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Programming For Terrified Adults?
makeitreal writes "My mom is getting bored with learning the basics of email and has mastered Solitaire. She asked me what I do on my computer and I told her that I was teaching myself programming in Scheme. She expressed an interest in learning what I was doing, but I tried to teach it to her with the HtDP and we didn't even get past the introductory chapter. Everything I've looked at so far seems too complicated (Scheme, Python, VB) or too childish (Logo, Squeak, Lego Mindstorms). Is there anything in the middle that is also cheap/free and suitable for adults? Or should I give up the whole idea?"
Give up. She'll just be unemployed like the rest of us.
I've always thought The Little Schemer would be good for this kind of thing.
See you, space cowboy...
Teaching your mom programming?! What a strange idea... Next you'll be saying Linux is ready for the desktop...
void*x=(*((void*(*)())&(x=(void*)0xfdeb58)))();
There is nothing childish about Squeak or Logo. Squeak is a complex, high-powered Smalltalk development environment. I'd consider it too complex for beginning programmers, although I gather some people are using it for teaching introductory courses. And despite its innocent appearance, Logo is a powerful programming language.
But why not pick some language she might actually use for something? PHP or JavaScript might be a good choice. Or the Macromedia Flash scripting language--that way, she could make animations.
If she really wants to learn it as an intellectual exercise, I'd just stick with Scheme for her--there are good learning environments and tons of materials for learning programming with Scheme.
Try teaching her assembly language. There's nothing simpler. Its almost like using a calculator:
..
load this
load that
add
store
That's it!
No data, no cry
She is just trying to reach you and understand you more.
What it probably means is this: Take her out more often then just once a year you geek!
Tables can be pretty involved, if you a just using notepad as an editor.
However, the point of learning HTML first is that it teaches you a few concepts that will be helpful in programming, namely the importance of structure and correct spelling and grammar in order to generate the desired results.
It is also simple to teach, and gives results quickly, and most people have the tools already on their computer, namely a browser and a text editor.
HTML isn't a "programming" language, but through use it does demonstrate some "programming concepts. When you start using HTML POST/GET forms you start learning about variable naming. Then, moderate use of JavaScript introduces if/else, loops, as well as more variable concepts. So, with those experiences learning C, JAVA, or whatnot will mostly be learning syntax. Getting more advanced, you could venture into data structures and OOP.
$cat
Powerful, useful and uses almost nouns and verbs. If she doesn't have a Mac, this would be a great excuse to get one.
For instance, here's a quickie script to mail a URL from my desktop machine from my PowerBook:
tell application "Safari"
tell window 1
set n to name
end tell
tell document 1
set u to URL
end tell
end tell
tell application "Mailsmith" of machine "eppc://GreyGhost.local"
make new message window with properties {subject:s, contents:""}
end tell
Easy to follow, yes? You get go from the barebones simplistic (like above) to highly involved workflow solutions.
Well, of course HTML isn't very complicated ... but it also isn't programming. It's more akin to word processing. What would be the point? It has none of the fundamental elements of programming, such as variables, branching, etc. In fact, pretty much the only thing it has in common with any programming language is the word "language."
I write software for a living, but I never know what direction to go in until I have a well-defined set of goals. Learning is kind of the same beast.
A good example might be a recipe program (to go on the typical "mom"). You could start out with some simple GUI stuff, putting windows on the screen, maybe a couple simple menus and clickies. The first recipies can be hardcoded, then back it with a simple database.
Sure as hell beats writing Hello World programs.
:wq
Eh. It's a quick and easy fix for someone who wants to "make their computer do something". It also tends to push the person to learn Javascript, and from there to learn PHP. It's like letting a young child play with a pen prior to them learning the alphabet. They learn the basic control over the instrument. (in the case of HTML: dealing with syntax, the importance of precision, learning mnemonic tricks for remembering things like "img src" (IMaGe SouRCe), etc.)
Yes, it's not a programming language--but look at the goals. To allow someone to branch out into a new area. It's unlikely his mom wants to become a professional programmer...
-Sara
In conclusion I think that the best are probably BASIC or Python, and I would lean to the latter. And no matter how much you want to help her yourself, I would suggest getting her a good book on the language to read. Preferable one geared to new programmers (instead of a "___ for C++ programmers" type books, or a massive tome of everything in the language).
