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Spammer Sues SpamCop

Posted by michael on from the truth-hurts dept.

wolfgang writes "Just wanted to send you word that notorious spammer Scott Richter, President of Email marketing firm OptinRealBig.com, has filed suit against Ironport, which runs anti-spam site Spamcop. According to Richter, Spamcop's initiatives have damaged the reputation of his company. Richter filed for $1 million in damages. A similar suit one year ago, filed by Eddy Marin and his Florida-based Emarketersamerica.org against Spamhaus, was thrown out of court last October." We've mentioned Richter before.

22 of 466 comments (clear)

  1. what a suprise by bwraith · · Score: 5, Insightful

    it seems that now doing the right thing will get you sued, oh wait there's no suprise here.

    1. Re:what a suprise by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 5, Informative

      A lot of my spam seems to originate from OptinRealBig, and all of that share of spam is to the address only disclosed in the whois database.

      Harvesting addresses for spam is a violation of the terms of service for whois.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    2. Re:what a suprise by QuantumRiff · · Score: 5, Insightful

      no, the threat of getting sued is often enough alone. Most small businesses can't afford the lawyers fees, they just fold up.. Its really a pathetic thing.. Big company (or rich person) sues a small company over something they wouldn't win. Small company knows they will win, but that it will cost $x amount of dollars for a lawyer, and the company can't afford to pay $x. So, they give in, and the evil people win, without having to go to court, because it costs a fortune to prove you are right. Why can't we go to a loser-pays system here in the US??

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
  2. /me ponders... by grub · · Score: 5, Funny


    Scott Richter's 32-employee firm [...]

    Just out of curiosity, do Uzis jam or would one be better off reloading a trusty ol' six-shooter 5 times?

    lighten up, it's a joke

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:/me ponders... by rokzy · · Score: 5, Funny

      they don't deserve guns. use some kind of chemical/biological agent so they die in agony.

      or maybe so for something "ironic" like death from a million paper cuts where each cut is triggered by a spam detector.

    2. Re:/me ponders... by WwWonka · · Score: 5, Funny

      Just out of curiosity, do Uzis jam or would one be better off reloading a trusty ol' six-shooter 5 times? lighten up, it's a joke

      Dear Mr /me ponders,

      During normal inspection of our daily internet packet scanning and logging we came acroos this threat you made on the internet site "Slashdot".

      We have reason to believe that you may indeed be a terrorist with plans to shootup any/all companies that deal with the legal practice of email marketing. Although this is a very annoying by-product it is no reason for you wanting to blowup federal buildings.

      We have started a full investigation into your planned attacks on American cities and will pursue your capture and secret detention in an un-named facility. If you further threaten to drop a nuclear bomb on the state of Texas your family will also be incarcerated.

      Please be aware this is for the protection of the world. We can not stand for your insistence on flooding the world for 40 days and 40 nights, or risk that possibility.

      Sincerely,
      US Attorney General
      John Ashcroft

    3. Re:/me ponders... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I came home from the pub the other night to find my two cats sitting staring at the carpet opposite each other. They had found a spider with a small head a green body. It was an ugly bastard.

      Apparently they'd be torturing it before I got home. I watched them torture it for another half an hour before I finally went to bed.

      I imagine that after the "fun" was done, they just ate the critter, since there was no sign of the afore mentioned spider, but two very pleased cats asleep on my bed in the morning.

      Not wanting to draw any parallels at all, but cats don't piss about with this sort of stuff, someone invaded their space, they tortured it and finally ate it. How is it that spam can invade my home each day and yet they can get away with it ?

      Perhaps we need more cats ?

      Perhaps I should get my cats email addresses, teach them to use OSX mail and see what they do.

  3. He CAN-SPAM... the law says so! by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The law flat out says that he CAN SPAM. Say what you want about the guy, he's a big follower of truth in labeling....

    Tthe key event is that when every you give your e-mail address to any site on the Internet you usually have the chance to opt in to getting commercial e-mail. Opt in with one of Richter's site, and just like the name of his company implies, you opt in REAL BIG to absolutely anybody who wants to Spam you via him. Oh, the dangers of leaving a pre-checked checkbox still checked when you submit the form.

