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Washington Mutual Patents the Bank Branch
ewhac writes "Okay, so it's not a bank branch per se, but a particular kind of bank branch -- one that has play areas for kids, serves coffee and popcorn, and has kiosks instead of teller windows. Washington Mutual has dubbed this branch design, "Occasio" (a generic Latin word meaning, "favorable opportunity," and which has probably been trademarked). The San Francisco Chronicle reports that it may be the first time the USPTO has awarded a patent for the design of a retail store/presence."
Here, here, here, and here. Washington Mutual owns all of them.
"BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.
I can understand patenting logos, designs, even shoe tread patterns.........but furniture layout?
Ok, I'm going to file for my own patent. I'll call it "Geek Apartment" and it will consist of empty soda cans, dirty laundry, an unmade bed, and between 6 and 14 computers in various states of assembly (all running however).
There's your fair warning, soon you'll all be paying me royalties, or cleaning your apartments.
"Lame" - Galaxar
I'm actually okay with this one. At least this is a patent on something physical, something that can be built.
A retail layout is more like a device to increase sales, than a business method is.
i'd hit it so hard, if you pulled me out you'd be the king of britain [bash.org]
This kind of nonsense will just accelerate the collapse of our intellectual property system. It won't be pretty, but maybe it will actually work if we need to start from scratch.
Furniture designers and architects file copyrights on their designs all the time. Wouldn't a copyright for a particular design be more appropriate. They really didn't invent anything new ... Dentists, doctors, DIY stores and fitness centres have been doing this for ages.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
What's next?
Patenting farting in the tub for those who can't afford a real hot tub?
Sad, really.
I was hoping to one day contract an architect to design a house that perfectly suited my family's needs. It would suck to have to get a patent attorney to check for prior art on my "invention".
with an ATM machine.
KFG
This is a complete perversion of the concept of Intellectual Property. The US Consitution allows things like patents and other IP "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts". Recent patents granted by USPTO are just absurd, and do not fulfill the original intent of the Consitutional basis for IP in the US.
The box said, "Requires Windows XP or Better"...
So I installed Linux.
I;ve got mod points but rahter than mod you as an idiot, I've got to respond.
I am no fan of the USPTO, and think that some of their more recent patents have been ludicrous, but WaMu's patent is not what you are talking about. Did you even read the fucking article? (fuck acronyms)
Borders does not have a concierge (at least none of the one's I've been to). Neither does Waldenbook's, B. Dalton's, etc. Unless the register clerk counts, which they don't.
Yes, Borders has a coffee shop, but WaMu doesn't. Serving coffee and having a coffee shop where one can get a danish & coffee while reading a book, and serving coffee to someone while they wait to speak to someone else about opening up a loan isn't being copy-catting. It's called customer-service.
That, my friend, is what this patent is about. The woman who came up with this idea recognized that what really sets banks apart from one another is the level of service they provide. All banks have CD's, all banks have Money Market Accounts, but I sure as hell won't get offered coffee if I walk into a Wachovia. I might, if I walk into WaMu.
Personally, I don't like the new design. It reminds me of Starbucks -- not because of the coffee -- but because of the "chic'ness" and trendiness of the place. Plus, Starbucks reminds me of paying too damn much for a shitty cup of coffee.
Maybe that's why I bank with a credit union. I prefer to use the extra money I save each month off bank fees and increased interest in my savings accounts to brew my own damn coffee.
England had Monty Python America has the USPTO
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
I don't understand how the USPTO can give out this patent. The design of a store is typically protected by trade dress. The Supreme Court has explicity stated that you're not supposed to be able patent protection if something is normally covered by trademark law. Whomever approved this needs to be canned.
if you can patant this why can't you patent a desk layout. I'll patent the peticular setup where you have the mouse on the right of the keyboard and a monitor in the front and call it "productive arrangement A" followed by variations for multiple monitors and case locations. Then following on lessions from various software companies I won't really SELL the use of the patent..I'll lease it for a nominal monthy fee. And then if you ever take a picture of your desk I can sue you for trade secrets :D
In the UK, the Nationwide(also a mutual) already has coffee and snacks, things to keep kids occupied and anything more complicated than a simple money transfer is carried out with a customer services adviser in a relaxed setting(usually at a table)
When do we get to hear about a patent awarded for " a method of refreshing spent oxygen in the blood stream of mammals".
---- Booth was a patriot ----
...somebody suggested that the USPTO be closed because everything that can be invented has been invented. It should be closed today because it's willing to grant patents on the wheel.
No, patents are about excluding competition. While maybe it is a new thing for banks to offer such levels of service, should ANY bank have the government-enforced right to arbitrarily stop other banks doing so? That's just stupid, and you, the consumer, lose.
why the fuck should anyone have a 20-year government-enforced artificial monopoly on the production of anything?
