Slashdot Mirror
Dealing w/ Online Fraudulent Sellers?
Nicholas French asks: "I have recently made a couple of online purchases, one was an Ancient Bronze Amlash ring from
The Antiquities Company which cost me *cough* 'a lot of money' and was backed up by a 'guarantee of authenticity'. The other was a second hand Book Crowds
& Power, via the Amazon
Marketplace, which I have not even received regardless of the numerous emails sent to both the seller and Amazon. I have since taken delivery of the ring and had its metal composition tested...turns out it is actually brass, and not exactly Ancient either! When I approached the seller via email, quoting my money back 'guarantee of authenticity' I was told politely to take a hike. I am considering speaking to Trading standards but am not really sure where to start, so have added myself to the growing numbers of reported Fraud victims on Fraud.Org. Have any other Slashdot readers managed to retrieve their hard earned cash from these Fraudsters, or had any similar problems with large online's such as
Amazon?"
Did you pay with your credit card?
If so, contact your credit card company to initiate a chargeback. For items that you haven't received, you should just have to fill out a form. If the item wasn't as described, you will have to return the item to the seller via insured shipping w/ tracking and indicate the tracking info on the form.
Different credit card companies have different policies, but most of them should be willing to help you out.
Honestly, my experiences with customer service at Amazon have been extremely helpful, although follow-through has been spotty. There's no question that you should be protected by their guarantee, though. You don't explain what their response was -- are they refusing to honor it?
As far as the other company goes, it sounds like straight-up fraud -- go to the relevant law enforcement people and, in the future, avoid vendors with names like "The Honourable Company". And *always* use a credit card!
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
Never buy anything from a page that has annoying music on it. Very bad sign. Also, on the front page there's a link to an RV sales site. Another really bad sign. The clues were all there, so caveat emptor.
This is America, damnit. Speak Spanish!
If you purchased something from that website, you simply deserve to be ripped off. Note the following:
- It is extremely poorly designed for a website that sells expensive things. The spelling/grammar is screwed up in a few places.
- There is no contact information, no street address, and it's hard to even tell what country they are in.
- They accept Paypal instead of having a normal credit card processor
- They try to sell you vacations and such
- There is no policy page. Nothing is mentioned about returns. Nothing about the authenticity policy is in writing.
- There are many links to suspicious websites
Basically, a web store that looks like this is an obvious scam. And chances are, if it looks like a scam, it probably is.
While there are no details on the site, I'd imagine that it was one of the scams all too common on Ebay and the like these days - I'll send you a (fraudulent) cashiers check for $500 over the item's cost, and you send me $500 cash along with the item; when the check bounces, the seller is left liable for the money and has sent an item out for free as well. Of course, this is a despicable action on the buyer's part, but the seller has no evidence of a crime until he or she is sent a fraudlent cashier's check.
All they have to go on is the suspicion a crime will be commited in the near future. Thus, the legal and ethical thing to do would be to either refuse the transaction, or take the check and wait for it to clear (note: that usually takes several days at minimum after you get the money in your bank account). After the check failed to clear, of course, you could feel free to send whatever you liked; it would be a "gift" and the buyer simply would not have paid for the item they bid on. In addition, the police and bank would probably be quite interested in a fraudulent cashier's check and (now proven) scam artist.
The point? In fighting with monsters, take care not to become one yourself. For all you know, the deal was legitimate and you just took some poor bastard's money and sent him $5 worth of crap. If you are worried about a scam, the proper thing to do is to simply back out of the transaction and report it to the proper authorities, not to try to defraud the scammer yourself. While vigilante justice is tempting (and probably justified in this case, if my assumptions are correct), it has a way of eventually encompassing the innocent as well. After all, it would be only too easy for scammers to take others' money and send them nothing if this became commonplace - all they would have to do is argue that "I thought it was a scam, honest!"
That's it. I'm no longer part of Team Sanity.
Don't simply assume the buyer is ripping you off because the escrow agent fakes a Verisign cert - if the buyer is willing to change to a different service, do so; otherwise, simply tell them you don't trust that escrow agent and you won't go through with the transaction if they don't switch. All I see in the PDF is one passing mention of "[D]o you know if the site has a strong digital defense?" That's probably not the best way to let the buyer know you don't trust the escrow service. Instead, come forth with solid reasons (i.e. they fake their cert) instead of one nebulous question.
Reading the account posted at SA, I think the chances are probably about 75% in favor of the buyer's being a scammer. Good odds, no doubt about that. Still, do you want to take the risk of sticking someone innocent with several hundred pounds in customs and shipping fees? To me, this is a clear case of vigilante "justice" overstepping its bounds. If you are worried about a scam, tell the other party and simply refuse the transaction if they continue to act suspicious. Don't try to "scam the scammer" when you might just be scamming an innocent person instead.
That's it. I'm no longer part of Team Sanity.