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FTC Officials Wary of Spyware Measures
Nofsck Ingcloo writes "News.com is reporting thusly:
'Two Federal Trade Commission officials ignited a political firestorm on Thursday by criticizing proposed laws targeting spyware and suggesting that the measures might harm legitimate software products, too.' During an appearance before a House of Representatives panel, FTC Commissioner Mozelle Thompson said the measures were the wrong approach to spyware and adware. Basically he is advocating a 'don't throw the baby out with the bath water' approach."
he gets from these so-called "software companies" in contributions?
Heave the "baby" out with the bathwater. Spyware is called spyware because of what it is. There's no mistaking a legitimate program that user chooses to install. In my opinion, if the user knows its being installed than its not spyware. If the user doesn't fully know whats being installed than it is spyware, and that type of software should be chucked out with the bathwater.
http://github.com/gbook/nidb
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The FTC representatives countered by saying that while they were "outraged" by spyware, a careful approach was necessary. In addition, during an FTC workshop last week, a prosecutor noted that the Justice Department already had sufficient legal authority under existing computer crime laws to put the most noxious spyware makers in prison.
If this is true then why aren't they? There are certainly several spyware products "noxious" enough to warrant a prosecution. Sounds like a bluff to me.While I understand the FTC needs to protect legitimate business interests along with consumer's interests, this is ridiculous. Yes there may be difficulty in wording the bill so that it doesn't hinder legit software, but that's something that can be resolved. Self-regulation sure as hell isn't going to work, the adware and spyware companies have shown little to no restraint in doing whatever they damn well please.
Don't believe that last sentence? Just check out how they all claim you have to opt-in to their software, that it's never installed without your permission. Then check out the ad/spy-ware infected software installs and see if they warn you about them. I've yet to see a warning when one of the buggers shows up, and I do read the info during my software installs.
And finally, just try to remove one without a 3rd-party utility, they're nearly impossible to remove. That alone makes them trespassers to me, since you can uninstall them but they're still partially there, cluttering up your hard drive and mucking with your OS.
Basically he is advocating a 'don't throw the baby out with the bath water' approach."
In this case the baby is green, has 10 eyes, keeps track of your every move, spits in your face with ads, and is guaranteed to wreck your house.
So you do toss the baby out with the bathwater. Otherwise you have a monster on your hands.
Some call him Gator
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
Voulentary Self-Regulation by industry=Popular Republican political strategy. Basically a neat way of pretending to do something while actually ignoring the problem.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
There's no baby in the bathwater of ActiveX installs. There never was. Who needs software installed directly from the web browser? Legitimate installer programs are easy to come by, and most people who are able to go out and search for the software in the first place are smart enough to get it downloaded and installed.
There is a problem in preventing "Third party installations" from being included in the installers, as many games and legitimate tools have come to rely on DirectX, Quicktime, and Rad Game tools. But there is no necessity to include them as part of the installer itself. Meerly make a note in the installer that you need to install these utilities too and that they are included on the cd or in a setup directory.
When life gives you crap, Make Crapade.
Sluggy Freelance.
We have regulations on what people can and cannot do with private property, why should an online computer be treated differently ? Oh yeah, they flash a so called licence agreement to the user just to be on the safe side of the law, that you dismiss by either clicking yes or no (read the very fine prints). That is unnacceptable. Any program installing on a computer should clearly show how to exit the installation process, and better, unsollicited installs should be banned altogether. I'm talking about thoses occuring when you just load a web page. You never asked to install anything, or never wanted to do so, yet something asks you install it, often in a deceptive manner.
This shouldn't be too difficult to pass such a law, and legit businesses will adapt very well. As a matter of fact, legit businesses already have adapted : a clear warning or information page with a link to the install program. Plain and simple.
*End Users* do not gain any authority by the fact that they can sit at a keyboard.
Doesn't matter if it's a 12 year old kid at your keyboard in your house, and it doesn't matter if it's a secretary in a 500 person company. Neither of these people have the authority to consent to anything, especially binding agreements (and contracts, which is how the s/w industry would like their EULAs treated).
All this crap does is legalize social engineering. Think about it.
help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am
At the least, there should be a law requiring all installed programs to show up in the "Add/Remove Programs" dialog and actually remove themselves when told to do so...
The point is this: no legitimate software should install something that you don't want, period. Ads I can agree with, people gotta eat, but Spyware is showing complete disdain for your userbase and really insults them. That would be like a car dealer giving you a free car, equipping it with GPS, slowing down the engine, making it run like crap, installing a hidden camera, and then slashing the tires. Spyware companies are not very well known for following the law, so one would hope this does not provide loopholes and ends up legitimizing Spyware, as is happening with SPAM.
I hate sigs.
About a particularly nasty form of spyware.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
"Nobody is forcing people to install this software; people agree to install it themselves."
Bull!!!
