Sony's 'Cell'-based TV Ready By 2006

News for nerds writes "Sony Corp plans to offer a broadband television by 2006 that would incorporate the powerful new 'Cell' processor it is developing with IBM Corp. and Toshiba Corp. The Cell processor is expected to power the upcoming PS3 console, a workstation, server, and other home appliances to form Cell-based P2P network. The sample production of the processor has already started. In PlayStation 3, TV props you!"

Comments

2006?

[nbensa]

Yeah... But will it run Longhorn?

Re:2006?

[cmburns69]

Yes, but by the time it's (longhorn) released, it will be called Windows XP Service Pack 18, and will be classified as a stability release.

"In PlayStation 3, TV props you!"

[Anonymous Coward]

Worst... "In Soviet Russia" joke... ever.

I mock the Cell Processor

[tjstork]

The western world shudders every time Sony rumbles with the threat of another microprocessor. The Sony Processor is some magical beast that will topple Intel. Vague references to Detroit in 1974 abound, or, the USS Arizona at Pearl Harbor, for the more obtuse.

But yet I wonder if Intel will really be toppled? Will there be a magic Sony box to shake Wintel's growing foothold into Sony's traditional spaces? I don't think so.

Re:I mock the Cell Processor

[Trejkaz]

Who cares what processor they use... the problem with Sony is that they then go and write an API which is impossible to use. A good API on a crap processor would still be acceptable, but knowing Sony...

Re:I mock the Cell Processor

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why there are no games for the 75 million PS2s out there...

Right Einstein?

Re:I mock the Cell Processor

[kinzillah]

It dosen't really matter how bad the API is. Sales are driven by consumer demand. Little bobby wants a PS3 for xmas, therefore developers will develop so all the little bobbies out there can bug their parents to get them Fragment Chamber III ULTRA.

Re:I mock the Cell Processor

[Jeff DeMaagd]

Wintel doesn't seem to be encroaching into Sony's traditional spaces very well, although IBM seems to be, at least in terms of game consoles.

XBox 2 will have a PPC based CPU, albiet possibly custom designed. I think the next Nintendo will be PPC based. Sony, Toshiba and IBM seem to be cooperating on Cell. No Intel here.

Intel is making the XScale CPUs for PDAs, but I don't think they are the #1 player in that market, I'm not sure if Cell can be expected for that market either though.

I don't know what other CPU markets Intel is managing to get into, but the desktop is the only market in which Intel has much of a hold.

Re:I mock the Cell Processor

[dasmegabyte]

Well, the reason there are so many games for the PS2 is that good third party tools have been developed for it. Your favorite game's best features owe their quality to Metrowerks, not Sony.

Re:I mock the Cell Processor

[Anonymous Coward]

the problem with Sony is that they then go and write an API which is impossible to use

Bah. The PS2 doesn't have a "Graphics API" in the sense of OpenGL or DirectX (though a version of OpenGL is available for ps2linux.) It makes things more difficult, of course, but some of us like the extra challenge-- It's like the old school; here are your memory-mapped registers; poke away, buddy. Sheer fun. And it certainly hasn't hurt their market share.

Re:I mock the Cell Processor

[NanoGator]

"That's why there are no games for the 75 million PS2s out there..."

That had more to do with Sony's previous success than the friendliness of the API. Don't believe me? Then how come most of the 1st and 2nd generation games looked so horrid?

Re:I mock the Cell Processor

[dasmegabyte]

Ah, Slashdot. Where simplifying a post so as not to confuse John Q. Playstation owner is like drafting a Requesting for Insults. Yes, yes, AC Troll, I do know the goddamn difference between a tool and an API. This was the POINT too what I was saying. I have worked as a software engineer for six years. Perhaps this is why I can afford the luxury of a free slashdot account, and you cannot.

See, when an API gives you trouble, a good IDE will help you use it more efficiently. The more esoteric the API, the more help a good IDE can provide, by offering a visual reference, or by automating repetetive tasks, or by completely abstracting the API with a framework. Some APIs are nothing but a list of several hundred poorly named commands, and even a simple browser tool can help organize, describe, and group together calls. I used such a tool to build a bridge to various Windows API calls at my last job...it allowed my coworkers to do things in WSH, Visual Basic and ASP that otherwise would have either taken thousands of lines of bug ridden code or that would have eaten the processor.

Don't mock people for semantics, man. It's a ridiculously antisocial practice.

