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Indiana First With Computerized Grading

Mz6 writes "Computerized grading has been talked about previously, however, the New York Times reports that Indiana has become the first state to grade high school English essays by computer. The computerized grading process, called 'e-rater', uses a 6-point rating scale and uses artificial intelligence to 'mimic the grading process of human readers'. The system was tested over a 2-year pilot program and produced results virtually identical to those of trained readers. The big question is, will other states begin to emulate Indiana by tossing human grading?"

12 of 524 comments (clear)

  1. I smell lawsuits, how about you? by Allen+Zadr · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ... and produced results virtually identical to those of trained readers.

    Funny, because the way I read that is, "Produced lawsuits where the cost is virtually identical to about 20 times the short-term savings."

    I see this coming from both sides. The obvious, the grading was wrong, and I lost a scholarship. To other people suing after dropping out of collage level english classes (the test said I was better than I was).

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    Kinetic stupidity has a new brand leader: Allen Zadr.
    1. Re:I smell lawsuits, how about you? by king-manic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why is that? If you had two students, one that you knew was brilliant and one that you knew wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, would you give them the same grade for the same paper? If the smarter person put 20 minutes of effort into the paper while the dumber person worked their ass off for a week on it, why shouldn't the grades be different?

      Why punish those with ability, why reward those who are not talented. Surely they won't be punished or rewarded in the same manner in real life. If the talented one was cruising and not expending any effort, thats his perogative. If he can be a productive member of society without effort thats fine, even if he has the potential to eb the next great mind, it's still his choice. The rewarding of those who work hard is important but if they work hard to only measure up to the minimium standard then they belong to that minimium standard regaurdless of how much effort they put in.

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      "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
  2. I already want a copy of this. by ShitPissFuckCuntTits · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I bet I could write the other side of the equation: a program to create nonsensical gibberish that always gets A's. What would a teacher do if you handed in something like that? Apply a double standard to the student?

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    My username: hats off to George Carlin, and fuck the FCC. Freedom!
  3. Gaming the system by ePhil_One · · Score: 5, Insightful
    While it gives identical results for now, I can easily see the coming books: How to Write an A essay! Form essays to get you into Harvard.

    The GMAT books are already giving formula essays to get you past any writers block that might happpen on the exam day...

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    You are in a maze of twisted little posts, all alike.
  4. At least the parent proves something... by Ieshan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    At least the parent post proves one simple truth: human english teachers can be replaced by simple shell scripts.

  5. This says more about "trained readers"... by Phurd+Phlegm · · Score: 4, Insightful
    than it does about the software, methinks. I imagine it gives helpful hints like the ones I always turn off in Microsoft Turd. Any construction that deviates from the norm in a boring business document apparently triggers the "grammotron" or whatever they call it. A human reader has some appreciation for style and may actually accept something a little different for the sake of variety and sparkle.

    Not that there's anything in this post that serves as an example. I guess that's because I was graded by humans. Seriously, I don't recall getting any encouragement in writing back in the '70s in high school, and not much in college. I guess it wouldn't have been any worse if the Grade-O-Vac was inspecting my papers instead of my mostly-marginally-literate teachers. There were several exceptions, but they focused much more on reading than on writing. I suspect they had a lot greater effect that way--I know they had a great effect on me.

  6. Can students get this program? by Theovon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If I were a student, I'd want to get a copy of this software and use it to pre-grade my papers so that I could find out what's wrong and fix it before I turned it in.

  7. Re:OSS? by borkus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Imagine high school students re-writing their essays ...
    Actually, anything that would encourage students to re-write their papers and improve their writing would be pretty amazing. Most students jot something down, run a spell checker and turn in their work. If they could pre-grade their work, they might be better motivated to put out more effort and improve their writing.

    Fortunately, when people graduate from high school and enter the workforce they become motivated to always make their best effort.

  8. the triumph of mediocrity by KMonk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Writing is not mathematics. Good writing should not go along some artificial standard. Just because my paper is grammatically correct, has a topic sentence, 3 supporting paragraphs, and a conclusion doesn't mean it is good. Good writing needs a flow of ideas from one paragraph to another. It needs finesse, style, grace. This is like an IQ test for english writing. It would do very well in identifying poor writers - but could never identify a great one. I'm sorry ee cummings, your use of punctuation is poor 1/6. There are examples like this in books on taking the various standardized tests - any truly excellent writer is likely going to do badly. Why? The rules of the english language are guidlines, which may be broken when appropriate. This is just the mechanization of another facet of society, and should be tossed out with the rest of the garbage.

