Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Patents The Task List
theodp writes "'Better not get too fancy with your grocery list, now that Microsoft has patented a glorified form of the to-do list.' Issued Tuesday, the patent covers the use of a 'task list' generated from 'TODO' comments in source code."
I haven't read the patent (it is Slashdot after all), but the Eclipse development environment does this.
They've actually had this in Visual Studio for a while: you can easily set any source or error (during the compile) as a "to do", which attaches itself to the project. In .NET, you can have "to dos" over different languages in the same project (which I haven't seen in too many IDEs).
Others may have it, but it's one of those quiet innovations MS has they don't make too much noise about. Like Autocomplete (can't run across a single browser nowadays that doesn't have this).
Eclipse wasn't released until 2001 at the very very earliest.
This patent was filed in 2000.
Microsoft wins.
Actually this is a bloody good patent, one that actually makes sense and is worth patenting.
The @todo tag has been an unofficial part of Sun's javadoc utility since at least 1999, possibly earlier. However, I don't think javadoc generated a task list from them.
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws-Plato
The second page of the linked article in the parent explains that this might even be technology that Borland did give Microsoft from the Delphi stuff.
1999 article discussing the ToDo features in Delphi 5:
Here you go.... From this page: http://www.marcocantu.com/papers/face5.htm
"The ToDo List is a great tool for tracking the progress of a single person or an entire team in developing and debugging a project. The ToDo Items window automatically scans the source code of the entire project, looking for ToDo comments and the project's special ToDo file. Its visual support is outstanding. I'm using the list frequently with my projects."
So as we have all been reading Eclipse has been doing this since November 2001. Well, sorry! The Microsfot patent was filed on March 6, 2000. Does this mean we will see a lawsuit from Microsoft against Eclipse? Or perhaps forcing Eclipse to license that "feature"?
Hmmm.
They want you to pay through the nose for everything. Conservationism is about freezing the entire state of society so it may never change. That's what is attained with these patents. Add to that the "our president knows better than we do" attitude and you can watch the swastikas come into fashion again.
Uhh...the Internet? (rejected, Al Gore invented that)
I hate this false urban legend because I believe it cost Gore a few votes. He never said it, and this was spread as a rumor to make Gore sound like a pompous jerk. (His personality did leave something to be desired, but get a guy for stuff he's done, not made up shit).
Yeah, he said he "creat[ed] the internet", and that's a stretch (outside forces helped a lot), but the Invented thing makes him sound like he pretended he was at Berkeley, sharing missives with Postel and Stevens, looking at packet headers, which he never meant to imply. The people who pushed this quote out are smart enough to know the connotation, but then play dumb when people challenge this "oh it means the same" when the connotation is clearly different.
Rant mode off.
You mean in the 70s you had a integrated, interactive development environment that automatically parsed the code while you worked on it and maintained a networked, shared database of task items which could automatically update the code for you when you checked off a task as completed, or automatically update database when you changed the code?
Wow, you were really ahead of your time. Too bad you didn't share all the nifty graphical multithreaded network technology with us. We had to spend a couple of decades inventing the infrastructure you had all the time.
Or maybe you should just read the patent before blindly accepting the Slashdot spin on it.
(And for all the other posters: no, "grep TODO *.c" doesn't count. That does not match the method described in the patent, which is fairly specific and thus narrow. It does not cover any form of todo list or stylized way of commenting the code.)
In 1998-9 I created a system that would automatically update the company's bug database (arguably a TODO list) whenever a developer checked in code with the proper comments inserted. It was obvious to me, and it's been obvious to thousands of developers for many years.
Sigh.
Just waiting for someone to patent the concept of Prior Art itself.
A patent is a description of an invention. It covers the WHOLE invention, and the
requirement of the patent office is that the description of the invention is very
very specific.
Microsoft's "double click" patent you all keep going on about does NOT patent
the double click. It patents differentiating between different lengths of time
holding a button on a PDA, in order to start different applications or
application methods - for the sole purpose of reducing the need for 100 buttons
on devices with crap input and no screen estate.
That they mentioned the double click does not mean they patented it. They may
have patented the use of the double click when combined with time-based
selection of the application to be launched, but that is FAR from the same
thing. And as far as I know - hasn't been done on any system anyway. Personally
I think it'd be rather unwieldy which probably explains why nobody did it
What THIS new patent covers is, and if you go PAST the f**king summary and
actually read the PATENT:
In an IDE (interactive!), adding
automatically, and in real-time, added to a task list. When comments are removed
or the task is clicked off on the GUI (and possibly in combination with revision
control) you can see what stuff has been done and has not been done. In real
time. From an IDE.
Note that manually running "grep" does not act in real time as you type, display
it in an IDE or generally do anything listed in the patent.