Re:I mock the Cell Processor

[dasmegabyte]

I'm very proud of your access to the PS2 dev manuals. I'm sure your whole IRC channel is impressed.

Re:Uh, mispelled..

[FrYGuY101]

You must be new here.

The proper cliche is:

1: Cell processors.
2: ???
3: Profit!

Ka Me Ha Me HA!

[DrunkenTerror]

Gohan can handle Cell again. I'm not worried about this at all.

Sony rant

[jared_hanson]

I want to like Sony, I really do. But, they consistently fuck up the things they say they are going to do. Here's my armchair analysis:

Sony could be a dominant technology and media company. They own record labels, movie studios, and make what could otherwise be decent computers and electronics equipment. They could tie all this stuff together in an incredibly elegant package. I'm thinking something along the lines of Apple times 10. But, they insist on using proprietary hardware and software.

Note to Sony bigwigs: First off, ditch the memory stick. Give me SD slots on all your devices. They are smaller (physically) and cheaper (monetarily). Second, quit insisting on using your shitty ATRAC3 audio format. Or, alternatively, you can use it but make your hardware support MP3 as well. AAC would be nice, but I'm not asking a lot. I have a ton of MP3 files and I will not reencode to ATRAC3. So, that means I will not buy your damn music devices. Time and time again your formats fail. Betamax, Memory Stick, MiniDisc, SACD, ATRAC3, and on and on and on. Give it up. I want to buy your devices but you insist on making non standard stuff.

Now, the Cell processor is interesting. I sense Sony wants to change, but they refuse to go all out. Open up this Cell processor so a bunch of home devices use it and let the network effect rake in the money. The Playstation division of Sony has a really good vision if only they could make the rest of the company follow. Cell I'm willing to accept, because it sounds interesting. Jury is still out. UMD also seems like a decent mobile solution for games/audio/video. I'm disapointed that it uses Memory Stick, however. As an mobile media player, the thing will have a chastity belt tighter than the pope's daughter, which pisses me off because I don't want to go through that much trouble to USE THE FUCKING MEDIA I OWN.

The above was pretty incoherant I'm sure. I just see so much potential locked up in Sony that never gets realized and it really irks me.

That is all.

Re:Sony rant

[Synesthesiatic]

Sony could be a dominant technology and media company. They own record labels, movie studios, and make what could otherwise be decent computers and electronics equipment. They could tie all this stuff together in an incredibly elegant package. I'm thinking something along the lines of Apple times 10. But, they insist on using proprietary hardware and software.

Not sure if you've seen this before, but check out The Civil War Inside Sony. It's a fascinating look at how the interests of Sony the electronics company are in conflict with those of Sony the media giant.

In essence, the electronics division knows they're losing ground because of their emphasis on DRM and proprietary solutions, but their hands are tied.

Re:Sony rant

[Tezkah]

They could be Apple x 10, if they didn't use proprietary hardware?

I'm thinking something along the lines of Apple times 10. But, they insist on using proprietary hardware and software.

=]

Also, most Sony CD players support MP3 as well as Atrac3. Minidiscs dont, however.

Not really adding anything, just pointing out a few things, I agree with you, honest!

Re:Sony rant

[dasmegabyte]

Alright. Cute rant, but remember this: the reason Sony gear is such high quality is because they put a lot of money into research, design, and development. To recoup said monies, they have chosen to make their modestly priced devices compatible only with their own modestly priced accessories. The reason they can price so modestly is that they know they've got that tie in. A Cybershot would probably be another $50 or more if it used SD...and you'd probably look to Fuji or Canon.

In this, Sony's a lot like Apple. They spend time designing things, rather than just doing what everybody else does, and in turn their prices are a bit higher. And in designing them, they look to make really dramatic choices. Like using a single removable media for EVERY device, from camcorders to MP3 players to (I think) the PlayStation itself. Bash Memory Stick all you like, but when it first showed up it was faster than Compactflash and more durable than Smartmedia. Nowadays, you can't buy a Sony device that doesn't have a Memory Stick port in it somewhere, which is pretty cool. In the same time, competing camera and media companies have created no less than 4 different media types, including MMC/Secure Digital and xD. Sony's dogged devotion to Memory Stick has made things easy for customers and made them a pretty penny...there's NO reason for them to switch formats. Do you think that they care about using a standard medium? If they did that, nobody would buy it from them! They have the clout to create a defacto standard, and they're gonna do it.

