Slashdot Mirror


Do-It-Yourself VOIP Telco

DamnYankee writes "Robert X. Cringley predicts the coming demise of the landline telco monopolies from the grassroots encroachment of VoIP and Linux on the latest generation of Wifi routers. According to Bob, 'The result is a system with economics with which a traditional local phone company simply can't compete'. With Linux capabilities and builtin VoIP any Mom and Pop can become the local equivalent of a cellular phone company for the price of $79 Wifi router. Now how is Verizon going to compete with that? Get the full scoop from the man himself."

29 of 246 comments (clear)

  1. not gonna happen, the lobbies are too powerful by garcia · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Unfortunately the people that control the bandwith that we could use to support this "grassroots" VOIP campaign have very powerful government lobbies. We aren't going to get very far before the government oversteps its bounds and protects the large conglomerates.

    He mentions that the mobile phone markets were a "disruptive technology" against the 125 year old wired telephone business. The single thing he fails to recognize is that the wired phone companies have the largest stakes in the best wireless networks out there (AT&T/Cingular, Verizon, etc).

    He then glazes over the billing possibilities as you jump from router to router. We aren't talking about a cell phone here. We are talking about the possibility of a wireless card in a pocketPC to be used as a phone. It's a bit harder for Joe Blow to get a hacked/stolen SIM card for his phone. It's not quite as hard to get a software program that doesn't give billing information that is tracked back to that "phone" user.

    1. Re:not gonna happen, the lobbies are too powerful by swordboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It won't happen - but not because the lobbies are too powerful. It won't happen because its gonna take a long time before we can get five nines reliability and an organized E911 service for VoIP.

      Right now, Intel, TI and Motorola (among others) are working furiously on WiFi/VoIP roaming for their cellular chips. Once such a device is developed and, most importantly, perfected, it is only a matter of time before the PSTN falls into a state of unsustainability. The PSTN (public, switched telephone network) is bulky - requiring about 40 - 60 percent more cost to operate than a typical packet-switching network like the internet.

      However, I shudder when I say "perfected". Like many other technologies, the *theory* will always seem great while everyone will count on someone else for the execution. Currently, there is no system in place for VoIP users to adequately call each other using non-PSTN based dialing. Certainly, we could all start using dynamic DNS based services but without a centralized, non-greedy institution for creation and allocation, it will be a big fat mess that nobody will want to touch.

      I agree that VoIP should be charged telecom taxes BUT ONLY WHEN THE USER INTERFACES WITH THE PSTN. Right now, that is just about every call, aside from the few geeks who are dialing with IP. And that brings up another problem - who's gonna stop spammers from dialing my VoIP phone from China for the sake of playing a pre-recorded advertisement in my ear?

      --

      Life is the leading cause of death in America.
    2. Re:not gonna happen, the lobbies are too powerful by garcia · · Score: 5, Interesting

      And that brings up another problem - who's gonna stop spammers from dialing my VoIP phone from China for the sake of playing a pre-recorded advertisement in my ear?

      Ahh, the one good thing about VoIP. Full control over what comes in. I get software that is custom. I get to decide who/what/where gets to call me.

      Don't want China ads coming in? Block everything from China. Only want whitelisted people to call you? So be it. Want the phone to ask you if you want to accept a call or block the IP/range?

      All doable.

    3. Re:not gonna happen, the lobbies are too powerful by nahdude812 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Exactly. The way they'll compete is legislation. Imposing huge fees for operating a telco. This'll come under the guise of protecting national security. You see, if every mom and pop can offer secure voip (public/private key encryption generated per-call), the feds can't wire tap. If you want to offer phone service, you'll have to support some proprietary infrastructure that Verizon or other big bells will be happy to develop for the government free of charge. They'll then be happy to license it to Mom & Pop for $500,000/year for up to 10,000 users, as the base (cheapest) license, then it gets more expensive after that.

      But there's only one version of the softare, so unless you're running VerizonOS, you can't run it. Reversing the encryption (which is actually just an XOR against 0x00) will be illegal under the DMCA, and so there will not be any Linux/FOSS versions of the software, because to get there you have to have violated the DMCA.

      This software will spring up out of Russia as FOSS, but its use within the U.S. will result in jail time.

      Now the nation is protected, you see.

