China Blocks Wikipedia

Lemmingue writes "China government is, again, restraining the access to internet. Ars Technica says they are now blocking the Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. How much time will it take for to Slashdot be blocked?"

Comments

Slashdot not going to be blocked

[0x0d0a]

How much time will it take for to Slashdot be blocked?

Slashdot *does* criticize Chinese policy, including information control and the like.

However, it's also extremely critical of the current US administration, which China's current administration is not a tremendous fan of.

Also, Slashdot (at least the English slashdot.org) is not in Chinese, limiting the number of people that can read it. Wikipedia is translated to Chinese.

I do agree that this sucks. Technically, China is still communist, and Wikipedia is about as fine an example of the triumph of successful communist principles (community-owned, from according to assets, to according to need) as you could ask for. Seems like a stupid idea on the part of China.

Re:Slashdot not going to be blocked

[LWATCDR]

"I do agree that this sucks. Technically, China is still communist, and Wikipedia is about as fine an example of the triumph of successful communist principles (community-owned, from according to assets, to according to need) as you could ask for. Seems like a stupid idea on the part of China." Guess what China has never been a communist country. In fact there has never been a communist country per Marx. China is a not free and seeks to control every aspect of the life of the people that live there.

Re:Slashdot not going to be blocked

[Distinguished Hero]

In fact there has never been a communist country per Marx. China is a not free and seeks to control every aspect of the life of the people that live there.

China would not necessarily have been any freer if it had been "a communist country per Marx." I think it's time that people finally accepted that the Austrian / Chicago school of economic thought is far closer to freedom than any of the garbage Marx, Engels, and Lenin were spewing. Free societies require (at least mostly) free markets; history has shown this.

Re:Slashdot not going to be blocked

[tobar mersa]

Austrian / Chicago school of economic thought is far closer to freedom than any of the garbage Marx, Engels, and Lenin were spewing

Free Markets like Singapore? or Pinochet's Chile? Or how about Revolutionary France, with guarantees to property?

I know none of these are perfect examples, but simply because a place has free markets, does not make them inherently free.

I believe many people should remember that all countries which have declared themselves to be based off of Marx and Engels have also been one-party dictatorships. Thus, even though all means of production were in the hands of the Government, since the Government was in the hands of a small cadre of party leaders, the Government, and thus the nation, could be considered to be in private ownership by this small clique, and the means of production again created what their owners told them to create, only this time without any effective means of staying out of bankruptcy due to bad management.

Of course, this completely ignores the fact that the People's Republic of China does not qualify as Communist nowadays, as they permit private ownership of the means of production (about fifty percent, iirc), and encourage Capitalism, that thing which Marx and Engels were trying to replace.

Re:Slashdot not going to be blocked

[Distinguished Hero]

I never stated that a free market guarantees complete and utter freedom; I merely stated that a free market is closer to freedom than a centrally planned economy, a claim which you did not refute. Given two hypothetical countries, both with brutally despotic rulers and the same amount of rights, with the exception of one being centrally planned, and the other possessing a free market, which country is freer?

My point was "Free societies require (at least mostly) free markets." Rebutting this statement by listing states which possessed a free market and yet were not completely and utterly free does not disprove my point; implying that I stated that societies with free markets are always free and then disproving that point it a straw man fallacy.

Furthermore, there is evidence to support the fact that free market economies eventually lead to the downfall of oppressive regimes (see East Asian Tigers excluding Singapore, etc.). Certainly you will agree that a free market economy is far less hospitable for tyrannical rulers and oppressive regimes than a centrally planned economy.

Perhaps there is a reason why all the countries which "declared themselves to be based off of Marx and Engels have also been one-party dictatorships." Sure, correlation does not imply causality, but given enough examples, perhaps one should begin doubting the divinity of communism. There are certainly enough beliefs within the dogma of communism (must be attained through a revolution, forcefully taking controll from some and giving it to others, etc.) which would be conducive to the sort of "one-party dictatorships" that have historically emerged.

Three words.

[the_other_one]

Humor, artistic license

Just another reason why...

[Read Icculus]

We need to develop tools to share and distribute information securely, anonymously, and efficiently. Government control in these matters is not in our best interests, and in the best interests of the rest of the world. Sure this sounds like your normal "information wants to be free" rant, but when the government here in the United States tries to send someone to jail on trumped up Terrorism Charges for running a website... well it's quite clear that freedom of speech and the rights I hold dear mean nothing to those in power. "Even" in the "freeset nation on earth".

Sure there's freenet and what have you, but when it comes to oppressive governments I'd rather not have anyone know I'm functioning as a freenet node and a relay for certain information.

Totalitarian societies

[Red Warrior]

can't abide free flow of information.

All governments rely on the consent (or at least aquiesence) of the governed. As soon as the majority really BELIEVE that there is something better possible, it's all over.

Re:Totalitarian societies

[Anonymous Coward]

> All governments rely on the consent (or at least aquiesence) of the governed. As soon as the majority really BELIEVE that there is something better possible, it's all over.

Depends who's holding the guns. I'm sure a great percentage of folks living in Stalinist USSR believed there had to be something better - getting that without getting killed or shipped off to Siberia, that's a different problem.

Posting on the /. won't help them either

[romanm]

This issue has been raised on wikipedia-l mailing list and there were some opinions that they should try to resolve things quietly before making headlines. Posting on the Slashdot at this point of time sure won't help anyone (OK, so people have the right to know).

Big freaking clue

[LWATCDR]

Roosevelt in a speech in January 1941 talked about the four freedoms. They have very little to do with economics. It is much more simple and human than Marx.

"In the future days which we seek to make secure, we look forward to a world founded upon four essential human freedoms.
The first is freedom of speech and expression --everywhere in the world.

The second is freedom of every person to worship God in his own way
-- everywhere in the world.

The third is freedom from want
--everywhere in the world.

The fourth is freedom from fear,
--everywhere in the world."

What a world it could be. But China is not it. It is not even close. The US is not living up to this totaly but at least a lot of people in the US know where it should be going. I get sick to my stomach when I see all the idiots on Slashdot hold up the right to download kiddie porn and swap mp3s as freedoms. There are places where you can not teach your children about God if you do beleive in God with out worrying that your door will get kicked down and no one ever see you again!
I do not care if a country is capitalist or not if they do not at least try for those four freedoms they are HELL. I know that some people belive trading with China will help it become free someday. I pray that they are right. Start with those four freedoms and then we can work on which system of ownership works the best!