Personally, I agree with you on Atrac3, but since some of my favorite artists are on Sony or Arista, I'm hoping instead that Apple adds Atrac3 support to the iPod. Because Sony is NOT going to change their mind -- nor should they, because as you list their failures, I could make an equally large list of successes. Things like the Trinitron tube, the Walkman, the compact disc, and the goddamn Playstation.

Re:Sony rant

[jared_hanson]

They could be Apple x 10, if they didn't use proprietary hardware?

I knew my comment would draw this sort of reaction. It's horribly out of date. First off, I own a G5 and a PowerBook, so call me biased if you want to. But, lets take a look at what can be found on them:

FireWire 400/800 - Standard. Used in computers and new set-top boxes
USB 2.0 - Standard.
Ethernet - Standard. Gigabit too, no less.
802.11g - Standard.
SATA Hard Drives - Standard.
AGP - Standard
PCI - Standard
DVI - Standard. You might pick a bone with ADC, but that thing is cool. Power, USB and DVI in one cable saves tons of wiring mess.

So, I suspect your argument comes down to their use of the Power processor. It's a huge misconception that this is proprietary. Sure, Apple is the only PC manufacturer to use them, but PPC chips are found in all kinds of embedded devices. PPC gets used, and it gets used a lot. IBM and Freescale (ie Motorola) make them and it wouldn't surprise me if other smaller companies did too.

That said, I also prefer PPC processors to x86 ones. The design is much more sensible and also gives much better performance to power used ratio. I'm sorry, but I don't want the latest AMD or Intel monstrosity sucking juice from my outlet like it was a keg at a frat party.

In short. Apple uses very little proprietary stuff these days. Yes, there are exceptions. However, what they do usually is done in the sake of ease of use for the consumer, wheras Sony does it to treat you like a criminal who is out to steal and cheat them.

Re:Sony rant

[jared_hanson]

You make some good points. However, I still disagree in many respects. First off is this "high quality" Sony stuff you refer to. I once bought into this argument and had it backfire big time. 5-6 years ago I bought a VAIO laptop that cost me a pretty penny. 1 month out of the year long warranty it took a shit bigger than its intestines and died forever.

I've had DVD players from them quit reading discs in the middle of playback and never read them again. Its very easy to find others with similar experience. Sony hardware consistently fails quicker than that from Pioneer, Philips, Toshiba, etc.

They have the clout to create a defacto standard, and they're gonna do it.

A defacto standard is one that everyone uses. If Sony put any effort into getting others to adopt their formats, I would lay my argument to rest. As it is, only Sony uses Sony formats, so it is not a standard. Any brain dead fuck can build stuff and use it without regard for anyone else. As it stands, myself and many other people I know won't buy Sony equipment because it locks them into more expensive and restrictive choices. I want choice. If I buy a CLIE, I need a Sony camera to use my flash memory. I might buy both devices if they used more standard memory, but as it is I won't buy either because what if I want a non-Sony SD device down the line.

The sucessess you list all point to instances where Sony adopted an open format. With Trinitron, that is just a TV tube technology meant to display images. You don't need "Trinitron-compatible" cable from your company to use a TV tube. The Walkman used casettes and later CDs, open standards. I don't see many MiniDisc NetWalkmans around. Those aren't standard. Compact disc, developed with Philips I believe and opened as a standard.

The Playstation is good, granted. The game console market is remarkable different than the general consumer electronics market however. It's much more accepting of single-vendor solutions.

Re:Sony rant

[randyest]

Because Sony is NOT going to change their mind -- nor should they, because as you list their failures, I could make an equally large list of successes. Things like the Trinitron tube, the Walkman, the compact disc . . .

I'm with ya until the bold part. Sony didn't invent the CD, James Russell did, and it was popularized by Philips.

Otherwise, your good points are well made.

Re:Sony rant

[evilviper]

Time and time again your formats fail. Betamax, Memory Stick, MiniDisc, SACD, ATRAC3, and on and on and on. Give it up.

Betamax had quite a successful life in professional use, that only just recently ended.

Memory Sticks aren't exactly dominating the world, but so what? They have a chunk of the market, and are making money. SD isn't taking over the world either... I am, and I'm sure many others are, a CompactFlash hold-out. I don't know why people insist on insignificantly smaller, significantly more expensive, and less compatible SD, but I'm certainly not willing to go along with it.

MiniDiscs aren't a failure by any measure. They haven't replaced CDs, but nothing else has either. They've sold quite well, continue to do so, and replaced DAT almost completely.

