Doctors' Neckties Transmit Germs

bzipitidoo writes "Real geeks don't wear neckties, and maybe the rest of the world wishes they didn't have to. Ties had a minor comeback with the recent bad job market, but hopefully that's behind us. Apart from the obvious that neckties are uncomfortable, useless, in-the-way, and therefore a waste of time and money, too-tight ties constrict blood vessels and raise eye fluid pressure which increases the risk of blindness. Now there's a new study showing that doctors' neckties transmit germs. One suggested remedy from the article is tie condoms."

Comments

how unfortunate

[trs9000]

i for one rather enjoy wearing ties -- especially when its for no real reason. i feel it gives my day a sense of importance or note; you know it just spices things up. im fond of the formality which i feel (fear even) is rapidly declining in our culture. what to substitute this with? any ideas?

Re:how unfortunate

[obeythefist]

I almost always wear a tie. Obviously the poster of this article is profoundly against the wearing of formal clothing, and from the sound of it doesn't know how to tie one without choking himself. A properly tied tie should be comfortable, not constricting.

Here are some reasons to wear a tie:
-You'll appear more professional than your workmates who don't wear one
-You'll appeal more to management types
-You gain the appearance of having status and importance
-It's the only safe place in formal workwear for a man to express himself.
-Ties are a "success indicator", which essentially means that you will be viewed more favourably by persons of the female persuasion (unless your tie has flashing boobies on it).

If none of those reasons has any appeal to you, then don't wear a tie, dress down. The people climbing upwards on the ladder of success will thank you for getting out of their way.

Re:How about pens?

[skinfitz]

I can imagine a lot of pen swapping goes on in hospitals between hospital staff who are actively interacting with patients. This must spread germs!

Pen condoms??!

Dodgy.

[sbszine]

I was going to mod you down, but a lot of people seem to be on your wavelength so I'm going to reply instead. Perhaps someone will enjoy the alternate viewpoint.

Your reasons to wear a tie seem to be based around a dubious ethic of climbing the corporate ladder based on appearance rather than merit, then picking up the sort of classy lady who is mesmerised by business neckwear. Since I lost the tie I am doing way better in both departments.

Wouldn't it be better for everyone if success was earned on the basis of merit / quality rather than their shiny veneer? Think of (for example) successful software versus its less successful, higher quality alternatives. Or politicians. Or people in your workplace. Or whatever.

Re:Dodgy.

[10101001 10101001]

And what makes you think one can't wear a necktie with a ratty t-shirt or pit-stained polo? While it's nice that ties are a common and simple means of adorning rank upon people, they are still useless. Maybe it'd be appropriate to have wristbands instead which are equally useless? Or maybe everyone in the company should wear ties, even the factory workers. It's most silly because ties only mean a vague "I think I'm important" or "the job demands it". So people will assume the job demands it which it makes it a good job. But it doesn't really convey anything.

Re:Dodgy.

[VendingMenace]

crap. I posted this in the wrong place, just a minute ago. I really ment it to be here. I am terribly sorry for the double post (how embarassing). But now on with the real post...

Ok so now you are just being silly. Of couse safty takes precedence over appearence (but not everyone works in a machine shop, do they?) Of course you can wear a tie with a ratty t-shirt or a pit stained polo. THat is not really the point is it? The tie just symbolizes formality, as far as this discussion goes. Now obviously someone who belives in the importance of formality in the work place would not wear a tie with ratty clothes. So we can ingore arguments of this nature.

The REAL question is whether formality is a good thing to have in the workplace or (secondly) whether it is a valid grounds for promotion.

So, let me try to adress this question.

Consider this, if you are having a dinner party. Do you clean up the house some first? (Most people do.) Why? It is not nessesarily functional to have the floor vacumed. Having the bathrooms clean does not make the food taste better. But cleaning the house shows RESPECT for your company. It shows then that you care about them enough to go a little beyond what is absolutely nessesary. IN effect you are saying that "I know you may not really care about athetics while you eat, but this is a way of showing you that i don't mind going a little out of my way for you."

Formality has the same function in the workplace. It shows those whom you work with that you respect your job and that you don't mind trying to look nice while you are working. It shows your boss that think enough of your work to present what is considered a "professional" appearence. Dressing formally at work is a way to make a constant, passive, outward showing of your attitude about your work. It is so wrong for a boss to take into considerations his employee's attitudes as well as performance when giving a promotion? Esp between two equally (or near equally) skilled people.

Again, looking at the dinner party example. Lets say that you are invited to two dinner parties on the same night. For the sake of argument, they are both to be catered by the same company. NOw you know that at person A's house you will find a clean house, sparkling bathroons, vacumed carpets, and all that stuff (the suit and tie, if you will). At person B's house, you will find a house that is in disaray. Magzines and newspapers scaattered across the floor. A bathroom that is in disaray stained walls, ect. (ratty t-shirt and stained polo).