  9. How To Write An Essay by dpbsmith · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A good essay always consists of an introductory paragraph, three body paragraphs, and a closing paragraph.

    It is essential that every paragraph begin with a topic sentence. The first paragraph should state the thesis, or point of the essay. Since computers cannot actually understand the entire essay, you can assume that it will only be judging the local coherence of writing which is free to run like a river, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay, taking us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and environs.

    The second paragraph should make a point that present a countervailing view, the antithesis. Once again, spelling should be correct, the essay should be capable of passing a Microsoft Word grammar check, but after that we pass through grass behind the bush where a gull calls, coming far, ending here. Finn again? Take, but softly memory till thousands are given the keys to a way a lone a last a loved a long the river runs.

    The third paragraph should synthesize the material covered in the first two paragraphs. It is, however, important that any material obtained from external sources be modified so that it cannot be detected as an exact match for anything on the Web. So, she went into the garden to cut a lettuce leaf to make an mince pie; and at the same time a great wolverine, coming up the street, goes into the store. "What! No laundry detergent?" So he died, and she very imprudently married the barber, and they all fell to playing the game of catch as catch can till the gunpowder ran out at the heels of their boots.

    In conclusion, the final paragraph should recapitulate and summarize what has gone before: since you can be sure that a computer is capable of counting paragraphs, a good essay always consists of five paragraphs. If it has the right number of paragraphs and every word is spelled correctly, you are almost certain to get at least a passing grade.

  10. Depends on the purpose of gtrading... by Dr.+Zowie · · Score: 4, Insightful
    If grading is intended as a motivator to encourage each student to perform his/her best, then more effort should yield a higher grade. Likewise, if grading is intended to reflect the student's ability to perform in a real-world situation, effort should probably yield a higher grade: folks who work hard tend to do better than folks who are marginally smarter but don't work hard, in real-life situations. But if grading is intended to reflect only the quality of the work that was submitted, then sure -- effort shouldn't count at all.


    This issue cuts deep into the heart of what grading is for -- it's possible for smart people to reasonably disagree, depending on what they think the intent of the grade is. Since grades are put to many uses, there are many answers to the question.


    As a college instructor, I tend to use a strict grading protocol -- and then "bump up" a few of the students. If someone comes in to my office every week and really struggles to understand the concepts, but the computer tells me that they earned a "C+" -- they're likely to find a "B-" on their transcript. But if someone who's smart enough to get an "A" blows an exam from being hung over, that person gets little or no sympathy.

    1. Re:Depends on the purpose of gtrading... by hesiod · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > If grading is intended as a motivator

      A grade is used to show how well you know a subject. If I knew a subject completely before starting the class & wrote the same level of paper as someone who studied his ass off, we deserve the same grade. He should not be given a better grade than me just because he waited for this particular class to learn a subject. Why am I judged differently because I took the initiative to learn the information earlier than I absolutely had to?

      No, schools are not there to make you feel good about yourself (that's obvious), they are there to make sure you know the minimum information to pass a class. That'a a D. Then, if you know more, you get a better grade. The amount of work you put into it is irrelevant. In fact, if you put more work into it than you should have, it means you are not doing well, and once you get into the "real world," where you have strict deadlines, you don't have the option of getting paid more just because you worked harder for the same result. The exact OPPOSITE is true, in fact.

      School should help people prepare for life. If someone is given a grade they did not deserve, they are being improperly trained how to work.

      A problem, however, is with the PARENTS. Many students are C students, that's all there is to it. But they get all high & mighty towards the school if they see their child work very hard for a low grade. They figure their child isn't good enough if they don't have all As, but that they deserve them just for hard work.

      If life had a payrate based on how hard you worked, vs. your productivity, I would start working as an astrophysicist. I wouldn't get anything done, since I know nothing about the work, but I would sure as hell work my ass off. Do you think anyone wants an employee like that?
      (I mean the lack of knowledge -- everyone wants a hard worker, if they know enough).