Feds to Open BlackBoxVoting User Logs?

Doc Ruby writes "Investigating a crack of eVoting company VoteHere, the FBI is said to be issuing a subpoena for the traffic logs of journalist Beverly Harris' BlackBoxVoting website. The FBI is pursuing Harris on the theory that her site is the connection between incriminating memos leaked from (VoteHere competitor) Diebold and the intrusion into VoteHere's servers. Are you on the list?"

Comments

No Logs.

[man_ls]

They can't subpoena something that doesn't exist...if sites with potentially controversial content make a policy of not keeping logs more than 24 hours (or even better, simply write the logs to /dev/null) then there's nothing at all for the FBI, NSA, etc. to subpoena.

I'm surprised they don't do this already.

Re:No Logs.

[antic]

It wouldn't surprise me at all.

And along those lines, would US hosting companies shift servers and other infrastructure (potentially some staff) overseas to allow them to retain certain sites?

Re:No Logs.

[pherris]

Didn't fuckcompany move to that a couple of years ago after Ford sued them over the phrases "Looking for a new job at Ford is job #1", "Ford Exploder" and "Flips Over Road Debris"?

As for forums without registration, they allow people to post under whatever name they want. Each posting is tagged with either "registered" and "unregistered". And might I add they have some pretty talented trolls there too. Think of "-1" on /. as the shallow end of the pool and fc as the deep end.

Re:No Logs.

[ThisIsFred]

I don't know, but at my job they're already trying to push for permanent archiving of all electronic correspondence. We're supposed to accomplish this with a budget that forces me to buy refurbished servers when I need replacements. I don't even have enough disk space for the users' important files, let alone trivial interoffice correspondence.

If that's what they want it, then they can pay for all the costs involved in doing it.

Awwww fsck

[Eberlin]

Actually, if this were a slashdot article eons ago, it probably got slashdotted, and thus have lots of slashketeers on their list. Those that cared to RTFA, anyway...so that drops it down to a handful. :)

Guess here's one of those instances where it pays NOT to RTFA. Like we ever do anyway.

Release of a competitor's documents?

[Gunfighter]

So how would they prosecute this if the blame falls on VoteHere via BlackBoxVoting? Is this something that would be considered industrial espionage and prosecuted under trade secret law? What about BlackBoxVoting being labeled the "middleman" in the leak?

Re:Release of a competitor's documents?

[LostCluster]

I don't think BlackBoxVoting would have done anything criminal if their only involvement was that their forum was simply the communications conduit between people involved in the spying... but they'd better comply with the subpeona requested information to avoid getting tied up in an obstruction of justice situation.

Unmasking the AnonCows...

[LostCluster]

For a site about security and privacy, they make a point of displaying in their message boards that the submitting IP address of every post is logged. Well, guess what, the Feds have reason to want to see those logs now.

Not judge. Grand Jury.

[Ungrounded Lightning]

Apparently a judge somewhere has been shown enough information to think that a search of the site is warranted...

Not judge. Grand Jury.

"Just a bunch of citizens" meeting in secret and nosing into anything a prosecurot thinks might be a sign that a crime might have been committed.

Because their proceedings are (allegedly) secret and the details of their deliberations do NOT become either public record or evidence usable at a trial, claims of privilege and immunity to search do not pull much weight.

Fascism closer than it seems

[Anonymous Coward]

"The USA and the Republicans in paticular are a very long way from fascism"

Traditional Republicans yes, but the neo-cons in power are anything but traiditional Republicans. And thanks to them, the USA is a lot closer to fascism than we think:

Fascism: A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

OK, the control is there, the suppression of opposition through terror and censorship is growing, belligerent nationalism is very evident, racism has always been there and now is more prominent in the "war" against terror. The only thing lacking is the true centralization of authority, although the way the President was given a free hand to declare war it's not too far off. We're just one more major attack, followed by a declaration of martial law, away from fascism.

Furthermore, as Mussolini said, fascism should more properly be called corporatism. Corporatism. Ring a bell in today's USA?

Re:Fascism closer than it seems

[pvanheus]

While I am no fan of GWB, I think that, historically, fascism has meant something other than what you're now seeing in the US.