I've a twelve year old developmentally disabled child who surfs wesites such as Disney, Cartoon Network, Goosebumps, Warner Brothers etc.
A recent cleaning with Adaware and Spybot Search and destroy revealed over 150 instances of spyware on his computer including one goofy search toolbar which prompted the most recent cleaning.
Do you think he agreed to install this shit on his computer? Most of the time I can't get him to agree to take a bath. Quite frankly, I think these kid friendly sites need to clean up their act or face some consequences.
They all have these nifty little games, wallpapers, movie trailers, along with, Gator, Claria, and tons of spyware children have to install to view or play the content.
While the majority of the American public lacks the critical thinking ability to be able to consider the far reaching implications of their actions there are a few people, hopefully in positions with real capability of impact, who can see the problem for what it is. The average American doesn't realize the full power vested in a web browser that integrates tightly with the operating system. Most Americans don't realize what kind of trouble they're getting themselves into when they demand that their web browser be able to directly access their sound card, or their video card, or integrate seamlessly with apps on their system so that everything seems to be running inside the browser window as if the browser _were_ the operating system. These citizens clamor for functionality and then clamor for security. It is possible to have both but the price is in learning or in cost and both of these are unacceptable to the popular citizenry.
People in general, and Americans in particular, are obsessed with the mantra of "do something". Perhpas it has been beaten into our culture from the WW-I and WW-II era old hardtimers who felt the indignance of being marched off to war and then watch their subsequent generations enjoy profit without the pain of shell-shock or watching best friends get riddled with bullets. Whatever the reason the American society seems to be unable to enter into a state of natural flux--ebb and flow. Instead American society is stuck in a full steam ahead approach to everything. Refinement means nothing and progress means everything. The definition of progress is addition and more addition. The component of progress that involves improvement has been swamped by the "do something" drive to add more.
Adware and spyware have come about because the operating system and web browser which appeals to the popular citizenry has given them what they want. It has given them more and more and more as they asked. When the problems arose that, in a normal system, would have encouraged refinement and improvement, the users demanded more and more and more. This resulted in EULAs. EULAs made it possible for the software industry to concentrate on giving the users what they want: more. EULAs made it possible for software manufaturers to be free and clear of the necessary refinements and improvements which could have made adware and spyware obsolete before it ever started.
The approach to this problem is not to pass more laws. That approach does nothing but feed the "do something" attitude which has brought us to the quagmire of today. The approach to this problem is to refine and improve what we have. We need not to add more laws but rather to remove the artificial laws which give umbrella protection to less than optimal designs.
+++ATHZ 99:5:80
Shouldn't spyware already be covered by laws against spreading viruses? Spyware is software installed on my machine without my knowing it, and this is exactly what happens when a virus spreads. What's the difference?
When it's distributed by a business, it's called spyware, and when it's distributed by a 14-year-old, it's a virus. Is this asinine or what?
Basically he is advocating a 'don't throw the baby out with the bath water' approach.
It's hard not to become cynical about the state of US "democracy" when spyware and spam illicit a "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" response, but the DMCA slides through congress on a greased fast track.
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
I had an oppertunity to drive one of our state representatives around for a weekend. And one of the things that I came to understand is how incredably difficult it is to write legislation, that does what it is supposed to, only does what it is supposed to, is applied by procesecutor's that are too zealous and too lax and is not ripped appart by judges that are too conservative, liberal or senile.
It's kinda like writing a program that has to be bug-free on release, the spec's change constantly and the whole QA department is at a seminar the last week of production.
Slow and careful can be good, it's not like there isn't good antispyware software out there for free. Personaly I use Spybot S&D it's free as in beer, no cost, exceptS donations. You can find them at www.safer-networking.org.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
The FTC is off their rocker. What legitimate software out there is unable or unwilling to comply with this legislation? Seems to me that simply notifying the customer of the exact actions of the software and making removal of the software a normal process would be sufficient. When I load software, and it includes components that may contact a website and send information, I want to be told this and EXACTLY what will be sent and choose yes or no to this specifically. A good example is WinAmp. After installation, I was asked to register and decide if I wanted usage information to be sent periodically. Self-correction has never worked with slimy businesses. The good businesses do change so that the distinction is clearer (no good business wants to be seen as slimy). However, the slime won't stop until it is made difficult to impossible for them to proceed.
I was taking one day at a time, but then several days got together and ambushed me. (from a Rhymes with Orange comic)
Windows Messenger Service! What in the hell was Microsoft thinking when they allowed routable IP's to connect to Windows Messenger Service by default.
Seems like every time I thought I had it turned off, some damned windows update would turn it back on. Microsoft must have been paid off by spammers worried they couldn't use Email anymore, makes more sense than they're just that stupid.
Finaly bought a linksys router (which runs on Linux) to make the messenager spam go away for good.
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds