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MS Sales Growth Limited by Delays in Windows

Alien54 writes "As reported by Bloomberg, Microsoft Corp.'s sales growth will probably drop below 10 percent next fiscal year for the first time because delays in the next version of Windows have created the longest-ever lag between releases of the software. They go into some detail on how the lack of new products also hurts multiyear subscriptions, because clients that buy the contracts expecting to get product upgrades may not renew if new items won't be available for a while. Didn't someone say once that they have enough reserves to last 5 years without any sales at all?"

16 of 308 comments (clear)

  1. How much? by LaserLyte · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I wonder how much Longhorn is going to cost exactly? A combination of Microsoft's obviously declining userbase and 5+ years of development costs needing to be covered is going to mean Longhorn's pricetag will have to be pretty steep if MS is going to profit directly from it.

    Hmm... the article claims "Windows runs 93 percent of the world's personal computers". That's way more than I would have guessed. How is that measured exactly? And who by?

    1. Re:How much? by msim · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Even taking the inflation costs into account, haven't the costs of windows ballooned disproportionately since the days of windows 95?

      I mean Win98 was a bit of a hike, WinME (i never even walked past it in a shop, i'd take a detour) presumably shot way up in cost. Then they extolled the virtues of Windows 2000 (which i admit was the best they've released thus far) as the start of the merger of consumer OS and Business OS.

      And now they are wallet raping everyone with XP. LaserLyte may well be right about the costs going even further up into the stratisphere. No matter what people say though, i just find it a bit difficult to get my head around paying so much frickin money for something as intangible as software.

      I'm sure that if they lowered the cost of the software somewhat, then they'd be able to cash in on the people that originally thought their software too expensive (and thusly found a mate with a cracked cd of Latest-funky-jive (TM) operating system.

      Sure as shit on a stick they'd have my attention and i'd consider buying Microsoft Software if they made it more stable and cheaper. And that's saying something!

      --

      Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know when your gonna get food poisoning.
    2. Re:How much? by nightgeometry · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Hmmm, I bought a mac recently. When i went into the local apple dealer to try and get one they had a 4 week back log, *too many* people buying them.

      I sat in the shop for awhile, playing with the macs. While i was there about 7 people came in, same as me, always used unix or windows, and wanted a mac. 7 people, but i left after 45 mins (admitedly it was a saturday morning).

      I know more and more people buying cheap (ish) iBooks, first time mac users mostly. It seems to me that mac use is going up quite drastically.

      Could just be I'm seeing more of them as I am looking, if you get what i mean.

      *shrug* just thought I'd say.

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      The best is the enemy of the good
    3. Re:How much? by Gortbusters.org · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You know, I have to wonder where the line is drawn between new features/performance and usability. What I mean is a nice 6GHZ/2GB/1TB machine sounds like it'd be great for 'next generation' applications, but hey what kind of applications are those? More specifically how much cool new stuff can you cram in together before using the computer becomes unmanagable?

      Here's a good example. Arguably I could go out and replace my old 1GHZ laptop with a nice spanky new one. What would this get me... I might be able to play a few more games. I might be able to keep more applications open at once. I might be able to have tons of tabs in Firefox open.... but there is a limit to all of this stuff. More than 10 tabs open and the labels of the tabs become un-readable in Mozilla. More then a few word documents open and you have to search through the list in the panel. Why not just open/close documents from the filesystem?

      As it stands today, I can run outlook, have a few word documents open, an IDE, some business apps, and winamp running and my computer does fine. I'm highly productive and I have little desire to get a new computer. (Caveat: I gave up gaming on PCs a while ago, it was always a loosing battle for keeping up with the latest graphics card, and I like laptops -- now I just do Xbox).

      Let me wrap up my rant with some trolling... IE hangs today and lags the hell out of Windows. Outlook gets slow/crashes and Word crashes. Maybe 6GHZ/2GB/1TB is a precaution for all the havoc from xaml/avalon.

      --
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      Free your mind.
    4. Re:How much? by airjrdn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      First, stop shopping for your PC's at Alienware and Falcon Northwest.

      Now, price the following hardware and I guarantee you 60+FPS on almost every map in UT2004. These are the specs to my box and I can guarantee you they'll run at those framerates and won't cost anywhere NEAR $4000.