SACD can hardly be called a failure. It's just barely gotten started. You could just as well have called CDs a failure a few years after they were introduced. It's not as if DVD-Audio (or any other technology) has been selected to replace CDs, rather than SACD.

ATRAC3 is FAR more successful than many other common audio codecs.

Besides this, you should consider that they can't always win them all... LaserDisc was an open format, yet it didn't replace the VCR. HDTV is an open format, yet it hasn't replaced NTSC TVs. I could go on like this...

Re:Sony rant

[SJ]

Alright. Cute rant, but remember this: the reason Apple gear is such high quality is because they put a lot of money into research, design, and development. To recoup said monies, they have chosen to make their modestly priced devices compatible with a lot of other modestly priced accessories. The reason they can price so modestly is that they know they've got a good product. An iPod would probably be another $50 or more if it used Atrac3...and you probably and you'd probably look to Sony or Creative.

In this, Apple's a lot like Sony. They spend time designing things, rather than just doing what everybody else does, and in turn their prices are a bit higher. And in designing them, they look to make really dramatic choices. Like using a standard audio format media for EVERY device, from computers to MP3 players. Bash AAC all you like, but when it first showed up it was better than MP3 and more available than WMP. Nowadays, you can't buy a Apple device that doesn't have a AAC playback in it somewhere, which is pretty cool. In the same time, competing computer and media companies have created no less than 4 different audio types, including MP3Pro and WMP. Apple's dogged devotion to AAC has made things easy for customers and made them a pretty penny...there's NO reason for them to switch formats.

Personally, I agree with you on Atrac3, but since some of my favorite artists are on Sony or Arista, I'm hoping instead that Sony adds AAC support to the audio players. Because Apple is NOT going to change their mind -- nor should they, because as you list their failures, I could make an equally large list of successes. Things like the iMac, the QuickTime, the PowerMac G5, and the goddamn iPod.

Re:Sony rant

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

"That said, I also prefer PPC processors to x86 ones. The design is much more sensible and also gives much better performance to power used ratio. I'm sorry, but I don't want the latest AMD or Intel monstrosity sucking juice from my outlet like it was a keg at a frat party."

Right. Because the new 6W AMD Geode x86 CPU (esentially an Athlon XP 1500+) isn't low power at all.

Oh, and the 21W Dothan isn't low power either. Neither is the 10W low-voltage unit.

Oh, and the 35W Opteron EE really sucks down the current.

The whole "PowerPC gives better performance to wattage" thing is bunk. It does, but only if you compare it to the 100W Prescott. MHz for MHz, PowerPC G4 is about equivilent to Athlon XP (may vary based on application, yadda yadda). So the new AMD 6W Geode (essentially an Athlon XP at 1GHz) should offer similar performance to the 1GHz PowerPC G4 in the iBook (note that practically any modern PC notebook will outperform the PowerBooks and iBooks in real world apps because the PB and iBook are FSB starved - DDR333 doesn't do you any good when your FSB is 166MHz/non-DDR).

"In short. Apple uses very little proprietary stuff these days. Yes, there are exceptions."

Point taken. Apple has moved increasingly towards standardized hardware and software.

Anyway, if you want a cool, quiet, long-running notebook, try the Compaq Armada M300. 3.1lbs (with battery), 600MHz Pentium III (with SpeedStep), 3 hour battery life, built-in Intel Pro/100 ethernet and modem, USB, a cardbus slot for wifi, nice XGA screen, decent keyboard, magnesium case.

Oh, and it's about $400 on eBay. Try getting an Apple system with an XGA screen for that price.

Where's the beef?

[Synesthesiatic]

n an interview with the Nihon Keizai Shimbun, Sony Chief Executive Nobuyuki Idei said it would use Cell to power its next-generation game console as well as a network television that will offer functions similar to a personal computer.

What personal computer functions, other than gaming, and perhaps IM, would function well in a living room environment? Remember when Gateway tried to pull something like this way back, with the 32" computer monitor with TV tuner for the living room? Remember WebTV?

Computers and TVs serve different functions, and I fail to see what possible advantages throwing a "high powered" processor in the TV could provide, unless it's essentially going to be a built-in PS3 with PVR capabilities. Classic computing functions like web surfing and word processing are ill-suited for the big screen.