It does not patent TODO comments merely because of their mention. Nor is it
patenting any other COMPONENT of the patented methods. Just the methods themselves
when brought to a whole.
It was also filed in 2000. People are whining that Eclipse is prior art. Sorry,
but Eclipse came about 18 months after the patent was filed.
The next time I read a "Microsoft patents wiping ass with soft paper" story on
Slashdot, remind me to explain this again. I'm sure I'll have to, because the
amount of goddamned idiots here who can't or don't read past the headline (and
that includes you, story submitter and mr. moderator) and jump to conclusions
is incredible.
Before we get started on this whole patent argument: yeah I think Amazon's
one-click shopping thing is a bit rich. But that's different, it's a feature we
can all remember using since the dark ages when cookies first arrived, the
current batch of MS patents are actually quite original thinking from people,
and generally well thought-out well-defendable inventions.
Neko
See here...
Task List Window
Snopes has it wrong this time. They even quote him:
"I took the initiative in creating the internet".
There is no other way to interpret this. He was just trying to sound cool and it backfired on him. Note he did *not* say "I took the initiaive in allowing the internet to flourish", as snopes would have you believe, nor did he say "I created the environment in which the internet was allowed to grow". He said "I took the initiative in creating the internet".
Doxygen has had this since release 1.1.4. Here is the changelog (grep down for 1.1.4). I'm not sure when v1.1.14 was released, but v1.0 was started in 1997 I think. This should be prior art...
grep is not done within an integrated design environment.
Many IDEs allow running shell/batch scripts, and outputting the results to an in-IDE window. So yes, it could run within such an environment. In fact, I have personally used grep in such a manner (though admittedly not to look for "TODO").
Let's say I build a car from scratch. I created that car. No one in their right mind would say I invented the car or ever quote me as such.
Create is not a synonym for invent, plain and simple. This rumor, even though he is guilty of misspeaking, was deliberately put out to make him look stupid/snobish/(insert negative quality). And the saddest thing is that it worked.
Find me in ~/.sig
This granted patent came from a patent application claiming priority to a provisional patent application filed in 1999, so you need to find art prior to Mar. 5, 1999.
The full quote from the Blitzer interview is:
"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system."
He's referring to his support for the Internet and the Web in it's early days. He made sure projects got funding and encouraged the use of the 'Net in government. Here's a quote from Peter Hallam-Baker:
"In the early days of the Web, he was a believer, not after the fact when our success was already established -- he gave us help when it counted. He got us the funding to set up at MIT after we got kicked out of CERN for being too successful. He also personally saw to it that the entire federal government set up Web sites. Before the White House site went online, he would show the prototype to each agency director who came into his office. At the end he would click on the link to their agency site. If it returned 'Not Found' the said director got a powerful message that he better have a Web site before he next saw the veep."
More links about this lovely little mind virus are here:
http://www.sethf.com/gore/
Hell, I had grave doubts about Gore in the last election--so much so that I voted for Nader. But give the man his due.
Not on political, pro-Linux grounds, but because the company is starting to look a little desparate. First was this article where MS announced they were significantly lengthening support periods for older software versions. This was a dramatic reversal of its previous practice of using strong-arm tactics to force corporate customers into frequent and regular upgrades.
Then there was this article, discussing how Microsoft has begun making changes to its previously onerous licensing terms in favor of its customers.
Now we've seen two patents in recent weeks which seem to be the overly-broad type normally associated with companies who are desparate to produce licensing revenue, and not real products.
Combine this with the fact they have been forced to delay much new product development because they must finally start focusing on security, and it all adds up to clear indications of bad times coming for them. (Of course, they have plenty of cash to tide them over for quite a long period.)
Not that most of you weasels would believe it, but BillG was originally against software patents. But once they started being issued he said words to the effect of "We've got to have them or we'll be put out of business." One might add, "by litigation" from every podunk nitwit with $10k to spend playing lotto investor in the fleece Microsoft game.
So, if Microsoft patents every little thing it will do one of two things:
1) protect it from endless lawsuits by hapless dweebs;
2) get them to reform the !#@$#!@ Patent Office have them stop issuing idiotic patents which are "OBVIOUS TO THE SKILLED PRACTITIONER OF THE ART".
Gore wrote and sponsored the legislation that payed for the development for the internet. Thats what that quote means.
Religion is a gateway psychosis. -- Dave Foley
The Palm OS features a very prominent Todo list. It's been a focal point (deserving a button) for years (I think about 10 now).
Didn't the Newton have one too?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The patent is titled "Task list window for use in an integrated development environment" at the patent office. So, run your grep on other machine. Then, you will have a DISTRIBUTED, not INTEGRATED development environment. Do not show results in "window", but call it "virtual screen". Patent showing results in window, especially if you have a 30 years old prior art.