      AMS E-Cube - $249
      P4 2.8 800Mhz FSB - $179
      2x512M Corsair XMS DDR PC-3200 - $300 for both
      128M POWERCOLOR ATI RADEON 9700PRO - $188
      120G 7200RPM HD
      Plextor DVDRom Drive - $39

      That should just about do it. For a total of around $1000 I just picked out the parts for your next gaming rig. Heck, with the budget you mentioned, buy a couple more for your friends.

      Also worth noting, you don't have to have ram that expensive, or a DVD rom drive, a CDRom would do. You could actually save quite a bit going with only 512M of ram and using a cheaper brand. Other than that, I'd say your idea of a "recent machine" and mine must differ. Anything less than a 2Ghz 512M Radeon 9700 I wouldn't refer to as recent.

  2. This may be a good thing for Linux. by karmatic · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Depending on how well the Distribution creators handle this, this can be a blessing or a curse for Linux. Generally speaking, companies want equal or better features before they consider switching (equal, if price is the main concern - better, if it's not).

    The long delay between releases will give Linux a chance to improve itself, and present a better alternative to Windows, with more features, better security, and a lower price.

    However, this can also be a curse - MS is taking their sweet time, and this may be due to fixes, or it may simply be that they are developing stable, great features. If Microsoft releases a slew of new features which businesses find to be essential, Linux will once again be playing the "catch up" game.

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the course of the next few years.

    1. Re:This may be a good thing for Linux. by hawkeyeMI · · Score: 4, Interesting
      The culture at microsoft, as far as I can tell as an outsider, seems to focus on things in this order.
      1. Business savvy
      2. Proprietary lock-in
      3. DRM
      4. Features
      5. Security

      I don't think they're actually capable of producing the kind of product you'd expect at over $100 per license, whereas Apple seems to be.

      I keep watching them say it's all going to be done right, and from the very beginning I knew they'd do what they'd always do. It's like an addictive disease. They just can't resist shoving another product out the door before they ought to. Thus, they have announced that they'd cut features (you'll hear this spun different ways, but yes, they're cutting features) to get it out the door closer to the predicted release date.

      I predict (and in this I don't think I'm a great tech forecaster, it's just painfully obvious) that once again, it won't be ready even by 2006, but people will be waiting, and they'll be watching Linux encroach, and an expensive, unfinished product will roll out the door once more.

      This is the time for Linux. Everyone is getting sick of Microsoft's incompatibility with standards. As more people use non-IE browsers and non-MS server software once again, fewer and fewer sites require MSIE. The worms and viruses are an additional "blessing" (though I have to fix them all the time at work -- ugh) in that they give users another reason to get fed up with Redmond.

      You're also right in that the game has to be played right. Linux distros jumping the gun and trying to foist unpolished products on the market could come back to bite them in the ass. I guess only time will tell.

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      Error 404 - Sig Not Found
    2. Re:This may be a good thing for Linux. by the_duke_of_hazzard · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think you're right in that this is Linux's big chance, but Linux still has a long way to go before it really penetrates into the naive user market. Partly because "Linux" is not a monolithic entity organised and focussed enough on the end user to really win them over. By the time Linux is pushed as a product as useful and usable as Windows, Longhorn (albeit a stunted version) may be out, and if Microsoft have learned their lessons (I suspect they will have) it will be a much better product underneath. It doesn't even have to be that good to "win". Linux has already won the server argument; it's just a matter of time before Microsoft recedes from view in that arena. That's if the desktop market really exists in the same way by 2006. Linux's adaptability to new devices means that MS's domination of the desktop market could be irrelevant by 2010. In which case MS will be like IBM: a huge lumbering beast that can't change direction until it has to. When it does, though, it's hard to ignore.

    3. Re:This may be a good thing for Linux. by hawkeyeMI · · Score: 3, Interesting
      As someone who does tech support of pretty much all windows machines on a windows network (only as a part time job) I can tell you that people are getting fed up and looking for alternatives.

      A friend of mine is at a university where nobody can use their computers anymore due to the worms. She likes video games but she's no technophile. I offered to fix her problems but she said she didn't have time right now with finals and all, so I burned her a knoppix cd (the latest, 3.4), did an example boot for her in VMWare, and gave the disc to her.

      Her first comments a day or two later were along the lines of, "I'm glad I can use my computer. Linux is pretty neat but I miss AIM." I pointed her to GAIM. Next comment? "LINUX IS AWESOME!!"

      That's not paraphrased. People are really getting sick of it. Even the Joe Sixpacks. A free alternative is there, and while it's not perfect (went through 3 distros with my GF who was sick of her windows problems, before we found one that worked well enough) it's getting very very close. The progress I've seen lately is exponential so I think the window is big enough.

