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Innovators vs Copiers: HP vs Dell

eaglemoon writes ""The days of engineering-led technology companies are coming to an end," Mr. Dell declared. The NY Times outlines a modern version of a classic innovation theory. Who gets to win in the marketplace - the innovators who invest in R&D like crazy or those that just take cost out of standard products? The current fight between Dell and HP over the printer business is a great natural experiment in verifying this theory." The article does a good job of stating what the real contest is - it's the different theories of corporate structure that's being tested.

17 of 392 comments (clear)

  1. When you're a commodity-oriented company... by Lord+Grey · · Score: 5, Insightful
    "The days of engineering-led technology companies are coming to an end," Mr. Dell declared.
    When your business is in mass-producing someone else's technology, quotes like this are almost mandatory. After all, the shareholders have to be given reasons for liking your company and you're not allowed to use the word "innovative" anywhere in the press release.

    Sure, there's something to be said for running a solid business around commodity products, even if they do cost a lot (compared to say, paper plates). It really is a good business to be in. The printer business, which the article focuses on, fits Dell's ideas pretty well.

    But when I look for a new computer to buy, I look to Apple and I look at Dell. There's a big difference there.

    --
    // Beyond Here Lie Dragons
    1. Re:When you're a commodity-oriented company... by MoonBuggy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I actually find that quote very short sighted. While there is plenty to be said for being a manufacturer rather than an innovator, it does not mean that the innovator's days are numbered. They both need to exist - only innovators would mean everything would be too expensive and something better would always be just around the corner.

      Only manufacturers would be just as bad. What exactly do Dell intend to do if everyone does stop innovating? Eventually everyone has a printer which is at the limit of the existing technology. Since it is not (according to that quote) profitable to research more printers Dell's printer business will dry up leaving them with just the odd repair or replacement to go on. Their PC business would go the same way if people stopped coming up with faster and better CPUs, graphics cards etc.

    2. Re:When you're a commodity-oriented company... by bandrzej · · Score: 5, Informative

      Exactly! I was in a vendor meeting with Dell, and they clearly stated they make Intel, HP, and all the other manufacturers do the R&D...then after a product has been on the market for a while, they take it, partner with that company to get its product, and Dell-ify it with their own R&D. That is *exactly* what happen with Lexmark and the "Dell" printers. All of Dell's printers are manufactured by Lexmark, just different requirements and rebranded.

      --

      LainTheWired = isgod( int Lain, int denial, float truth)

    3. Re:When you're a commodity-oriented company... by OECD · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "The days of engineering-led technology companies are coming to an end," Mr. Dell declared.

      It doesn't then follow that Dell will prosper. I bought my last computer at Walmart for $200. That should worry him.

      --
      One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
    4. Re:When you're a commodity-oriented company... by Short+Circuit · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What exactly do Dell intend to do if everyone does stop innovating?

      Building a limited lifetime into a product is hardly innovation. A plastic shell, cheap plastic parts, built-in print heads--they all lead to a consumer purchasing a new one.

      The problem you describe, however, was one of the issues faced in the 1930s. Clothes washers and dryers in particular, had been in high demand. Thus, the companies kept ramping up production. Nobody expected the market to get saturated...

      I think it's a problem all durable-goods manufacturers face. Especially those whose new product concepts' markets havn't been saturated yet.

    5. Re:When you're a commodity-oriented company... by Doomstalk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Only manufacturers would be just as bad. What exactly do Dell intend to do if everyone does stop innovating? Eventually everyone has a printer which is at the limit of the existing technology. Since it is not (according to that quote) profitable to research more printers Dell's printer business will dry up leaving them with just the odd repair or replacement to go on.

      Two words: ink cartridges.

    6. Re:When you're a commodity-oriented company... by UID1000000 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "The days of engineering-led technology companies are coming to an end," Mr. Dell declared.