Or, use emacs. That's a platform, not IDE....
There you are, staring at me again.
"I have a porkchop, you have a porkchop. I have a veal, you have a veal".
don't slashdot users ever READ THE MOTHER FUCKING PATENT! it is NOT on a task list, it is the METHOD that is being patented.
quote:
A method, apparatus, and software are disclosed for assisting a software developer in managing tasks to be completed by providing a task list as a unified location for developers to locate errors and warnings in code, as well as specify user-defined tasks. The task list is updated in "real time" as the developer completes tasks and generates new tasks.
Marge, get me your address book, 4 beers, and my conversation hat.
Last time I checked, http://www.nat.org/dashboard/ has been doing this for a very long time.. So this patent probably isn't legal.. http://www.nat.org/dashboard/fixme.php3 thats their automatically generated todo list.. So, I guess this patent wont last long...
In accordance with Godwins Law, i hereby declare this thread over.
And the l33t shall inherit the 34r7h.
Without Al Gore's hard work to turn the ARPANET of the 80's into the Internet of the 90's none of you closet perv Republicans would be fapping to Paris Hilton. Al Gore did take the initiative to create the Internet, and a lot of us on Slashdot have him to thank for our jobs because of it. Get over it.
Gore Speech before the Senate in 1989
"But I genuinely believe that the creation of this nationwide network and the broader installation of lower capacity fiber optic cables to all parts of this country, will create an environment where work stations are common in homes and even small businesses with access to supercomputing capability being very, very widespread. It's sort of like, once the interstate highway system existed, then a college student in California who lived in North Carolina would be more likely to buy a car, drive back and forth instead of taking the bus. Once that network for supercomputing is in place, you're going to have a lot more people gaining access to the capability, developing an interest in it. That will lead to more people getting training and more purchases of machines."
September 1, 2000, Newt Gingrich, during a CSPAN broadcast
"In all fairness, it's something Gore had worked on a long time. Gore is not the Father of the Internet, but in all fairness Gore is the person who, in the Congress, most systematically worked to make sure that we got to an Internet, and the truth is--and I worked with him starting in 1978 when I got there, we were both part of a 'futures group'--the fact is, in the Clinton administration the world we had talked about in the '80s began to actually happen. You can see it in your own life, between the Internet, the computer, the cell phone."
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Dude, no one competes with IBM on patents, they have averaged more than a patent a day for as long as any currently enforceable patent has been in existance.
I think your numbers are just a *tad* off. Yes, they do a bit more than a patent per day. In fact, according to IBM, they get over 6,000 patents per year. That's over 16 every day of the year, or about 24 per business day.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
I've seen programmers littering the code with initialed comments like "FIX ME [NAME]" and running the highly complex "grep" and "find" utilities under *nix and Windows for a couple decades.
The fact that someone formatted it in a pretty dialog box is about as innovative as changing the color of your shoelaces.
The fact that anyone would apply for such a patent just demonstrates how sad and pathetic the American legal system has become as it self-destructs on a diet of lawyers and political kickbacks feeding on the very businesses that used to drive the economy. It's a shame, really. Probably no more than 10-15 years before the nation starts looking to India or Poland for handouts.
OTOH, maybe we should worry. Broke bullies with guns tend to become muggers, not beggars.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Actually that number includes all of their partners in that area.
In 2003, IBM received 3,415 U.S. patents from the USPTO. This is the eleventh consecutive year that IBM has received more U.S. patents than any other company in the world.
linky.
So not quite 6K, but more than I thought (almost 10 a day!) Their 10 year average is closer to 7 a day, and if you go back 26 years I'm sure it's even lower. Of course the rediculous number makes my point even more clear that fighting IBM in a patent battle is sheer stupidity.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Vote this weekend so that the software patent law is stopped by the EU parliament. If you're planning on not voting, go do it anyway, for this reason if nothing else.
For AutoDoc references, Google search for:
autodoc source code todo
Also I (and others) emailed Microsoft about 10 years ago, asking them to add what sounds like the patented functionality to their C++ compiler. They were keen on the idea, but eventually it wasn't high enough priority to make the cut.
No way is this a recent Microsoft invention.
- Pete Austin
I don't think so:
Meme, Counter-meme
Borland has had this feature in Delphi since at least version 5. I don't use C++ Builder but I'm sure that it has a similar feature. This whole patent thing is out of control.
Meddle thou not in the affairs of Dragons, for thou art crunchy and with most anything.
Only Microsofts most recent products have this (VS 2003 and up) and it's not as good or as reliable as the implementation in Borlands.