    Once you're caught in Richter's web, the only way out is to send an unsubscribe request email exactly the way that the CAN-SPAM says you should. Sure, responding to the unsubscribe link is a great way to get more spam from unethical spammers... but it's the only way to stop getting spam from a compling-to-the-letter-of-the-law spammer. He's untouchable, he'll plead guilty as charged to being scum... but he's breaking no laws.

    SpamCop's free to spread its low opinion about OptInRealBig, but they have to be very careful they keep what they say in opinion territory. If SpamCop's willing to publish nameless acusations that OptInRealBig is sending e-mail to people who didn't really opt in, they'd better be sure those people have their facts straight. Richter's counter is that all these people really did opt in, they just don't remember when they did so. If they'd simply provide their e-mail address, Richter could likely tell them at what site and when they made their mistake of signaling that they were opting in, and if they've just send a proper e-mail to his unsubscribe address, he'll gladly unsubscribe them. But since they won't disclose their address, he can't do much for them.

    1. Re:He CAN-SPAM... the law says so! by cmowire · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You certianly have an interesting view of things.

      In fact, the biggest problem is that the entire spam industry has made next to no good-faith efforts to legitimize itself. OptInRealBig isn't helping.

      I have found, based on experiments on my wepbage (explicitly denied *all* spiders by a robots.txt file, unique email address every time it is spidered, etc) that spammers do still spider addresses, opting out does not work, even if the site claims that they comply with YOU-CAN-SPAM. They all claim that I "opted in" by submitting my name to a "FFA" site or crap like that in the bottom of the message.

      I did, at one point, get some information about how a spammer got my address. They admitted that they had purchased it from somebody else, who then claimed that I allowed them to because I forgot to click a checkbox on a third company's website several years prior, but wouldn't say who sold it.

      Which, if you think about it, is bunk. If permission is that vaccuous, then giving one site permission, you are really giving every single spammer permission, because they can sell said permission freely. And they don't even need to drop you. If company A sells permission to company B and C, if OptInRealBig has purchased permission from company B and you opt out, they can simply obtain permission from company C and continue to spam. So it's pretty clear that YOU-CAN-SPAM isn't going to work, even if they manage to prosecute a few spammers here and there.

      See, the big thing here is that SpamCop does not really need to concern itself with YOU-CAN-SPAM in the slightest. YOU-CAN-SPAM uses the term "Spam" but does not create a legal definition of it. Thus, SpamCop can create their own definition of what spam is, and list mailers that violate that. This is similar to how the BBB creates a list of companies who violate their definition of good business. So there's nothing "legally" wrong with creating a list of mailers who buy lists from others and mass-mail them. You can even call it a list of "spammers" and sell it. Which is what this case is really about. As long as SpamCop sticks to their definition of what spam is, there's no real case that can be made.

      --
      Gentoo Sucks
  4. Scott Richter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Scott Richter

    Phone number: (303) 550-9828(Daily Camera)
    Email: scottrichter422@yahoo.com

    Enjoy!

  5. Where's my Opt-Out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Unfortunately, they don't have way on their web site to get your email address off their "opt-in" email list.
    So if you want to try and "opt-out", you'll have to contact them.

    OptInRealBig contact info:
    info@optinbig.com
    phone: (303) 464-8164
    fax: (303) 464-8218
    1333 W 120th Ave
    Suite 101
    Westminster, CO 80234

    Any questions regarding their Acceptable Use Policy should be sent to legal@optinbig.com

    1. Re:Where's my Opt-Out? by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That seems to be a valid contact address, but that's not their Opt-Out address.

      The only place they have to publish their Opt-Out intructions is at the end of every e-mail they send. Can't tell the difference between Richter's e-mails and the other not-law-compliant spamemrs? That's your problem...

      Yep, opting in is so easy you can do it without realizing you did. Opting out is so hard you have to strugle to get it done and will often fall into the trap of verifying that you read spam e-mail.

      Oh, and you kill your spam before you read it? Oh well, you'll also end up killing the ever elusive opt-out info.

