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Whale Flippers Make Better Airplane Wings
phreakmonkey writes "The bumpy, ridged surface on humpback whale flippers provide more lift, less drag, and exhibit better stall characteristics than traditional aircraft wing designs, according to Duke University, West Chester University, and the U.S. Naval Academy. This could help improve the design of airfoils used on everything from aircraft wings to underwater vehicles. The results were published in the May 2004 issue of Physics of Fluids and reported on Innovations Report."
I don't think whales fly all that well, at least not according to Douglas Adams.
:)
"I wonder if it will be my friend?" ***SPLAT***
-1, "1337" speak
i'm not really an expert on the physics of aerodynamics but wouldn't bumps be completely contradictory to things like fluid dynamics? I can understand the whale flipper shape making a difference, but the bumps just seem like unnecessary drag.
- tristan
I knew it all along. The skies used to be filled with whales before the whale hunters forced them to hide under the sea. Go get 'em, Greenpeace!
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
And also in news, the planes on a submarine also create lift! Wow! Scientists study the silliest things.
Why does a golf ball have dimples?
flying whales? I guess I must be the last one.
(Don't get it? Look at my nick, fercrisake.)
Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.
How, exactly, do you test something like that? Cessna with flippers? Drop whales from heights? Whale in a wind tunnel?
Feel the fear and do it anyway.
This sounds like the same effect that Honeybee's use, but I can't help but wonder what range of wind speeds this works for. My guess would be this is only useful for subsonic aircraft. Even if the effect were limited to say 1/2 the speed of sound there are plenty of aircraft that could benefit from this. If anyone can find a link which gives the conditions required for this effect that would be great until then I am going to assume it's not gong to work on a 747. Although some cessnas's might end up with bumpy wings.
Just out of curiousity, are the bumps and nodes alluded to in the article made of flesh? Isn't flesh compressable? Would this not have an effect upon the properties of the foil in question? I think it would be difficult to replicate these qualities. but I am not an aeronautical engineer, nor am I a rocket scientist. I'm only a humble chemist.
is it that bad seein a hot chick again? if i see a hot chick walkin down the hall i dont say "repost"
I think science could do well learning more from nature. After all, nature have perfected lots of designs over millions of years.
Take bats for instance, only after spending years inventing sonars and radars we humans discover these little creatures had used the same solutions for quite some time.
Ricard Dawkins' brilliant book The blind watchmaker did a good job convincing me that we still have lots and lots to learn from nature.
The belief in a biblical god is an ignorant one
I don't know about you but a study like this reported by a guy named Frank Fish sounds a little biased. I would even go as far as to say it sounds a little fishy...ok maybe that was a little too far.
This is not to say that this research doesn't show us anything we didn't already know, but it isn't exactly a huge revelation either.
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
What this says to me is that Ford may have had it more right than he knew, with the Trimotor. (The Trimotor's skins were corrugated with the ribs running parallel to the airflow.)
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
It continues to amaze me the amount of intellectual property that is lifted directly from the natural world. I see this pretty easily, I'm sure the corporate execs see it, I wish our government could see it.
There is so much yet that we have to learn about the world. It makes me wonder why protecting it isn't higher on the list of priorities for the human race.
1. 2.
Are the properties of the whale fins a result of the bumps and nodules? Do the nodules and bumps flex when subjected to the pressures of the fluids? If so, how would you replicate this in a man-made material? What composition would be required to have parts of the foil flex or compress/decompress to provide the results that a whale fin/fluke does?
is it that bad seein a hot chick again? if i see a hot chick walkin down the hall i dont say "repost"
What are you doing?
I'm putting in speed holes.
Maybe i should put some in the old Flanders mobile.
If Cessna really wanted to clean up their aerodynamics, they would have gone where the Stallion went. Looks like a Skylane, but goes one heck of a lot faster.
I look forward to experimenters trying to apply the knowledge learned from the whale investigators, though. If drag can be reduced by 8%, it means several percent less fuel required to cover the same distance (induced drag would not be reduced, only parasite drag).
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
You got it backwards.
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
TRIZ is a step-by-step method for generating innovative solutions. That sounds stupid, I know, but bear with me. TRIZ is based on resolving contradictions between parameters... in classical TRIZ, there are 39 such parameters, mostly engineering focused. You have a contradiction when you have 2 parameters in conflict, where improving one of them makes the other worse. Your ideal solution would have BOTH improve.
Considering air flowing over an airfoil, I can see contradictions between lift (pressure, parameter 11) with speed (parameter 9) and energy spent (parameter 19). TRIZ then suggests inventive principles that might present a solution. Some promising hits appear to be:
There are plenty of other ways to look at this, and possibly other principles might come into play. Combinations of principles might work as well... this seems to be the case with the principles found above.
For more info, check out the following site - TRIZ.
Please note that I have no connection with this site.
Getting tired of Slashdot... moving to Usenet comp.misc for a while.
Airbus was conducting trials many years ago with a covering that was striated like shark skin. They measured small drag reductions, but I haven't read anything about the concept in recent years. I suspect Airbus found that it was hard to keep the surface maintained properly.
http://www.spc.org.nc/coastfish/News/Fish_News/84/ Shark-skin-planes.htm u scano/Applications.htm
http://www.bio.davidson.edu/Courses/anphys/2000/T
Kevin Horton
But you missed the opportunity to play off the fact that the researcher's name is, no joke, Frank Fish
dmanny
Whale flippers taste much better than airplane wings, too! A very useful side benefit for emergency landings. Despite all attempts, though, they do not in fact make very good kites.
It needed efficient atmospheric reentry vehicles. I guess George and Gracie told it to come back in a few hundred years and talk to their great-great-grandchildren.
The report, that is: here.
Sam Keith was right. Air Whales all the way!
Well duh! Didn't anyone see that movie "Free Willy"? That whale jumped over those rocks and escaped to freedom.
But seriously though, it's good that researchers study animals because they have been perfecting flight and fluid motion for millions of years, where as we have been doing it for a hundred years.
Bob evans, the designer of the revolutionary and very expensive force-fin http://www.forcefin.com has been using tubercles on his scuba fins for about a decade. He currently has two models that use this technology, the "extra" force fin and the "excellerating" force fin. The article on inovations report makes it seem like no one on the planet has been doing anything with tubercles, in fact the U.S. NAVY SEALS have known about the advantages for years as well as they have been exclusively using the fins manufactured by this small company.
"Were Alph, the sacred river ran, through caverns measureless to man, --Coleridge