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Video Projector for Home Theater?
ZeLonewolf writes "I'm thinking about setting up a movie-style home theater system. I've already got the room set up and I've obtained a nice sound system. The last step is to acquire a video projector. I'm considering a few options: Projectors on eBay run from $300 to the tens of thousands. On the other hand, being an electrical engineer, there are plans online to build your own (Google cache), that are potentially as cheap as $200. What are Slashdotters' experiences? Will a $300 projector do the job? How about a home brew?"
I did this same research and with projectors, you do get what you paid for. Rear projection will be brighter and more suiteable for home situations due to lighting. Just my 2c...
A projector for home theater is a no brainer IMHO. A relative of mine has an Infocus X1 projector with 100" screen.. Blows away any TV several times the price..
DIY though?? I don't see that happening for some reason?
I have several customers who desire big display screens (like how they always do in movies and TV) so they can monitor the status of certain things.
Currently, we use a lot of old NEC 29" monitors which haven't been made in 10 years and are going away for good. I've talked about replacing them with rear-projection systems, by putting a cloth or plastic across the opening for the CRT and parking a projector behind it to display.
There's just one problem...virtually every projector under the sun measures bulb life in "hundreds of hours". At $300/ea this is not going to work as a monitoring display. Plus, we can't really turn them off because if someone needs to look at it, you apparently can't just turn them back on until the cooldown cycle has finished.
What's the solution here? Is there any way possible to use standard (read low cost) lighting in a projection system? I think these bulbs must be so costly and delicate because they have to fit in a tiny projection unit. If size/portability isn't an issue...what other options are there?
Could I get a couple of 150watt incandenscent bulbs, throw them through a polarizing filter and shine them through, say a gutted laptop display? I seem to remember that back in the beginning of time (the early 90s) the only way to do LCD projection was to lay some kind of LCD panel over an existing off-the-shelf overhead projector. Do they still make these things? Can they be modified to work with other light sources (given that overhead projector bulbs are no bargain either)
This also has to do with the home theater question, because if you watch a lot of movies or TV shows, you're going to find youself using a bulb or two each year and that's not cheap.
- JoeShmoe
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-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
Like a Epson Powerlite S1 or an Infocus X1. The picture will be infinitely better than what you'd get from a homebrew. Don't even consider the homebrew thing. Really. I've seen a few (based on CRT's or overhead projectors and LCD panels) and they are really poor.
Despite what videophile reviewers or salespeople will say, these entry-level projectors create a very impressive picture under any reasonable lighting conditions. And if you can't make your room reasonably dark (ie. reading should be uncomfortable) then you shouldn't be getting a projector.
I have an Epson Powerlite S1 ($900 US) in my basement theatre. Nobody that has seen it has been anything other than extremely impressed with the picture - even my brother who has a $12000 projector. Admittedly the picture isn't perfect in a videophile sense (and there's no optical zoom, so you'll want to measure things out) - but it is really very good (and as big as my wall would allow - about 11' diagonal). I'm projecting onto matte white paint. Again, it works just fine. I use my computer in there, play GameCube, watch movies - it's just really great.
Unless you're looking to spend a fair bit more than $900, you won't get something nearly as good as one of these two. You could try used, but I doubt you'll find as good a deal.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
Indeed, AVSForum will answer all your questions.
Last fall I bought an Infocus X1 and love it. I built a 16x9 "screen" using blackout cloth (again, AVS Forum for plans) and rarely go to the movies any more. I have a ~100" diagonal screen and things look phenomenal.
Some people will warn of rainbows with a lower end DLP projector; no one who has seen mine has had a problem, but it'd be worth checking out first. There are also sub-$1000 LCD projectors to be had.
Anways, for the 3rd time go to avsforum (:
I'm doing this at my house, and my living room isn't that big. I bought a Benq pb6100 new for this. It's only 800x600 but it's 1500 lumen and DLP. It looks nice in my opinion, and they only run $1000-1200 new. It also has an economy mode that lets you squeeze 3000 hours out of the lamp. I use a light grey 73" pulldown window shade from lowes for a screen though, and i've never had a problem with room lights, and the grey offers great contrast. Just my two cents
I got one better...
I watched two towers at my universities planetarium. It already had a great projector, we simply hooked up a DVD player to the unit.
Yeah, I think they spent well over 2 mil on the setup, but what's the point in having something if you can't abuse it?
Labtech's are handy creatures to keep around.