      Somehow, this CAN-SPAM law isn't quite what we wanted in an anti-spam law...

    2. Re:Where's my Opt-Out? by ethx1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Thanks for that info. I'll spam that email address and fax number and see how those bastards like it. I'll also get their phone number to a psychic hotline.

      I read an article somewhere about faxing carbon paper (all black) continuously by taping 2 sheets of it together in a loop so it would go on and on and waste all their ink. hehe perfect time to try it. ;)

  6. How can he hope to win this suit? by petard · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Isn't that a lot like suing the credit reporting companies because you went bankrupt and they put you on their "do not extend credit" list? You could call it "tortious interference" with your ability to get a credit card or a mortgage.

    I think that's been tried many times and hasn't worked. Why would this?

    --
    .sig: file not found
  7. This one makes me laugh and cry at the same time. by The+I+Shing · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I don't think I've ever seen a more obvious example of a SLAPP suit.

    The bright spot for me is that SpamCop must be putting some kind of dent in Richter's business if Richter feels like he's got to sue to make SpamCop go away.

    Funny how the tricky guys are the ones who talk about using the legal system to "send a message" to anyone who might defy them.

    PanIP, the RIAA, and Scott Richter all seem to be cut from the same cloth. Their message seems to be we may not be entitled to a dime but don't you dare defy us, or we'll press this lawsuit until you're bankrupt.

    Just lovely having people like this around.

    One quote from the article that made me laugh out loud was this one:
    He said that he already rejected an offer from Spitzer to settle the case for $100,000.
    Oh, yeah, I bet. If Spitzer wanted to settle for $100,000 and Richter turned him down, Spitzer would've dropped it, don't you think?

    The other quote that gave me quite a chuckle was, "Messing with us is a big mistake." Oh, yeah, nothing hurts a state attorney general's re-election bid worse than the ill will of a notorious and unrepentant spammer.
    --
    You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
  8. BULL-FUCKING-SHIT! by Moryath · · Score: 5, Informative

    Both his arguments, and yours, are completely fucking specious.

    I keep a few email addresses around on various sites. One of them is literally present on only ONE site in the world, and it's in white text on a white background, with a disclaimer "this email address is a spam honeypot, don't send email to it" in text right next to it.

    That address STILL gets Richter's spam-crap. Just like every other spammer out there, he's a liar, a thief (ripping off the people paying him to advertise), and deserves to be gotten rid of.

    1. Re:BULL-FUCKING-SHIT! by jdreed1024 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I keep a few email addresses around on various sites. One of them is literally present on only ONE site in the world, and it's in white text on a white background, with a disclaimer "this email address is a spam honeypot, don't send email to it" in text right next to it.

      That address STILL gets Richter's spam-crap. Just like every other spammer out there, he's a liar, a thief (ripping off the people paying him to advertise), and deserves to be gotten rid of.

      Good. Then write up an affidavit, and send it to the Spamcop folks to help them in their lawsuit. Seriously. Mentioning it on /. won't do anything.

      Because unless SpamCop can prove that people who never opted in actually got mail from this guy, he might just win, thanks to the wonderful CAN-SPAM act and the arguments laid out in the parent post. And then we're all screwed. And don't say it can't happen.

      --
      There is no sig, there is only Zuul.
  9. Is the glass half empty or half full? by eclectro · · Score: 5, Funny


    The Bad: A useful and honorable service is being sued and will have to waste resources defending themselves.

    The Good: You can get a clean shot in front of the court house.

    --
    Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
  10. Scott Richter is a moron and a liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Snotty Scotty was interviewed on the Daily Show. He claims to be a "high volume email deployer" and not a spammer. He also claims that "People look forward to receiving mail. They call us. Email us. 'We didn't get our offer today. What did we miss?' We're like calm down, it's coming. Ya know, people enjoy getting email about our via-gel. People enjoy getting email about our energizer." Piece of work, huh?