NOw since the dinner is catered, there is no reason to worry about quality or sanitation of food (quality of work is the same). SO which house do you go to? House A or house B? I think most of us would rather go to house A. Even though the presentation has no effect on the taste of the food. WE just feel that that person appreciates us more, cares more about the party, ect. and it is that attitude that we like.

Similarely, in the workplace, if the quality of work done is nearly the same, it is quite reasonable to take into account the attitude that people chose to present while at work. SOme of the attitude that we have towards our work is the way in which we choose to cloth ourselves.

I hope that makes at least some sense. Everything you do reflects your view of the world. This includes the idea that the way your dress reflects your view of your job. At least to some extent.

Re:Dodgy.

[eunos94]

Well, if you're thinking of wearing a tie with a ratty t-shirt, I think that speaks for itself. As for your other points, a tie is as useless as tattoos, piercings, colors and patterns, snaps, rivets, buttons, cuffs and almost anything else that adorns your clothing. One could argue we should all wear bleached canvas so that the we can all be equal. Then we wake up from our 1984 style dream and realize that people wear cloths in a context. A tie is the current way for men in a professional setting to exhibit some control over their appearance. If wristbands were the current way, I'd be all for wearing them too. I don't feel like men have enough ways express themselves through clothing.

However, having everyone wear ties is obviously a bad idea. There are safety issues to be concerned with (the point of the article...I would argue maybe doctors should bypass the tie) and there are practicality issues. If someone is sitting at a desk answering phone calls all day or coding, there is no point in be dressed to the nines. However, someone involved with the public should be concerned about their appearance. You should practice good personal hygeine, clean your cloths and wear cloths appropriate to the situation.

Ties don't adorn rank, they don't say "I'm important". Ties are merely a reflection of your attitude about your workplace. If a tie is appropriate and you chose not to wear one, I think that says a lot about your attitude. There a tons of different ties out there. Find one that reflects your personality and have fun with it. No one ever said a tie had to be black and lifeless. Hell, you can even get ties at ThinkGeek that decry the use of ties. There ya go, the best of both worlds.

Re:Dodgy.

[selderrr]

this is pretty difficult to explain in an online forum, but my guess is that a significant percentage of the population (and expecially of the slashdot public) would choose the other house.

I don't like clean, vacuumed, neat, disinfected, chilling houses. I prefer to go to places where there's still doritos left in the bowl from a previous occasion, where the hall has a bunch of coats and shoes thrown on top of eachother, where the host wears 2 different socks and pants with holes in the pockets. Where the kids scream around me and make a mess of the place.

Honestly. The house you're talking about would raise expectations and create an atmosphere of sterility that would definitely influence the conversation & the mood. I could never be myself in such an environment (except perhaps after consuming enough alocohol) and would never be able to show my personality in both its agreable and annoying qualities.

What you call "showing respect" can equally be called "forcing vistitors to show respect". Unless ofcourse you've been raised in such environment, and consider it to be the standard. Which I really don't think is the case among geeks, and not even among the general population. To counter it : when you have diner with your fishing buddies, do you clean up the house after a long day of fishing ? Offcourse not. Respect is somehting that has not to be worked for. It is there, or it is not.

Re:How about stethoscopes?

[gmhowell]

A GP who scrubbed as much for each patient as a surgeon would be wasting quite a bit of time. And considering the difference in patient load, I bet the GP would have worn his hands literally to the bone within a week:)

I hope the study mentioned in the Reuter's article was a bit better than the blurb made it appear. The 'control' was a security guard. I can think of at least a dozen differences between the guard and the medical staff that could account for this. What's more interesting is that ~50% of the docs were clean. Let's hear about the differences in actions (and cases, and etc. ad nauseum) in those two groups.

Re:How about stethoscopes?

[martinX]

You should be a politician: "Don't worry about this thing, worry about this other thing over here! Scary scary!"

While handwashing is indeed numero uno for reducing cross-contamination (and did you point out to these GPs that they didn't wash their hands?), don't dismiss the humble stethosope as a fomite.

Not everyone has wonderfully intact skin. Though it may not be a gaping wound, there are indeed skin disorders that leave people open to infection. People also have lines in that are always getting damned infected - place a grungy steth near the point of entry and you could be creating the next bacteraemia.

Pop over to PubMed and search on "stethoscope nosocomial infection".

Even though stethoscopes may not be as bad as unwashed hands*, it still doesn't mean we can't take simple precautions to protect patients. And take the opportunity to lose the ties as well.

*note: there hasn't been a double-blind study done of hand-washing versus no handwashing. but you try and get that one past the ethics committee.

Re:How about stethoscopes?

[Vellmont]

I'm sure ties can carry nasty bugs, but there are worse things in the wards.


I guess, but that's hardly the point. Not wearing a necktie is a one time change that's very easy to implement and easy to verify. Getting doctors to wash their hands more is something that requires constant vigilance and is very hard to verify. The fact that there are other things that will reduce hospital disease spreading more effectively is beside the point. It's not as if you can't do both.

Also everyone knows that hands spread disease, so more education is going to have minimal impact. The necktie disease vector is far less known I'm sure, so educating doctors about this would go a long way.