      Following this, you'll see a group of FOSSers who decide that such things really should be free, and you'll find an underground network flying right through the radio waves in the air. Users who rebel against federal legislation and establish VoIP networks across the Internet using 802.11 or whatever the broad range wireless standard is at the time. They'll go on in relative anonymity for a while, but they'll all be struck with how very very cool this technology is, and they'll build steam and momentum, attracting other users to the technology until all of the sudden, someone pays attention, and legislation comes in that starts to restrict the use of such things.

      Users will cry foul, people will claim this violates their first ammendment rights, and then Apple will release iPhone, with pretty colors, in hardware that looks edible, and whose color scheme wouldn't offend a conservative grandmother on a bad LSD trip. People will flock to this "new technology" and sell their souls to it before they realize that it's the same thing as what they had before, only it's got more restrictions.

      Soon Microsoft and Sony will realize that they've been behind the times on this stuff, and they'll release their own alternatives which offer extra features that no one wants or needs. The physical design of the hardware will look like a high school sophomore sketching doodles in the edges of his notebook paper, compared against Apple's Mona Lisa level design. Micorosoft and Sony will have invested several million dollars in to this before they realize that they're always playing catchup, and have never reached the black, financially speaking, on these products, when they discontinue the line, completely stranding those who *had* bought in to it.

      Later, Apple will announce a deal where they buy Verizon and several other major telco's, who are now on the financial rocks, and every time you answer your phone, you'll hear a "Bong" and your phone will smile at you to let you know everything is ok.

      Soon after this, you'll see Apple G7's booting up with a picture of Steve Wozniak with borg implants badly photoshopped over his face.

    4. Re:not gonna happen, the lobbies are too powerful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      So you're basically saying that VoIP makes your phone calls as controllable as your spam email?

      FanTAStic!

    5. Re:not gonna happen, the lobbies are too powerful by Elvon+Livengood · · Score: 4, Informative

      The telephone network has been packet-switched for decades. Do you own or work for a small business? You don't have phone lines. You have a T-1.

      Sounds like you're confusing digital with packet-switched. A T1 is a 1.544Mbps digital circuit, often chopped up into 24 64kbps voice-grade circuits. That T1 that serves your local business is a dedicated circuit from your location to your telco office. Even if you're using that T1 for Frame Relay, or ATM, or TCP/IP, it's still a dedicated circuit from the point it leaves your premise to the point it hits the packet-switching equipment on the other end.

      Plain Old Telephone Service (known as POTS in the industry) gets digitized after it leaves your handset and before it gets far into the local telco central office. For a business system, the digitization could be in the PBX. For a home, it might be in a box on the corner of the neighborhood. The usual conversion is to a 64kbps data stream. No compression, no packetization. When you make a call, it rides on a 64kbps channel all the way until it gets to the final digital-analog jump-off point. If you're calling cross-country, you are the sole user of that 64k channel for the entire time you're on the call. A given T1 will carry 24 of them simultaneously, a T3 will carry 672.

      One of the biggest advantages of packetized voice (be it VoIP, VoATM, VoFrame Relay or whatever) is that using compression, silence supression and a couple of other tricks, an acceptable voice channel can use as little as 8kbps. You get much more efficient use of the bandwidth. But the general Public Switched Telephone Network doesn't do this - it's circuit switching all the way.

    6. Re:not gonna happen, the lobbies are too powerful by Elvon+Livengood · · Score: 5, Informative

      Hm. This is new information for me. I thought a vox T-1 was muxed at the packet level. Now you're telling me that it's muxed in some other way?

      Yup. The term you're looking for is "Time Domain Multiplexing" - TDM. Each channel gets a time slice of the circuit, just under 1/24th of the total. There's a bit of overhead. This 1/24th, or 64k is allocated *whether that channel is in use or not*. And while it's in use, the "user" gets all 64k of it. Even if the mouthpiece of the phone is disconnected and nobody's talking the other way - no use on the 'line' whatsoever - the call is still using the 64k channel.

      Cell or packet switching is a different animal altogether. A given channel may have a certain bandwidth guaranteed, and may be able to use well over that guaranteed amount, depending on the technology and lots of other stuff. Your average cell/packet circuit is only firing cells about 10% of the time.