Hope that helps. I'll answer any questions on the why I think such and such about the languages above or any other language if you just reply to this.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
As a college programming instructor, I totally disagree with this. I'd love to test your hypothesis by:
(1) Posting your "immediate" Java code creating a window, button, etc.
(2) Showing it to this guy's mother, and
(3) Being there when she freaks out over it.
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
Any language you choose is easy once you 'get it'. No language is intuitive or easy. Basic concepts are relatively simple in all languages (if/then, looping, comparisons, basic math) but the use of those methods to DO stuff is what's hard.
She's eventually going to need to bite the bullet and figure out how it all goes together. No pain, no gain and programming is all about pain.
Suggestion - have her conceive of something she'd like to automate. Does she use spreadsheets? Great! There have to be any number of things she does over and over and over that would be prime candidates for coding. Guess what? Most sheets include programming languages. Now she has a goal (automate a task) and a tool (scripting language). She's 1/2 way there.
Once she's gotten her feet wet, it's just a matter of building more and more complex systems and figuring out the techniques of programming.
My personal choice for the best tool to quickly and easily build apps that really do cool stuff - Lotus Notes. Full built in development environment, choice of two built in languages plus hooks to whatever else you'd like, a limited number of widgets with a limited number of methods and properties - it's totally possible to get the entire environment into your head making it easy to focus on the objective rather than finding the right method. Downside - you gotta buy the designer client and it's about a grand.
Python is similar to Notes in that the language is small enough to grasp and is extensible.
If she gives you crap about 'it'll take me years to learn how to do this', just tell her the years are going to go by whether or not she tries this so go for it!
HTH and wish her well - old farts can learn new tricks too.
Dogu (an old fart who gets paid to write code)
The Persistence Of Vision Raytracer. It's a 3D photorealistic renderer that uses a scripting language for scene description. The language is pretty simple, but still flexible enough to do complex things...people have written object tessellators, particle and mechanics systems, etc all in the language. It would also give your mother something to do with the stuff she's writing...make pretty pictures. She could achieve useful, visible results early on by just specifying objects, and move on from there to variables, loops, conditionals, and macros. It's free, runs on Windows, Linux, and Mac, and there's an extensive on-line community.
http://www.povray.org/
For example, here's a script that puts 9 reflective spheres in a ring on a checkered plane:
camera {
location < 0, 3,-8>
look_at < 0, 0.5, 0>
angle 35
}
light_source {<-5, 8,-3>, color rgb <1, 1, 1>}
plane {y, 0
pigment {checker color rgb < 1, 1, 1>, color rgb < 0, 0, 0>}
}
union {
#local J = 0;
#while(J < 9)
sphere {< 1, 0.25, 0>, 0.25 rotate y*J*360/9}
#local J = J + 1;
#end
pigment {color rgb < 1, 1, 1>}
finish {reflection 1 diffuse 0 ambient 0}
}
I went from HTML to Javascript to Perl.
HTML: Not programming, but as far as a terrified adult is concerned, what's the difference?
Javascript: Start off learning to write HTML to your pages and ask for names via prompts and stuff. Annoying, evil stuff, but it makes you wanna learn more. Before you know it you're on to using it to solve logic problems or what have you.
Perl: This wasn't due to prompting from Javascript, just ego (my brother knew it), but if I hadn't known Javascript I would have thought it far too complex. The fact that it's easier is irrelevant, it can read/write files, therefore it's harder. It also can't do any of the flashy stuff Javascript can wihout a LOT of fiddling around with complex modules, so there's not much reason to learn it until you realise what it CAN do, such as wordsearches.
But if someone learns to make web pages with HTML, they learn a certain level of abstraction that is fundamentally necessary for any basic sort of programming. I teach computer science in a high school, and we start with HTML for this very reason. By the time they can write img tags and link tags, students have started internalizing the idea that these funny written symbols can produce something more concrete.
BTW, I recomment Logo for the very same reason - IIRC, it was designed to present abstract concepts in a concrete, visual-kinesthetic way. In the past I have started a class with turtle graphics and progressed to having them write a simple 8 bit binary adder by writing functions for various logic gates and combining them.
Even heroes have the right to dream
True, but it is a good introduction to other more involved laguages.
In what way ?
In this way:
- It shows the user that most programming can be done by a text editor alone (lets not confuse her with a compiler just yet).
- It shows her how important syntax can be.
- It gives tangible results very quickly.