Well obviously this is intended to encourage research by offering a reward for new ideas, and to give an incentive to companies to release trade secerts. The problem is that patents are awarded for rediculous things (like the layout of a bank). There is no benefit to humanity if 20 years everyone has access to the wonders of washington mutual bank layout. The laws need to be changed to redefine what can and should be patented.
Alternatively, the length of patent protection could be scaled to the relative worth of the patent. Give Washington Mutual half a year for their "wonderful" idea, but if for instance someone comes up with a design for an effective fusion reactor they can have 20-30 years of protection.
The alternative is that monopolies can be formed in areas where no one can replicate the technology (certainly not the bank layout industry, this is just stupid).
Washington Mutual is my bank, and I've been to one of these (in Foster City, CA). It's pretty cool. You still have to deal with tellers (at least at the one I was at) but more stuff is automated and the atmosphere is definitely better than a normal bank.
I'm a fan of things like self-service checkout at the grocery store. I figure I can usually do what I need to do faster if I do it myself. For banks, this would be great if it means that they would be open later, or on Sundays. This bankers-hours crap is annoying.
I'm filing a patent for my revolutionary "TV in the Bedroom" concept!
I mean, c'mon, the USPTO makes the majority of its money these days on providing and renewing patents. It makes nothing on investigating or refusing them.
So really, the fact that they'll patent anything under the sun should come as no real shock to anybody.
You want to fix the USPTO? Fix how they get funded.
That Jesus Christ guy is getting some terrible lag... it took him 3 days to respawn! -NJ CoolBreeze
I'm sorry, but you don't understand what patents are for.
From the USPTO Website:
One could adequately assume that the Patent Examiner saw the method by which WaMu designed their retail branch facilitated the process of the retail customer depositing money or opening a new account more efficiently, and with greater customer-service.
It's not patentable. The USPTO fucked up. Layers will make money from this. Film at 11:00. So what else is new?
I'm happy with the Washington Mutual branch here. I've never once seen "one fucking teller serving a queue of twenty people." there. There are usually two or three tellers serving a line of maybe 3 people max. The service there is actually very good. It's a very different atmosphere from most banks, which I like. And the Gameboy Advance and toys they have aren't just for kids, either, but the little chairs suck (ouch, my back).
As far as patenting it goes, I'm not sure how I feel about that, but I must admit the concept is very new and novel for banks. It's not just the arrangement of furniture, it's the whole deal.
There are greeters, tellers dressed in colorful shirts who escort customers to the kiosks, a separate cash machine, plush olive and maroon- colored chairs and sofas, and funky blueberry-colored lights hanging from the ceiling.
NSF fees have increased to $500 coming and going, and customers will be required to provide five forms of picture ID to make a deposit. Interest on our SUPER-SOCCER-SUV-VALUE-PLUS-CD accounts is now a whopping ONE PERCENT (subject to Federal, State, Local and street-by-street taxes), and you get a free book of generic-bear-on-pastel checks!
Free checking is now only $20 a week, but you get two free deposits!*
*average balance of $15,000 required
Don't forget to ask about our interest-only mortgage where we own your house until your payments quadruple! Don't forget to finance a RIDING LAWN MOWER, DUMBASS!!! MAYBE IT CAN TOW A CAMPER!!!!
"Some people walk in, and they walk out. That's why we have a concierge there."
NO!! PLEASE DON'T LEAVE!!!
Sounds like a great idea. Confuse the customers, then PATENT IT.
The strategy behind the Occasio decor is not only to make banking fun, but also to make it more efficient.
Yeah? How about hiring more than three tellers so we don't have to order out for lunch AND dinner waiting to cash a check?
Business isn't willing to pay for products, innovation and careers, so we get brands, mortgage commercials and layoffs.
The Latin word "occasio" also means 'pretext.'
What you say is true, if properly applied, for widgets or perhaps even drug trials where the profits are realisable in a business time frame.
It is not true for ideas and inventions where the profits may or may not exist and are way off in the future - i.e. those based upon scientific research or artistic endeavors. That is why we have a different model to drive basic research. Believe me, if politicians didn't believe that funding NIH was the only way to cure cancer and prolong their own lives they would not funnel billions into something that gives no campaign contributions.
The problems arise when the two models collide, as they do when we talk about intellectual property. Unfortunately what is good for encouraging better widgets can stifle creativity in science and art and that is not good for profits or humanity...
If a bank branch can be patented, maybe MacDonald's can patent fast food chain stores. If you ask me, this whole patent thing is really stupid.
You just gave three examples of complex mechanical inventions. None of them trivial. You are comparing it to an arrangement of items. Nothing new. In fact, this arrangement doesn't even really do anything.
Proof by analogy is usually flowed. Yours is flawed moreso.
"Windows"
"Apex"
"Camel"
"Gateway"
There is no shortage of "regular" words that are trademarks in certain industries.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Oops. Time to go slice my wrists :-(
"Last I checked, the USPTO didn't have jurisdiction over Canadian patents"
You're right, but, in general, prior art anywhere in the world (subject to some limitations) can prevent the grant of a patent in the U.S., event hough U.S. doesn't have "jurisdiction" over patents and art elsewhere.