Let's start with Mussolini's comment: corporatism, in Mussolini's sense of the word, wasn't related to corporations in the current sense of the term, but rather was an enforced arrangement where the state stepped in to enforce 'national consensus', where all players - business, labour and the state - act in unison for the 'national interest'. Thus the symbolism of the fascis (bundle of sticks bound together around an axe).

While business interests in practice supported Hitler's fascist government, that kind of fascism belonged to an era of economic transition... broadly the period from the 1890s to the 1940s, when free wheeling, monopoly capitalism controlled by powerful individuals was, through the intervention of the state, being transformed into a much more managerial capitalism. Things like the US Federal Reserve were invented, the Keynesian idea of state investment into infrastructure and training for an increasingly skilled workforce, the rising role of science and technology in production (and thus all sorts of innovations, from Taylor's scientific management of the work process, to Ford's production line, to the welfare state that guaranteed a reasonably healthy, reasonably educated workforce).

The neocon authoritarianism of GWB et al. is a different animal. Yes, we're in an era of economic transition again, if not of deep crisis. But in contrast to Hitler / Mussolini / Franco / Salazar style fascism, the state has withdrawn from much of society, and 'merely' polices at the margins, at the border between the acceptable and the unacceptable. Yes, the state gets involved in the policing of everyday life (gay marriage, abortion law), but it is hardly the key player - at least as important are things like MTV, talk radio, Fox News, etc. Just because two systems are authoritarian, doesn't mean that they are the same, or operate on the same logic.

Bev Harris misses the point

[whoever57]

In her website, she sees no difference between counting votes and financial bookkeeping. She includes this quote from John Medcalf, CEO ofVOTEC Corp, "His principal thesis (paraphrasing) was that vote management is accounting just like with money" This concept misses the vital element that votes must be kept anonymous. Many of her ideas, which revolve around auditing fail because of this essential element.

She dismisses open source software as a solution to electronic voting because bugs can remain hidden even after many reviews. While this is true, it misses the point that we should assume no system will provide a complete answer and therefore use a combination of source code auditing (best if the code is open), certification and what I believe is the most important: paper ballots that can be re-counted to provide an alternative to the electronic counting.

Re:Actually...

[shaitand]

That's possible. But if that were the case I'd disagree with them.

Throughout the day I don't have time to read slashdot and browse the comments at work (yes I actually have to *work* at work, the nerve of those people). But I certainly load up the page and scan for vulnerability/worm/etc headlines because slashdot is the one place that generally covers all the majors fairly fast (using an open source type method so to speak) which will point me to the individual site covering the issue. Or make me aware of said issue so I can hunt out more information.

For blaster for instance, this was extremely useful, I knew about blaster right away, and although there wasn't a fix out yet when it first hit until about noon that day, because I'd found out that this beast existed on slashdot we didn't spend hours trying to fix these issues before realizing it was a new worm.

The same is true for the linux systems we have out there. Granted I've never had a linux update break anything yet, but the Windows world has me paranoid enough that I haven't set automatic update downloading. And although I update routinely if I hear about a certainly especially critical issue I make it a point to update the systems affected IMMEDIATELY.

Throughout the day I generally have 2 or 3 30second windows in which I can check a site for information about current issues, that means I have time to check ONE site. I imagine alot of people are in this boat.

Either slashdot covers vulnerabilities or it doesn't, either it covers worms or it doesn't. Perhaps not on the main page for every single one... but I have EVERYTHING turned on for what is supposed to come up on my slashdot page, so if a legitimate vulnerability/virus/worm/trojan/spyware/activation issue/or anything else which will likely have an impact on a large number of computers and the way they are supported, article is submitted I'd sure like to see it.

That said, I think your mistaken though. I still find it suspicious that this started occuring right about the time the volume was seriously cranked up on the Microsoft ads (not when Microsoft ads first started appearing, there used to be some, now almost all the ads are).

RE: seizures

[King_TJ]

Excellent point you just made, and if people are really paying attention, the Steve Jackson case is only one of MANY such instances in the "computer crimes" saga.

There's a pretty amazingly large list of computer bulletin board systems that listed "FBI raid/seizure" as their reason for finally going offline - yet no prosecutions were made in the vast majority of these cases. People simply dialed up one day, got a "number has been disconnected" message, and assumed the sysop didn't want to run his/her BBS anymore.