      The TDM part of a data circuit puts a hard limit the overall bandwidth. If you've got a T1 connection to your ISP, you can't send/receive more than 1.544Mbps, even if the ISP's router can switch hundreds of Mbps and they have an OC12 to their next peer. And if the site you're communicating with depends on an even lower bandwidth connection - such as when a dial-up user hits your ftp server - then *their* circuit is the limiting factor.

  2. Verizon will compete... by jgabby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The phone companies will compete by lobbying making sure that any startup VOIP phone company has to pay the same taxes and fees, and has to provide 911 and wiretapping, etc.

    1. Re:Verizon will compete... by retrev · · Score: 4, Informative
    2. Re:Verizon will compete... by KarmaOverDogma · · Score: 4, Insightful

      not only that but if these types of services ever involve people paying ANY fee for VOIP (I.E., if it is not free) then regulation, IMO is inevitable.

      Also, when any of the following issues occur to the FREE or modest fee VOIP/WIFI provider, well meaning people/small businesses of modest means will give pause when considering wehter to provide these services:

      * someone cant be reached in an "emergency" so the provider is sued
      * a "service disruption" is deemed unaceptable and the provider is sued
      * the VOIP/WIFI is hacked for phun
      * someone and/or some business/organization, (ab)uses the VOIP/WIFI to spam/troll/hack a major telco/consumer/business/gov't agency and gets sued.
      * insert your ignorant/money-grubbing/just plain wierd lawsuit here.

      Like that old saying goes: No Good deed Goes unpunished.

      --
      uR iGn0ranc3, Their Power
    3. Re:Verizon will compete... by gmack · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'd settle for forcing VOIP companies to provide the same reliability.

      This all reminds me of a Grou Telecom outage a couple years ago. They lost a core IP router. Guess what happened to all of their VOIP stuff? That's right.. all down.. We had to contact our sales rep by her cell phone because their helpdesk was dead.

      Right now I'm not seeing VOIP as anything more than a way to cut down on my long distace bills.

  3. Ahem... by Noryungi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Don't you need an ADSL/Cable connection to that little router? Yes, I know you can have your packets hop over to the next router and so on, but the article is still pretty optimistic.

    (and, yes, I did RTFA)

    Let's face it: if the big telcos aren't dead by now, this means they are not going to die anytime soon. I doubt Verizon is quaking in its boots right now...

    --
    The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
  4. Interesting but is it ready for Prime Time? by erick99 · · Score: 4, Informative
    The author gets pretty excited by the opportunities that the router provides. However, it sounded a bit complicated to me and I wonder how well this would work if a lot of people did it. Is there sufficient capacity within the Internet to handle thousands and thousands of little phone companies? And, can you imagine the customer service issues which you would be handling from home...in your spare time. Still, it is a very cool idea the early adopters and the innovators will have fun with it.

    Take care!

    Erick

    --
    http://www.busyweather.com/
  5. big companies CAN change by magarity · · Score: 5, Interesting

    a system with economics with which a traditional local phone company simply can't compete'

    How many times have we heard that (insert some innovation here) will lead to the demise of (insert traditional provider here). Look, the only times when large established providers of a given good or service are eliminated by something new is when entrenched management gets hubris and thinks the new thing is not worth their bother. If/when the existing telcos realise they need to get on this bandwagon they will, and with a vengance. You can't count out the resources they can bring to bear until they don't and are truly out.

    1. Re:big companies CAN change by Big_Al_B · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The entrenched telcos seem far more like the RIAA/MPAA to me; they have this new fangled competitor looming on the horizon and instead of pouring money into R&D are pouring it into the legal department and campaign contributions instead.

      The company I work for is a "traditional" regional IXC/CLEC. We've poured mucho dinero into R&D on packetizing and "converging" our network. After much blood, sweat, and tears, we've been able to provide a converged IP service that really doesn't suck. But, packets and Wi-Fi are not the magic bullets that some would believe.

      Sure, anyone with a strong Wi-Fi antenna and a few IADs strewn about can make real-time interactive audio work. That's not the challenge. The challenge really lies in providing carrier-class services over IP. People expect phones to work, 100% of the time, between any two handsets worldwide. And they want audio quality and precision clarity.

      In that regard solutions are still expensive to provide, and expensive to purchase. IP savvy switches are still buggy, feature-sparse, and prone to audio quality issues. Your average DMS and 5ESS may use Model T technology and take up a whole lot of bays, but for making plain old phone calls, it'll outperform the Ferrari's of the IP world.