      This reminds me a lot of IBM and their IBM Compatible PC days. It's exactly what Dell is doing is what allowed others like Compaq to grow into the PC market. They took what was compatible to the IBM sys arch and built around it. Eventually IBM started playing the engineering-led game where they wouldn't release specs until they had their IBM PCs on the market then the PC-Compatibles could go after it. Innovators are kind of setting themselves up for competition like this when they're keeping the innovations a secret. Back to Compaq, for a while they innovated the items that were sold with their PCs but just like Dell they pushed it back on the MFGs to do the R&D.

      Look where Compaq is now. In the belly of the beast that said Dell isn't doing anything. It's just distributing other people's products.. That's what Ms Fiorina said and that is exactly what Compaq was before HP bought them up.

      Mr Dell watch out. Your company might be next.

      --
      UID 1000000 is just around the corner.

    7. Re:When you're a commodity-oriented company... by Rich0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have used some other cheap printers, most of them end up in the trash can after 9 months, it is cheaper than trying to fix them.

      At work we recently bought some printers for $600 each, with an option to buy a $200 service contract.

      We saved money by just buying an extra printer. If anything bad happens we'll just toss one and immediately substitute the spare. It is cheaper that way.

      Same goes for super-fancy hardware. Which is better, a 99.999999% reliable server for $100,000, or 10 99% reliable servers for $5000 each? If it breaks, just throw it out (granted, servers aren't an ideal comparison since the data on them might be priceless, but it works just fine for most hardware).

      If having a plotter goes down will cost you tens of thousands of dollars, then you should have more than one of them.

      This is just like the difference between just-in-time and just-in-case. If not having an item will hinder your ability to get one item out to market, then make it just-in-time. If not having one item will shut down every assembly line in your plant and take a month to replace, then keep a few spares just-in-case.

  2. Then who will innovate? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Will the pace of improvements decrease as fewer companies are willing to invest in research and development? It seems to be the case for the last 4 years.

  3. New logos by FattMattP · · Score: 5, Funny
    HP
    Invent

    DELL
    Copy

    Blah blah lamesness filter blah blah blah.

    --
    Prevent email address forgery. Publish SPF records for y
  4. Mature products by rueger · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Who gets to win in the marketplace? The Innovators who invest in R&D like crazy or those that just take cost out of standard products.

    The innovation was in creating products that filled a formerly unidentified need. Those lovely early HP calculators are an example. The first reliable laser printers are an example. The personal computer is an example.

    When each of these was being developed, the technology industry - heck the whole personal computer industry - was in its infancy, and just about anything with a semi-conductor as "innovative".

    Those are now mature products, which is where companies like Dell appear. Their role is not to address needs that other companies haven't seen, but to build a business that exploits mature technology with identified market.

    Innovation will come from left field, and will involved products or processes that few of us will see coming.

  5. Thank God I've still got my LaserJet III by n1ywb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    All I can say is "Thank God I've still got my LaserJet III." I'm sure that it will long outlive every POS printer that's being sold today, and I'm sure I'll always be able to find toner cartridges for it.

    I hate to see HP forced into competition with a company like Dell. Dell is the Walmart of computer hardware, it's cheap, it probably works okay for a while, but but eventually it's gonna crap the bed and you'll have to buy a new one. HP stuff USED to last forever, but now they're starting to sell wally-peripherals as well. It all goes back to our disposeable culture. But some of us (like me) would much rather pay a little more for something that will last a lot longer, or even pay a little less for something that's already old but that will STILL last a lot longer (like my LJ III).

    --
    -73, de n1ywb
    www.n1ywb.com
  6. Three Phases of Competition by bwt · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Jim Morgan, who used to be the CEO of Applied Materials used to say there are three phases of competition: innovation, differentiation, and commoditization. AMAT wanted to win in the first phase and make do in the second and get out of the game in the third.

    A company needs to pick which phase it will focus on in and stick to that. If HP wants to be an innovation company, they need to know when to bail out of a market with no innovation left (like printers).

  7. Dell printers...??! by adrew · · Score: 5, Informative

    Dell doesn't design its own printers! They're simply run-of-the-mill Lexmark units with a Dell logo. But here's the shady part. The Dell printers are modified so that only the special Dell cartridges fit. The Lexmark cartridges had the same pin configuration, but the Dell cartridge holders are shaped a bit differently. If the cheaper Lexmark (or generic) cart is modified a little bit, they work just fine.