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      Error 404 - Sig Not Found
  3. This has ripple effects on other businesses. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My company does Windows consulting primarily, but we do have two Mac guys (one of whom is me) who handle the art departments at large corporations, among other Mac-based clients.

    Company management has been concerned for some time that the 'project' aspect of our business will take a nosedive during this long period between major Windows releases-- many of our clients have already upgraded to Windows 2003 server and have mostly XP and 2000 client workstations that won't need replacement for a few years. With the Longhorn delays adding up, the Windows integration side of our business is facing something akin to a nuclear winter.

    In light of this, we just had a long meeting yesterday about things we need to do to bring in new Mac clients and otherwise grow the Mac side of the business.

    Hopefully, Apple will take advantage of Longhorn's long gestation period as well.

    1. Re:This has ripple effects on other businesses. by 0x0d0a · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not a concern. Apple will never take the personal computing market -- they chose the "lucrative but closed platform" approach that Sun did, where you have to buy Apple hardware to use Apple software. The market won't move from vendors that provide competition (and better prices) to a single, closed platform en masse. It just isn't going to happen -- most Microsoft-centric complaints today are simply because Microsoft had a software monopoly. Businesses are not going to be burned again. This isn't a slam at Apple -- what they did seems to have done reasonably well for them -- but it does mean that they don't compete directly against Microsoft for the masses of businesses out there.

      Apple gaining market share is good for almost everyone (the sole exception would be Microsoft shareholders). Apple (and I'm not saying that this is by preference, but by necessity from not being a monopoly in the PC industry) has, along with the rest of the OS folks, gone with UNIX. They weaken the effectiveness of Microsoft programs to produce lock-in. They help weaken arguments for homogenous computing environments being a phenomenal idea. I use Linux, but I don't care if people want to use BeOS, Mac OS X, or FreeBSD. It makes them happy, and I'm all in favor of that. The only reason a lot of Linux folks get irritated about what the masses use is that they get indirectly impacted by Microsoft pushes to cause lock-in -- closed protocols (like Windows filesharing), closed formats (like Office's) and deliberate attempts to avoid intercompatibility. Any market share Apple gains weakens attacks Microsoft does on Linux, which is great for those of us who are fed up with dealing with Windows.

      Even better, a lot of FOSS software that I work on also works under Mac OS X, and Mac OS X FOSS work (if to the POSIX APIs) works on Linux, so there's a lot of shared effort. Plus, Mac OS X users run software on PowerPC, which is a great way to test and turn up nasty C mistakes.

  4. importance of waiting by pvt_medic · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Its at apoint that the wait will help. Because most operating systems 98, 2000, me (yuck), XP work on the same computer. What is the incentive to upgrade. I forgot the eactual statistic but isnt there a sizable percentage of the computers on the net still using 98. I know we have two computers at home using 98. And there is no reason to upgrade them. But in like 5 years or so the computers are going to be so much faster. Wasnt it that the specs for longhorn needed dual processors running at 4-6 ghz, a gig of ram and like a terabyte of hard drive space. That is something that these prexisting systems just wont know what to do with. by waiting so long there no way that 98 is going to be able to run on a system like that. Everyone will have to buy longhorn.

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    30% Troll, 50% Underrated, 10% Interesting
    Score:5, Troll
  5. Dropping Hits -- MS Records by Eberlin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So we're used to having MS release a new hit cd every two years. By hit I mean boy-band tracks hastily cobbled together and pushed out the door to an awaiting fanbase. (look, how else do you explain it?)

    Ballmer and Gates make press conferences touting their new hit singles like "A New Outlook" and "DRM - Quicker Than A Ray Of Light" -- but of course you can't just buy the singles. You have to buy the entire CD...and good luck trying to get rid of the tracks you don't want.

    Now people started complaining about how their hits aren't put together well so they decided to finally take it slow, spend time at the studio, and actually sit down to make good music. The fanbase was like "awwww, you didn't have to do that!" while the critics were "riiiight, like they'd REALLY do that."

    Then MS realized they're not going make the 2 year cycle deadline so faster than you can say "oops, I did it again" they start tossing out stuff they were promising to deliver. Their new hit "Palladium Blues" may have to wait. That new Filesystem track that you could Tae Bo to -- gone.