      Add up consumer broadband transport, untamed Internet ebbs and flows, Wi-Fi frequencies that compete moment-to-moment with cordless phones and microwaves, and you've got a lot of unsatisfied neighbors dropping your shiny new home telco for an old princess phone and an RBOC.

  6. I prefer telephones that work by Detritus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You can always do it cheaper if reliability and availability are not important. My wireline telephone just works. I've had one outage in the past 15 years. I've never had a dropped call. The switch never crashes, get infected with viruses, or demands that I upgrade to MS Telephone 2.0. It provides battery power to my telephone, ensuring that it still works even during blackouts and storms. It provides enhanced 911 service if I need it.

    --
    Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  7. It's fun to play with though... by gozar · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've setup a Linux box and Asterisk along with a couple Grandstream IP phones. The quality was as good as a landline phone, and we'll probably be rolling out a test next year sometime, putting phones in all the classrooms (we're a public school). One card in the server to get us an outside line and we're set....

    As soon as wireless VOIP phones come down in price, I'll be running my own wireless service for myself. I plan on setting up an Asterix server at home plugged into my landline. I can then use my VOIP phone anywhere in the world to call!

    Being able to cheaply setup VOIP using your existing landline at home will decimate cell service as soon as more WIFI hotspots get out. IDT is already looking at this as a replacement for cell services.

    --
    What, me worry?
  8. VoIP isn't that easy (or: You need more bandwidth) by parc · · Score: 4, Informative

    You need more bandwidth than you think.
    Remember, ADSL and cable are asymmetric. That upstream bandwith is usually 256-384k. Each VoIP call is going to take anywhere between 24 and 64k of that just for the audio. Add on to that the administration overhead (UDP/IP and whatever stream management protocol you're using), and it starts to chew away at your bandwidth.
    Additionally, the connection you've got is designed for bursty traffic. VoIP is most definitely NOT bursty (unless you use silence suppression, which I've yet to see a vendor get right). If you packet delay gets over 150ms, you're going to be upset. Jitter larger than about 50-80ms is going to screw with your call quality. I've done VoIP networks, and can attest to the catestrophic effects of just a small amount of jitter when you start to get near your 150ms limit.

    Don't get me wrong: VoIP is here and going strong. But it's doing so in high-quality networks that can afford to supply fixed-bandwidth reservation, , not commodity broadband products.

  9. I use VoIP today. This doesn't seem likely. by mjh · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm a vonage customer. I shed my dependance on the local telco with great pleasure, and a bit of egotisitcal pride. Still, having used it for about 8 months, I've come to this conclusion: it ain't for everyone.

    Now don't get me wrong, I'm not going back. But I can't imagine my neighbors buying into what RXC suggests. First of all, there's a reliability issue. Folks need to have 911 service available. They need to be able to call the power company in the event of an outage. They need the phone to be a *LOT* more reliable than current VOIP is.

    For me, when the power goes out in our neighborhood, it doesn't matter that I've got my VOIP device connected to a UPS. When the neighborhood loses power, my broadband internet loses connectivity. No internet, no phone. No phone, no way to call the power company to report an outage. It gets worse if you imagine someone needing emergency services (e.g. 911) during a power outage.

    It's a nice theory, but it doesn't scale. And reliability is the limitation. Right now, I (personally) can put up with the lack of reliability because I know that my neighbors have nice reliable land line based phones, and in a pinch, I can pester one of them to make a phone call. (I've got good neighbors, all of whom are willing to help each other out in a pinch.) But if the entire neighborhood were on VOIP, we'd all suffer. VOIP today just doesn't have the reliability to scale. Some of us who are willing to put up with the occasional echoes, inconsistent quality, and lower reliability (in exchange for much lower cost). But we can't all do that. We rely on some of the neighborhood to have a real and reliable phone service. VOIP isn't there yet. So it won't scale as far as a neighborhood. Much less become a "disruptive technology".

    $.02

    --
    Key to financial independence: Spend less than you earn. Save and invest the difference. Do it for a long time.
  10. Voice networks are overlooked already. by Trigun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Voice network hacking has gone overlooked by both hackers and security professionals alike. With enough know-how, one can hack a PBX and make long distance calls, copy voice mail, do all kinds of evil stuff. The stakes were raised when they (the voicemail companies) tied voicemail and e-mail together.