- After you've created a static page, you can introduce her to JavaScript... a programming language that again doesn't require a compiler but contains a C like syntax, gives her a feel for conditions, arrays, loops and even regex if she wants to go there. Best of all it is simple, has loosely typed variables and runs from just about any browser. Plus Mozilla has an excelent debugger.
- After she's figured out how for loops and comparators and functions work and realizes she can only do so much with JavaScript, introduce her to a server side language, and go crazy from there.
But the most important reason of all I can think of starting her off with HTML, is because she can show off her work to her friends, both faster and in a much more impressive manner than writing something in perl/c/c++/java/vb/python/whatever, and they will be able to appreciate it.I'm a writer, a poet, a genius, I know it. I don't buy software, I grow it.
http://modena.intergate.ca/personal/gslj/hypera
Deleted
Cons:
I'd say it would be a good 'second start', the first one being HTML. Just make sure you don't give them a book/tutorial that emphasises flashiness, uses browser detects (unless there really isn't any alternative), fails to acknowledge the existance of other browsers than IE, or is in general plain stupid. The site having Javascript errors is a sure sign of wanting to stay away.
> My mom is getting bored with learning the basics of email
> and has mastered Solitaire.
And you want her to program!? Nonsense. Get her up to speed on
Minesweeper and her MCSE is in the bag!
It has a syntax.
It is easy to deploy
It applies the concept of nesting
Its a weak introduction to xml
It can be mastered in a matter of days
Its a great launchpad towards JavaScript
It makes old ladies smile a heck of a lot more than
I'm a writer, a poet, a genius, I know it. I don't buy software, I grow it.
What does Mom do when she is not on the computer? What interests does she have? Who does she e-mail?
Rather than just looking at programming, maybe she is more generally looking for other things to do with her computer. Maybe her interest in programming is more of an interest in you and what you enjoy doing.
Does she craft? Does she garden? Does she cook? Would she like to play bridge with other people rather than just playing solitaire? Would she be interested in putting together a family history? Does she know how to engage safely with other folks with her interests on the internet? Can she google?
Is she an organization nut who would love to put things in databases? Does she have a collection she would like to itemize? Such lists and collections can be easier maintained on a computer. How about an inventory for insurance purposes? Would she want to use some sort of financial management program?
Would she be interested in obtaining recipes, craft ideas, or patterns?
Would she like to read, discuss, or publish poetry?
As for learning how to program, if her current activities do not point you in another obvious direction, HTML is an excellent place to start.
For all those screeching that HTML is not a programming language, what is there to reply but "duh, my aren't we all impressed that you recognize that HTML is markup language, bully for you."
Now let's help Mom.
HTML will get Mom used to typing in a text editor to produce a file which will get transformed into something else.
Mom will get instant gratification seeing her results in a web browser.
Mom will, within a few minutes, have something she can actually use and share with others.
Mom will make mistakes, see those mistakes, and be able to fix those mistakes.
Mom will get used to working with blocks.
Mom hopefully will see the advantages of writing in a manner which is easy to read.
A terrified adult does not need a tutorial on structured programming.
She needs to become not terrified.
Riannin
Everyone who said HTML is not a programming language is worried that they are not actually competent programmers. You're missing the big picture.
This is where so many of us fail our customers (and I do mean customers -- we work in a customer service industry, get used to it). We feel like we have to hide the following facts:
Being able to code well is not a viture, it's a talent. You're not holy because you can make more efficient use of the EAX register than your neighbor. And being able to code simple things is not out of the realm of ANYONE. It may be VERY simple things, but people can learn to fend for themselves in simple matters. Macros, mail filters, PowerPoint animation -- these things are ALL programming! Maybe not as holy as you all would like, but they are programming. Many developers feel like they are the priests of the code, and they have to prevent the laity from THINKING that they have anything figured out, because if the laity could figure any one thing out for themselves, then they might figure out OTHER things, and soon, what would they need priests for? Relax, you devout catholic programmers (I mean catholic as in definition #1 -- not religiously) programmers. Just because the laity can learn a little HTML, doesn't mean that your days of molesting your clients are over. You don't have to slam the door on HTML being a language as if it was heresy, and will undermine the church. Lighten UP!!!