    So what's left? Probably a complete rehash of their latest album. Maybe they'll P-Diddy some of the stuff Apple released a few years ago. Toss in a reworked "IE Blockin' Da Poppas" along with Ballmer's dance moves and the fanbase will eat it up like a warm leftover casserole.

    As for me, I'm a critic, not a fan. I'll stick to my GPL's Greatest Hits cd. You know, the one that comes with the "I Honk For Herring" sticker and a video of Stallman singing the "Hacker Song." I must say I passed on the Torvalds In Speedos poster, though.

  6. OK gang -- what do we need to do to beat them? by lawpoop · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So now we have an opportunity. Longhorn is supposed to be packed with great new features such as WinFS, C# and .net. Are we just going to copy them, or come up with some new personal computing paradigms? If so, what would they be?

    --
    Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
    -- Pablo Picasso
  7. I wouldn't count on it by Saint+Stephen · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I worked there 3 years. Every company meeting went like this:

    Jesus god all mighty we got a lot of money from Office and Windows this year. Here's their breakdown, and here's everybody else, some made money, some didn't, but who cares because Office and Windows really came through!

    Now, even though it's just ridiculous, we still expect 15-20% growth from Office and Windows again. And I'll be damned if they don't go out and do it, year, after year, after year.

    Trust me, if MS does one thing at all, it's make its numbers.

  8. Re:Many Small Things by drunkenbatman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There are a lot of things that are a little off in this, and I think you might making big generalizations based upon your views. Have a salt shaker ready, but most of this is unintentional Longhorn FUD, some of it prolly deserved and at least you didn't mention Copland. :) MS isn't the only one who is going to experience this, others already have (ie, Copland, or even OSX).

    After watching OSs come and go over the years, I've basically come to the conclusion that a major Operating System project coming together when its supposed to is more of a happy accident than anything. This stuff comes up whenever every major OS is being developed. Writing the kinds of stuff MS is trying to do is hard, hard stuff. Just ask Apple... things might look all well and rosy over in their camp, but its not if you look closer. Same with Linux. And its only going to get harder as the demands increase, which is something any game developer understands.

    Bill Gates coined it best when he said "Momentum begets momentum". The problem is that once you reach a certain point (call it what you will, market saturation, etc) you have to push harder and harder to keep that momentum. IE, once you've reach escape velocity, you're cruising from the outer atmosphere to the moon. But to get to mars in a reasonable time frame is a bitch and a half. To get out of the solar system is an exponentially bigger bitch, etc, etc.

    That's ~95% of the problem MS is facing, which is the old adage of being a vicitim of your own success. Same thing is starting to happen with chip makers, as others have recently commented on... sure, speed can keep improving exponentially, but the cost to do so can become prohibitively expensive.

    But of course MS is going to get there, even if each super-dooper feature they've promised won't be in it. Apple's feature list kinda had to be paired down drastically, and even then it still shipped years late and couldn't play DVDs, just to keep some perspective. :) I just don't really think there's some perfect storm going on here, and I don't think a lot of others do either.

    I mentioned the momentum thing, which MS understands full well. When you're pushing that rock up the hill, the last 10% is often the highest. MS, like others, is simply going to try to raise the barrier to entry to a level where OSS competitors are having to play catch up to the next plateau. They're even doing it with Google: you better believe they're in the fight for their lives soon. Think Soviet Union vs USA: arms race, and whoever can outspend the other before one falls wins. Thats one aspect... the other is where a drug patent x expires, and the company combines x with y, and even though x+y may be nothing special they spend tens of millions of dollars advertising it to joe schmoe who, when they go to their doctor, only wants the purple pill.

    People are happy with x, and Linux gets x. Fine, MS spends a huge amount making x+y, then marketing it, and everyone wants x+y, which Linux doesn't have. OpenOffice seem to have too good of a .doc format? Alright, change it, with a lil DRM for spice. This could be any number of things, including online media. In short, MS is in a long hard slog until they reach the next technical plateau. Then they can cruise awhile, then its more billions.

    To specifically go through some of the problem points:

    1) Lack of new products prevents sales and damages customer loyalty.

    Debatable, but I'll give it to you. I don't think most people care about not having yearly OS updates, in fact if I had to wager i'd guess most consider it a feature. Knowing game x from 3 years ago still works is a big boon in joe sixpacks world. And mine, come to think of it. Now if 3rd party releases weren't hitting, yeah, obvious point. But since I don't know for sure, I'll give it to ya.

    2) Severe worms damage customer loyalty, increase costs in maintenance and customer service.

    In a perfect world, absolutely.