    I would hazard to say that many companies voice networks are just as vulnerable as their data networks, or even moreso, but they are not targetted as much, so they do not get as much attention.

  11. What about emergency services? by Lodragandraoidh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What about critical services, such as 911 service? Are going to equip all of your customers with backup generators to power their VOIP phones and other network devices (router) during a power outage?

    You might say to me, "well, people today use cellphones as their primary means of communications - and they are responsible to ensure it is charged up in the event of an emergency". That may be true. However, everyone does not have cell phone service - or wants cell phone service for that matter. As a common carrier, phone companies have a responsibility to provide dialtone for everyone who wants it - and as a result provide emergency services.

    It is also prohibitively costly to provide fibre to every location - particularly in rural areas. Given that, broadband service will not be available to drive VOIP solutions.

    If we decide to drop copper as an alternative, then we will lose big when some event occurs that prevents a VOIP user from getting a critical emergency call through - and the resulting lawsuits and regulations will stifle growth and acceptance of VOIP as a viable universal solution.

    --

    Lodragan Draoidh
    The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
  12. Re:I tried this as a child by superid · · Score: 5, Funny

    Your roaming policy was just too restrictive.

  13. Thanks, but no thanks by Etyenne · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Would I trade the reliability of my landline (I can't remember losing service in the past ... 15 years ?) for some ghetto rig built on consummer-level equipement running over best-effort protocol to shave a few $ from my monthly telephone bill of 25$ ? Thanks, but no thanks.

    --
    :wq
  14. Deja Vu ? by MosesJones · · Score: 4, Insightful


    Umm does anyone else here remember the Sears/Gap/Borders are dead stories from around 1998/99 because the Mom and Pop stores would beat them thanks to ".com".

    I've read the article and I'm not seeing anything different, and certainly nothing that thinks about the realities of providing secure 911 access and QoS over a WiFi router and ADSL.

    --
    An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
  15. Re:The gov't will screw 'em... by thedillybar · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The gov't is already regulating the hell out of the old PSTN networks. Why wouldn't the same regulations apply to VoIP?

    Sure VoIP looks cheaper to us right now, but PSTN would be cheaper if they weren't regulated so much too. VoIP has an unfair advantage right now because it's not being regulated. It's not a matter of regulating the hell out of VoIP because PSTN has friends in the gov't, it's a matter of applying the same regulations to VoIP that PSTN has seen for years.

    Next thing you know AIM will be ruled a telephone company because of the "talk" feature.

    Are you suggesting that VoIP companies shouldn't be considered telephone companies?

  16. Re:Your brother is in China on business by The+Salamander · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I already effectively have a whitelist on my phone.

    If the number is not in my address book, the phone does not ring, and goes straight
    to voicemail.

    If it is someone I wanted to talk to, and they left a voicemail, I can return the call at my leisure and perhaps add their number to the whitelist.

  17. QOS, and Cable television by telemonster · · Score: 4, Informative

    *sigh*

    First off, the minute you go from a VOIP endpoint to the POTS phone system (you know, to route calls to legacy landline equipment) you are then classified as a phone company. This is where the tarrifs come in. This might not be the case if you just went from VOIP to Cellular, not 100% positive.

    Next up, while the Vonage/Packet8 endpoints work well, it can be a pain deploying a reliable VOIP network. Qualtiy of service is a must, because a large email with an attachment can totally take out audio in one direction for a few seconds.

    VOIP is neat, I think it will seriously cut into the long distance profits, but *I* firmly believe wireless phones are more of a threat to landline POTS service. I think the phone companies need to replace the legacy ESS5a switches with something newer, capable of dropping 50mbps to each copper customer.

    Personally I plan to move my phone lines to a message rate service, it's incoming only landline. I believe it is about $10 a month. This supports the excuse to have a PBX at home :-)

    --
    Southeastern Virginia REPRESENT!
  18. Competition by Jaysyn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Now how is Verizon going to compete with that?"

    You see there are these things that companies buy called laws....

    Jaysyn

    --
    There is a war going on for your mind.
  19. My own Pirate VoIP network! by Orion+Blastar · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Ironic that I use the local telco company for DSL, and my wireless router can be used to take away business from them. ;)

    --
    Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.