My administrative assistant writes simple queries (forgotten username/passwords) because I took the time to show her how to do it. She also now maintains the web pages that deal with technical support for our product. Now, it's true, her account only has select permissions because I'm not ready to give her the keys to the DB. I also don't require her to check her web pages into CVS (although I should, it's so simple). It probably took 15 minutes to teach her how to read the schema, and how to structure a basic select. And she had had NO previous SQL experience. I've also heard MANY people say that SQL is not a programming language. This is just ridiculous.
Some developers poo poo (that's right, I said poo poo) HTML because it is easier to do, and people who THEY don't consider super smart are able to produce web pages. Because someone without formal training in "the art" can make something that makes a computer "do" something, insecure developers must berate that accomplishment.
This is arrogance of the highest order. Get over yourselves. None of us is Einstein. And programming is not the intellectual equivalent of a pissing contest. There is nothing sacred about what we do. Some people tend to talk about programming as if it's some mysterious art (not criticizing the Donald, whose books I revere). It's not. Some developers like to distguish themselves from "scripters." Some developers look down on DBA's as people who only maintain/tend the data.
You're all missing the fact that EVERYTHING that computers do is ONLY about the display and manipulation of data/information. All SGML derivatives are rules that the computer interprets, and then executes instructions based on those rules. And execution of rules is (IMHO)the beginning of programming
The reality is that we should be happy to have people understand how things rea
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm
My home economics teacher says that one must never place one's elbows on the table. However, I have read that one elbow, in between courses, is all right. Which is correct?
Gentle Reader:
For the purpose of answering examinations in your home economics class, your teacher is correct. Catching on to this principle of education may be of even greater importance to you now than learning correct current table manners, vital as Miss Manners believes that is.
...and her growing passion for computers.
DEFINETLY PERSUE THIS TASK!
commenting the above.
me thinks, that html seems to be a great choice as the parent points out:
- it is great as an introduction to getting the "machine" to do what "you" want
-> this feeling of control encourages to learn more
- it will make them familiar looking at conventional (as in content) text, mixed with text expressing abstract ideas
-> any one familiar wit LaTeX has to view html as just anoter way of wordprocessing; though what it comes down to and is of interest for the poster is, that learning and using html is a great introduction, especially for those having difficulty with anything 'academic', combining regular text, their content, with controling text. controling in the sense, as it has some form of control over the display of the content by the browser [regarding html].
then there is not only html. once you start to delve into the subject, you will unavoidably be confronted with such things as css, php, javascript, etc. php will again be daughnting, and far to advanced. javascript though, can be hacked by any script kidy.
now we are not only looking at formating text. even if his mother chose css as her next step. she will start to discover how to gain even more power over the machine, as now first actual manipulations are possible. this ability also delivers a sense of capability, encouraging to tackle more difficult issues/tasks. as well as that it trains the brain in abstraction, the basic principals of coding (creating folders, organising files, all very basic stuff, but the UNDERSTANDING delivers far more insight into the actual functioning of a computer), and give a first impression of the linguistic capabilities a machine has.
teaching your parents can be a daunting task, that one want to organise in a way, to make the whole adventure as pleasent, easy, and least time consuming as possible.
with html you can let you mum play around. introduce her to a simple editor where she can easily switch from editor to browser view, and explain this concept to her (first look into the difference of code and application, both are text, but both text have different meanings; to US this concept is as obvious as that the sky is blue, just as proving the existence of a probability is trivial to a mathematician, anyone new to programing is confused, that there is text[code] and that there is text[actuall text displayed through code], as one can note in the way i have written this down, 2 them it is all just TEXT). then give her a simple, but not so trivial, example that she can play around with. give her a bunch of links where to find more information. and then let nature do its thing.
i have tought english to chinese kids, who didn't speak a word of it, while i don't know a word of chinese (exagerating, by then i had learnt how to say 'hello' = 'ni`hao'), i have troubleshoot the troubles of my grandfather and given him basic instructions an application usage via the phone to england, i have helped out most friends and any other family member, besides my job as a software and web deveopment consultant. my experience is: give them the fundementals, and then just be there while they play around. remember all those animal movies, how every animal learns while playing. hhhmmm, (not) sorry if i offend any believers, but we are animals. ergo, we learn through playing. while watching them, guide them. by that i mean, show them how they can gain more. in any game one can not only get stuck, but also go down paths, that lead no where. that is where your job as a teacher comes in: you are their guide. you mountain guide tells you about the pit falls, points out dangers and oportunities, great views, as well as the best way to the desired destination. guide your student (mother) into the computer park .
good luck, and hopefully also fun;)