I first realized this when looking over one of the old collections of BBS numbers found on the Internet. (I think this was someplace on the www.bbsdocumentary.com web site, but as I look there right now - I only see lists of BBS names with phone numbers and sysops, but no notes as to why they went offline.)

It seems to me that right before the Internet really went mainstream, the feds were spending an awful lot of time seizing people's BBS hardware and software, with no real motivation other than attempting to break up the "BBS scene".

I just had an idea

[gwoodrow]

If it becomes a trend that users get in trouble for visiting specific websites, I could screw over everyone I hate just by lugging my laptop within range of their unprotected wireless network

I think I just had a lightbulb go off in my head. This is how I shall eventually rule the world... eliminating my enemies via paranoid government... muhahahaha!

Perhaps you slept through "TIA" i.e., Big Brother?

[TofuDog]

So the FBI is only after *selected* log info. Trusting the government to excercise restraint is exactly what the founding fathers steeled this nation against. Why on earth would intelligence agencies that have been funded by our representatives to compile massive databases NOT keep all of the information therein? You mean the agency doesn't care what *else* is in the log as long as I didn't do anything wrong? Wake up and smell the erosion of democracy!

I visited her website several times

[Anonymous Coward]

I not only visted her website on several occasions but I also purchased a copy of her book. It is titled "Black Box Voting: Ballot Tampering in the 21st Century." I look forward to reading it soon. I also once listen to her when she appeared on on a radio talk show. I even went so far as to write to my elected representatives on this subject. Does that mean that I will soon be on the FBI's long list of suspects?

I first started following what she and others had to say when the Swathmore College sudents launched their electronic civil disobedience campaign against Diebold. The students were trying to bring attention to internal Diebold memos which showed that Diebold employees knew how insecure their voting machines and the software was. The students were fighting Diebold's cease-and-desist letters that were forcing websites to take down the memos. For a few hours at a time websites would appear with the information and then the would quickly be shut down and dissappear. The websites not only had the internal Diebold memos but some even had the actual GEMS software and sample voting data files to play with.

The webpages included instructions on how to intall the software on your Windows computer and then use Microsoft Access to easily bypass the all security features. As I recall, it also explained how to modify the "AuditLog" and bypass the audit trail. Keep in mind that the internal memos showed that Diebold knew about most of those problems and did not seem to want to bother fixing the security flaws. Many polling places are now using Diebold voting machines here in the United States.

I did not downlaod the GEMS election software and the memos from the websites. The files would have been to large to be downloaded with my slow dial-up connecton. But, I am sure that many people around the world did. I have not kept up with what is going on lately but apparently the FBI claims to be investigating an alleged break-in at the VoteHere electronic voting software company. The FBI also seem to still be interested in the Diebold memos.

What Bev Harris and others want is for us to use voting machines that print out a stub which can be inserted into the ballot box as a backup in case a recount is needed. Machines of that type exist now but for some reason there has been less of a push for using them. Correct me if I am wrong but, I have heard that several of the voting machine companies have several lobbyists busy in Washington and have made a number of political contributions. Perhaps the main problem is that Bev Harris is trying to bring all that to everyone's attention. She and others are guilty of trying to protectly the integrity of the voting process here in the USA.

Never mind the VOTE FRAUD

[cardshark2001]

Beverly uncovered evidence of vote fraud. Is the FBI investigating that? No, they want to investigate Beverly for uncovering it.

I don't usually curse in my /. posts, but that is just fucking priceless.

Reminds me of the justice department investigation (and criminal proceedings against) Greenpeace.

Greenpeace found a ship that was bringing illegal timber from the Amazonian rainforests. So they sent a couple guys to put up a banner on the ship, that said something like "Stop illegal logging now".

So they got caught the Justice department is using a "sailor mongering" law over 100 years old to prosecute **the entire Greenpeace organization**, not just the two chaps who trespassed on the boat. The law was intended to stop prostitutes and bookies and other "low moral characters" from getting on boats at sea.

Never mind the illegal loggers. The justice department is not investigating them, nor suing them, nor prosecuting them. Just the whistleblowers.

Let's get behind Beverly! I for one will be donating money asap!