All I want to do is mash buttons

[Clone54]

"Next generation game console"/"network TV"/"home file server"/"other home electronics"/another thing I'm going to spend a ton of money on that I just want for games

I feel as though the more you put onto one machine the more problems/frustrations people will have...keep the PS3 as a game console (maybe with a better multi-player network) and let us choose if we want to buy everything else this wonder cell has to offer

EE

[SnprBoB86]

Wasn't the PS2's Emotion Engine chip supposed to totally rock our world? I seem to remember the PS2 having awsome graphics only to have its ass handed to it shortly afterwards by ATI and nVidia.

As an earlier poster said, Sony sucks at designing things with developer considerations. Apparently the PS2 is a nightmare to code for.

What guarentee is there that this chip will really be revolutionary? And what has been done to ensure that it can be utilized?

The question on everyone's lips...

[DJ-Dodger]

Yeah...but will it accept Memory Stick??!!

Sony's threat

[Anonymous Coward]

All your appliance are belong to us!

Watch the Cell...

[Flaming Death]

The cell is going to make waves - in more areas than most people are willing to admit/understand. Sony now has such a large portion of media control they are now able to bring them all together for a single combined solution - and that means at the hardware level. If you have ever written hardware level software you will be jumping for joy. Imagine it, a nice singular interface (hardware) for ALL electronic consumer devices.. who cares about the high level software that will come.. its the low level software that will benefit inifitely.. These are the sorts of innovations that allow hardware to actually move into a new style of connectivity. And I admire Sony for:
A - Having the balls to go into so much debt for the R&D on this - it could cost them their company.
B - Looking past then next 2 years of development, and really looking 10+ years from now.
C - Not following the pack, with the x86 mentality that has railroaded cpu creation into a jumbled bloody mess.
D - Concentrating of consumer devices that not only function well, but look good. I doubt anyone here can defy Sony's good quality of products - I doubt you will find an American manufacturer who can compete there.

I give these guys the thumbs up, for thinking different (just read the patent on the cell and you'll know what I mean) and for not boxing themselves into a copy cat company..

Future prediction - Cell will very likely become a standard baseline for electronics manufacturing for the next 20 years.

Betamax, yeah... but!

[solios]

Betacam SP is another story entirely.

It's the television video editing standard. Everyone uses it. Why? It's quality shit. ESPN, the six o'clock news, Jeapordy... all of gets transferred on Betacam SP tapes.

Good stuff.

Sony OCCASIONALLY gets it right. :)

Network Computing = Free Online Gaming?

[ProfessionalCookie]

Try this one:

1) Sony sells Cells.
2) Sony builds the biggest distributed computing network ever.
3) Sony gives you free access to their gaming network if you make unused cycle available for their use.
4) Profit! Sony profits selling untold computing power to the highest bidder whilst making millions of gamers happy that they have no subscription fees to pay.

6) (optional) Masses flee xBox Live (which I'll admit, is pretty cool).

Question

[clu76]

Why should I care about Sony's cell processor technology? I'm not asking to troll. I really want to know what all the hullabaloo is about. What capabilities will it bring to us consumers that we could not possibly get elsewhere?

Cell Schmell

[justin_saunders]

What-EVER.

Goddamn I'm sick of this Cell hype. Especially the "using your toaster to help render Tekken 17 slightly faster" crap.

The thing holding back distributed computing is NOT the freaken' CPU. Its the software. Its not that current CPU's _can't_ do distributed computing. Its NOT that no one thought to add a "DODISTRIB" instruction to current chipsets.

Sure, Cell may do it a bit faster, but it doesn't solve the fundamental problem, which is:

Distributed SOFTWARE is FREAKEN HARD.

If any app could be instantly made significantly faster just by adding an extra cpu on a network, then they would *ALL* be doing it now. Whats stopping your office network into becoming a big distributed pool for all your apps? It certainly isn't the hardware.

If Sony had come up with a software model, or a toolkit, to turn any arbitary app into a optimised distributed computation THEN I would be impressed.

Some distinct terminology, please?

[melee]

Come on guys: do you really have to call every single concept in the system a "cell"? I know you're excited about the concept, but come on. It's just plain confusing.

It could be really neat, but I suspect that (a) it won't work as well as it sounds (b) it'll be a nightmare to program for, so will be poorly used, and (c) no one will use it but Sony.

Been there done that....

[shri]

Broadband TV? Thats so ... 2003. We have had it in Hong Kong for over 10 months now. Connects into the DSL modem and provides on demand cable channels.

http://www.nowbroadbandtv.com/

(My apologies... the site is in flash)