"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
What a lot of people don't realize is that it is also better than a lot of the more expensive projectors out there also. It has great contrast and the colors look superb. What this long throw projector lacks in some people's eyes is its resolution: 800x600 . But guess what, unless you're watching HD signals (720p/1080i/p) , you won't notice a thing. Sure you might not get a great picture when you hook your PC up to it, but the reader asked for a home theater projector and the last I checked there were just a few HD DVD players, and even fewer movies that supported HD quality resolutions.
Also, it will take the higher resolution signals (which only work through its vga port - grab the component break out cable from the Infocus website) and scale them the approriate resolution. The projector has a built in Faroudja deinterlacer (see http://www.dcdi-video.com/technology/articles/sage -dcdi-overview.html for more explanation) also, which happens to be one of the best DCDi chips out there.
The best place to get started with an X1 is to check out the very, very informative X1 FAQ by technet at http://members.shaw.ca/technut/x1faq/
Based on research, I was able to build my own home theater using the X1 for cheaper than the big screen rear projector TV I bought and returned because of a crummy picture and scratch on the screen. For around 2k I built the home theater which included: the X1, the sound system (onkyo) , the dvd player, the paint for the walls, and the material to build the screen. Send me a private message for pics.
-LDon't Panic.
So, what about playing console games? That is the main reason I want one of these... can anyone offer some experiences getting Halo to work well?
I found a $300 1024x768 panel on ebay and coupled it with a bright overhead projector I got for $100 on ebay. Sure it's no DLP, but I can watch movies on a 120" diagonal now. It's fun to measure your screen in feet rather than inches. Also, I can now call my 40" widescreen my "small tv."
I believe the rainbows are present on all DLP projectors, but for some reason they don't seem to be noticeable to most people.
I'd go for a cheaper LCD projector with a blurrier picture, but without the nuisance of having to se RGB flashes every time I move my eyes.
A homebrew design should be able to get much higher resolution (given a higher resolution panel) than any pre-built projector that I've been able to find. However, you have to do it: A. without fresnels (i.e. with high quality glass optics), B. with a high quality bulb, and C. with an appropriate way of diffusing the light from the bulb to avoid hot spots. An ideal design would also do it D. without any mirrors.
Start with two lenses in a cardboard tube. One lens should be fixed. The other should rotate in two directions. This gives you the ability to adjust the relative height and width. You'll also need to write software to simulate keystoning adjustment.
Now mount this assembly at one end of a long box. Take a concave mirror and place it at the other end of the box at roughly 45 degrees. Now make a hole in the top of that box just above the concave mirror. Place another long box vertically above it. Mount your LCD panel in that. Illuminate the inside of the box temporarily and look through the lens. If you cannot see the entire LCD panel, adjust the distance between the panel and the mirror until you can.
Now, mount two or three thicknesses of diffusion paper above the LCD panel. Place a high intensity bulb above that. Finally, leave the top open. Add pieces of cardboard, painted black, to form a series of light baffles that prefent light from escaping, but allow hot air from the bulb to spiral upwards to the top. Add some air vents near the bottom.
Such a design will be quite large, but should be self-cooling by convection. If your bulbs start burn out too quickly, add a fan.
Admittedly, the custom optics could be a little hard to get right.... :-)
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Myself, I picked up Fujix P401 Mini Projector a long while back. I had to get it fixed, but it works great now. No bigger than a couple of stacked VHS tapes. Unfortunately, the bulbs are very hard to obtain (6 volt), and the resolution is very poor (320 x 200 or something). But it looks OK if you keep the screen size down (below 50" diagonal), and games play OK on it. I found that a shower curtain works OK for a screen, if you can get all of the wrinkles out. But what works fabulous for a screen, comes in a variety of sizes, rolls up, and is very cheap - is a blackout blind! I bought mine from Home Depot, I think I spent $15.00 or so on it. I think it was 60 inches wide or so. Mounted it to the ceiling, and it can pull down, lock, then pull and retract away. Very smooth surface, white and reflective. Not as good as a Da Lite, but much cheaper!
For a screen, look into getting a Da Lite. One thing to do is go to garage sales (tag sales), and see if you can find a foldable slide projector screen. If you can get a good silver one, with little or no damage (an old Da Lite, for instance) - don't pay more than $20.00 (I have seen them for much, much less) - and you will have a great screen.