    The best quote of the show is this one, though:
    Daily Show: "Why do you think the government doesn't want you making $20,000 a day?"
    Richter: "Well, that's simple. That's the easiest question there is. Because the US Postal service is saying 'Hey, we need help. We're getting killed here. This guy can send email. He's not wiping out the rain forest. So what are we gonna do with all these little white trucks? We either gotta get this guy to pay 37 cents and buy some stamps... or we're done.'"

    Scott's OptInRealBig has spammed almost everyone I know. Noone opted in. Placing an email address on a website does not consitute opting in.

    If you're using the Spamhaus SBL to block incoming mail connections, you're already blocking OptInRealBig. If you're not, you can filter on the following domains:

    optinrealbig.com
    cpaempire.com
    optinbig.com
    c 4c01.com
    bluerocketonline.com
    ss01.net
    dfmmb.co m
    ew01.com
    ss01.net
    tekmailer.com
    moosq.com
    g eekpost.com

  11. Next up by Aexia · · Score: 5, Funny

    Enron sues the United States Government for damages.

    Claims they wouldn't have gone bankrupt if not for government interference in their accounting.

  12. Is Ironport a black hat? by Animats · · Score: 5, Informative
    I dropped SpamCop after they were taken over by IronPort. IronPort sells spamming engines. "Supports up to 10,000 simultaneous connections". "Can deliver up to 1 million messages per hour". "Removes constraints on outbound email marketing".

    Yeah, yeah, there are "legitimate uses" for this thing. Right. Sure.

    Even worse, they have a "Bonded Sender program, under which spammers pay a fee to Ironport to bypass spam filters. They charge a fee of $20 for each complaint, but allow one free complaint per million spams. They're vague about what a "complaint" is, and admit they don't use "AOL complaints". They may be counting only complaints that reach abuse@bondedsender.com. Since they don't require that mail be marked as "approved by BondedSender", few people know how to complain. And they don't disclose their complaints, or who's in the "Bonded Sender" program.

    They're trying hard to insure that all the major anti-spam systems are hardwired to let their spam through. They have patches for all the major spam detection programs. The patches bypass all other spam checking if the source IP address has the DNS record that says it's listed with BondedSender. Now you understand why they bought SpamCop.

    A useful check for mail programs is to check the BondedSender whitelist, then run a conservative Bayesian spam filter on the content. If BondedSender says it's not spam, but the spam filter says it is, ship it off to the BondedSender abuse address. Definitely do this for honeypots. Any BondedSender mail that shows up at a honeypot should be reported on NANAE. That will help track how much, or how little, Ironport is really enforcing their rules.

  13. Richter's Domains and the Ukranian Connection by Dynamoo · · Score: 5, Interesting
    One main hub of Richter's empire is CPAempire.com - compare this with SPAMempire.com. He has a subsiduary, Blue Rocket Media, which appears to operate waaay offshore in the Ukraine.

    Blue Rocket Online Media
    Rus Penkatar
    Alekseeva Str 29
    Kharkov, Petra 61009
    +3.80577036200

    For a "legitimate" outfit, he sure operates some dodgy sounding domains:

    • Allchickswithdicks.com
    • Bumfightsonline.com
    • Cuterteen.com
    • Dailypornbox.com
    • Darknspicy.com
    • Eatmypussyright.com
    • Ebumfights.com
    • Ejackolate.com
    • Funamateur.com
    • Funcheerleaders.com
    • Funwithpee.com
    • Hotterass.com
    • Hugermelons.com
    • Itoonsex.com
    • Lesbianssizzle.com
    • Moreropes.com
    • Oralwonders.com
    • Orgyfilms.com
    • Outsidevoyeur.com
    • Peeperdorm.com
    • Pillsofpleasure.com
    • Realbigerotica.com
    • Realbigfetish.com
    • Realbigsex.com
    • Seducewomennow.com
    • Sexierstories.com
    • Sexyanalteens.com
    • Sexylegssexyfeet.com
    • Sexyyoungstuds.com
    • Smallnsexy.com
    • Youngerasian.com
    • Youngervirgins.com
    If you're interested in seeing Richter squirm, check out this thread at Abestweb where Richter and one of his sidekicks desperately try to convince affiliate marketers that OptInMyArse.com is a legit business operation. An amusing read.
    --
    Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com