a very low number.

Re:Financial Incentive

[b-baggins]

I'm a big fan of Taxcut. They'll refund your efilling fees, give you a rebate on the software and refund the cost of the state package. And it's about $20 cheaper than turbotax right off the shelf.

Two questions:

[vasqzr]

#1

I did the TurboTax software on the web. Doesn't it work under a Linux browser?

#2

Wouldn't it be easier just to have a tax preparer do them for $40, or is your time worth that little?

I am in almost the same boat.

[Captain Rotundo]

Each year I use Windows for one thing, taxes. and each year I print out way more just in case I need to check a document, I wont have to go through the windows trouble. I've been lucky enough that I have had access to windows systems so far. But this year was probably the last that will be the case. Every year I also tell Intuit (via there registration and/or other feedback) that I would prefer a Linux solution.

I am as much a free software zealot as the next guy, as a matter of fact this is one of the few areas I would probably disagree with RMS on, I will be the first in line to purchase a tax solution for linux. - It is probably one of the last areas where there is literally NOTHING to compete with the windows platform, not even a substandard work in progress.

I understand the web based solutions, but would really prefer a standalone app if only for illogical person preference reasons.

Actual tax software on your PC?

[Inoshiro]

I just went to the CCRA website and went through an online efiling. I found out about this cool site. Since I made less than $25,000 CDN last year (being a student and all), it was even free.

Works quite well in Mozilla.

I Have a Dream

[npsimons]

. . . but first, some backstory:

Normally, every year at tax time, I would browse on over to TurboTax.com to use TurboTax for the web, which seemed to work just fine under Linux. Unfortunatley, this year they finally decided to start denying access to users without an "accepted browser". Up until this point, I had been very happy with TurboTax for the web. I briefly considered writing a tax return preparation package for Linux, but then decided I should probably just do my taxes ASAP because it was Apr. 14.

So, I went to Google to search for "Linux tax return software", and not finding anything of worth that was free, decided to try TaxCut.com (a part of H & R Block). They had a web based version, and it seems to be working fine with Linux and Mozilla. However, I wonder how long it will be until it doesn't, and I'm reminded of my dream: to never have to use another piece of non-free (as in speech) software again, including being able to file my taxes online under Linux.

I would still seriously like to start work on tax preparation software, but I wouldn't know where to begin, and even if I did, I don't have the time. I figure, maybe I could take courses to become a certified public accountant, try to get on the inside track for accounting and tax codes, but again time is an issue.

Anyway, that's just my story; if anyone else has the gumption to actually start a tax preparation program for Linux, let me know. I may not have the time to work on it, but I'd definitely be interested in testing and donating what little time I do have to it.

Big refund = interest-free loan to government

[flockofseagulls]

If you're getting a big enough refund to be anxious about it, your are already doing your taxes wrong by having too much withheld. You should adjust your withholding (allowances) so you get the money in your paycheck rather than in the form of a tax refund.

You're better off owing $100 or less on April 15th than overwithholding all year and then figuring out how to get that refund a few days faster.

As for the simple math required on the tax forms, what a lame excuse! Get an $18 printing calculator. Go over the numbers twice. The IRS will check your calculations and correct them anyway, and in that case you have a fifty-fifty chance of getting a reduction or increase in taxes. For small discrepancies resulting from arithmetic errors you won't get into any trouble, they'll just send a refund or a bill -- don't you think they get LOTS of those already?

If you're going to defend the big refund by saying that it's a great way to save, it's not. Set up an auto-withdraw savings plan with your bank, credit union, or U.S. Treasury in the form of savings bonds. Overwithholding is just an interest-free loan to the government, and then when the "windfall" check comes you're probably going to blow it rather than save it anyway.