As far as homebrew projectors are concerned: ask yourself what is more important, a good viewing experience, or the quest to build your own projector? I have no doubt that a homebrew projector could be built, that works great and is cheap. Maybe not as good output as a real projector (though a gutted 15-17" LCD monitor laid on an overhead projector would look nice), but acceptable. If you are looking to give a good movie-like experience, crisp and bright - stick to a bought projector. Your eyes and your guests will thank you.
Oh - one more thing. Those 100 inch TV plans you see - while not a scam (it is possible to get an OK picture), I wouldn't bother with them other than to play or as a "party trick" (ie, an "Acid Warp" display - for those old schoolers who know what I mean)...
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I thought you could only get the "screen door" effect with an LCD - where you could see lines in-between the pixels (thus the term "screen door"). I think the effect you mention is just the case of having only so many pixels, but is not "screen door".
Actually, it will affect both. Since both systems are pixel based, you can see the little squares that make up the image. DLP is less affected by it, as seen at this link.
Bryan R.
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, or $12.50 as seen on eBay.....
Note that the X2 is not IMO suitable for a HT environemnt since it doesn't have the faroudja deinterlacer chip. Bascially Infocus found out that the cheap X1 was eating their profits, which they were hoping to gain from the more expensive HT 4800 HT projector. So, the X2 is not a good HT projector, it is strictly for computer/powerpoint presentations and the 4805 is marketed as the new home-theather option.
You want good picture, theater-like quality, at a budget. Yes? Does your home theater feature a light controlled environment? Then you should buy a cheap antique 3-tube CRT projector on the used market. These babies can be had for the price you mention. (Ten years ago when they were new, they cost $50K easy.)
... 140 lbs and above is not unheard of, and setting them up correctly is a bit of a science project. They're certainly not the kind of theater-in-a-briefcase things you just casually take with you to parties.
:}
CRTs provide beautiful picture, some even do true HD resolutions. All razor sharp image without pixels.
Thing is, the picture is not as bright as that provided by modern DLP or LCD projectors, which is why you need the light controlled environment.
Also, CRT projectors weigh a ton
But the reward is amazing picture quality for your home theater with an amazing viewing experience for not a whole lot of money. Also, there's a healthy online community of CRT enthusiasts as nerdy and helpful as HAMs and vinyl freaks.
I have a 12 year old projector which paints a lovely 140" 720p 16x9 image on the screen which has the surface area of about nine 42" plasma TVs. I paid about $500 for it including all parts and peripherals. It weighs 135 lbs and I'm going to ceiling mount it directly above my viewing position in my home theater.
There's a posting here that describes someone's experiences. An infocus X1 is the projector.
I also purchased an X1 after reading the reviews on AVS forums. There's a reason that it's so highly thought-of on that site - it is very good value for the money with an excellent picture.
I did notice rainbows for the first couple of weeks when I used it, however I've had it for 2 months now and I very, very rarely notice them anymore. I suppose given enough exposure, I "tuned them out" subconciously like traffic noise, air conditioner hum, etc.
I'm very happy with mine! There's nothing like watching a movie on a really big screen with a good sound system cranked. I couldn't see myself going with a huge, heavy rear-projection set. Front Projectors (FP) are easily portable, easy to install, and provide a good picture for the price.
Do not skimp on the screen however - the projector is only half of the equation. You can make your own screen quite easily (also instructions on AVSF).
The other consideration with FPs is that you need a fairly dark room to get the best picture. If you have a lot of light entering the room that you can't control, there's no way of getting true blacks, and you'd probably be better-off going with a rear projector.
N.
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
I'd buy either the Benq 61006 100.ht ml
6 200.ht ml
http://www.benq.com/projectors/projector_pb
or 6200
http://www.benq.com/projectors/projector_pb
A friend just bought the 6100 for about $950 after tax and shipping. It looks great. I have seen LCD projectors before, this one is better. If I am not mistaken, the Benq prijectors have a faster color wheel, therefore less rainbow, than the X1. The picture is just amazing,
If you are going to be using it as a sometimes computer monitor or in a small room, go with the 6200 it has better resolution, brightness and throw size. It costs around $1500 with tax and shipping.
Biggest drawback is running cost - the bulb alone costs $0.5-1 per hour. Hard to say what else wears out. I found pictures from LCD based projectors to hazy to enjoy. DLP pictures are better but if you have a powerful soumd system it can upset the little mirrors on the DLP and you see 'waves' as the sub booms. All this is not ideal yet. I'd like to see laser scanning projectors before I make my move.