    I have a laser printer--but Canon seems to be the best deal in inkjets right now. Black carts for most of their printers are only like $7.

  8. apples and oranges... by pedantic+bore · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Note that what Dell is selling is "Dell-branded" printers. Dell doesn't manufacture printers -- Dell doesn't manufacture much of anything (at best, they assemble things). HP, on the other hand, actually makes printers. (Who knows, maybe some of the printers that Dell sells will be made by HP some day.)

    Dell has sold printers for a long time. As far as I can tell, they target buyers who like to buy everything through one web site. The peripherals they sell are nothing special, and the prices aren't that good, but it's easy and convenient to buy everything with one click.

    People who want the best are usually willing to shop around for it. Hopefully HP won't be run out of business if Dell is successful in undermining their market, and the next time I want a good, dependable printer I won't have to buy a re-branded Lexmark or some other similar junk.

    --
    Am I part of the core demographic for Swedish Fish?
  9. Re:missing something here.... by Short+Circuit · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The innovator usually never reaps the rewards because the true potential of their innovation is only realized by an outside pair of eyes.

    I disagree with the first part, but agree with the reason. Take PK-ZIP, Ethernet, RS-232, and Eclipse for example. Their creators released the specifications to the world. Suddenly, their product is compatible with a lot more machines out there, so people will buy products centered around it.

    • ZIP became the standard, and PK's closed version of the library was the fastest around for dealing with it. (A big deal when you consider the speeds of commodity hardware at the time.
    • Ethernet still is the standard. There's still lots of money to be made in hardware implementations.
    • RS-232 isn't the standard on the home PC any more, but it's still widespread in industrial equipment. Analysis tools are still big money there.
    • IBM's Eclipse is close to a de facto standard. IBM can still make money off it by developing plugins.


    In fact, that's one of those business models that was mentioned in the OSS compatibility handbook [ ;) ] Slashdot linked to last week.

    The point is, innovation can survive in a copycat-filled world. You ju
  10. Let's not get cocky, Mr. Dell by ForemastJack · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Disclaimer: I've got an MBA ('m also a programemr).

    Dell's quote is this: "The days of engineering-led technology companies are coming to an end."

    It looks like the basic opinion on this here at /. has broken down into two camps:

    1. Yep; or
    2. That's stupid and shortsighted.

    Fact is, both of those are right. It is shortsighted; but within the short-run time frame -- and the business sphere HP and Dell are operating in right now -- he's exactly right. Hell, HP knows it, too -- that's why they're in trouble and know it.

    As the article points out, there are two types of companies: innovators and copycats. In the short run, the copycats will always eat the innovator's lunch. Naturally. They've got lower start-up costs, lower R & D costs, lower overhead all around. Thus, they undercut the innovator's price and outsell them.

    This trend is accelerated when quality becomes fairly consistent accross the board. That is, when the copycats are still ramping up, their quality is poor. Thus, in the old days you would hear, "Spend the money for the HP -- brand X is cheap but sucks." You don't usually hear that, anymore, regarding printers. Sucks for HP.

    But here's the kicker: when the Next Big Thing comes around, who will it come from? Dell or HP? Yep, HP. Innovators will survive not by getting pulled in to a lowest-price mud-fight -- no, they'll survive by innovating their way out of trouble. In fifteen years, do you think HP or Dell still be here? My money's on HP. Dell's a great commodity company: pretty good boxes, cheap. So was Tandy, and where are they?

    It's the same thing with IBM. IBM has been a leader in nearly every single office productivity market they've competed in for, what, like 50 years? Typewriters, word processors, servers, PC's, etc. Big Blue has out-lived nearly every competitor who was at one time undercutting their market. Why? Because they innovated into the next Era -- and the copycats got caught in a mass extinction.

    It's evolution on a corporate scale, baby. Those that adapt to the changing market, survive. Those that don't, don't. HP and IBM change the marketplace. Dell just hangs on and hopes they don't change it too much.

    So Mr. Dell's right, for now, and doomed, eventually.