"That's not even wrong..." -- Wolfgang Pauli
It just so happens that one of my web hosting customers has a very similar layout, and has had it since before August, 2000 when they registered their domain name through me.
They are a bank, and use electronic tellers (basically an electronic drive thru kiosk) for their tellers, cookies, coffee, lounge areas and toys.
The financial advisors are still at normal desks.
Having the money behind a pheumatic tube does not hurt the throughput any, and is a HUGE cost savings on insurance because there is NO MONEY a wood-be robber can grab. It's all in a locked room. Unless they have trained attack ferrets to go through the tubes... a guy with a gun is only going to get what's in the people's wallets.
The company that was pushing the kiosks came up with the ideas for the layout.
This bank is definately not the first one doing it, nor were they the first customers of the kiosk company.
So there is definately prior art...
Aside from that, the patent is stupid. Someone might make a case for an overall decor style (similar to the Aqua Mac thing, or the iMac format) but the physical placement of furniture and features of the lobby is not something that is inovative and it wasn't new when the patent was filed.
If you read the actual patent, the claims -- especially the one independent claim -- are so poorly written that you would probably need to sit down with a lawyer to figure out how to infringe this patent. The scope of the independent claim is so narrow, it would be hard NOT to design around it, if you wanted to open your own Wa-My like surroundings in your own home.
The only purpose of this patent, as far as I can see, is to show off to the investment community that "hey, we're developing IP assets, our stock should be worth more." This patent is so narrow as to be almost uninfringeable, and was probably written that way specifically because there is so much prior art out there.
While the "one-click" patent, and a lot of biotech patents, may very well be a sign that the USPTO is going crazy, this patent certainly isn't. It's worthless, so why not grant it -- the fees they pay can be used to examine some really good patents...
"That's not even wrong..." -- Wolfgang Pauli
As one of the droids that installs the servers (OS/2, yay!) and teller tower workstations (XP, locked down within an inch of its life) just let me opine that the primary advantage of the new WaMu Occasio branch design is that the money is just about nowhere to be found. You hand over your cash to the teller and it disappears into a slot just like a Reno blackjack dealer. You won't be changing your mind after that. To get your withdrawl money after your transaction with the teller, you amble over to a large vault on the floor, swipe your card, enter your pin and then the cash spits out into your hands. The tellers never have any money!
We had some clown try to stick up one of the branches here in Seattle and after he finally figured out that there just wasn't any money around to take, all he ever got was some heavy attention from the local constabulary who nabbed him down the road after he tried to hit up some other bank.
I'm guessing that the "unrobbability" is the pantentable part of all this, but I could be wrong. What do I know -- I don't explain'em, I just install'em. And from a geeks point of view, they are clean designs. And having a safe place to stash the rugrat for ten minutes ain't bad either, lemme tellya!
There used to be a tax break for being a real mutual loan association, but that disappeared under Reagan, and most of the mutuals "privatized", screwing the depositors out of their equity ownership.
"Using my plastic box to catalyse a reaction, because it is not an obvious or otherwise anticipated use, could be a non-infringing patentable process. I wouldn't be able to stop you even if I tried, because, as long as you're purchasing my boxes, you haven't infringed by making them yourself. Now, if you decided to make those same boxes yourself, you'd get nailed."
Good point about the first sale doctrine. But if we change the hypo just a bit -- say that you have the patent on the box, but refuse to make them yourself or license them, so it is a purely defensive patent -- then you would have a situation where I would get a patent that I couldn't pratice. I guess that's the point I was trying to get at.
"Even the patent attorney quoted in the article takes it (the patent) as a joke."
I noted i another post somewhere else on this topic that, in my opinion at least, the only reason for this patent at all is just to say "look mom, we're building our IP portfolio." I guess someone thought this was patentable subject matter, and not barred by prior art -- but if you look at the claim language, the patentability "window" must have been extremely narrow, as the claims are so narrow as to be virtually uninfringeable (is that a word).
"It's just not a very funny one, which just goes to show lawyers have no sense of humour."
Some lawyers have a sense of humor. It's just tough to be in a profession where a few hundred thousand bad apples ruin it for the rest of 'em.
"That's not even wrong..." -- Wolfgang Pauli
This occurred fairly close to Yankee Candle's headquarters, at a mall in Enfield, Connecticut (about an hour away). If I recall correctly, the smaller store changed its layout rather than fight it out in court, and I think it eventually went out of business, but I don't live there anymore so am not certain.
Ever since congress and the courts allowed the patenting of "business processes", things have been getting nuttier and nuttier. Business will be nothing but battling lawyers.
Table-ized A.I.
A friend of mine used to bank at Washington Mutual for a long time. One day, he strolled into the bank and saw, to his horror, that instead of a traditional bank with teller windows and whatnot, there were these retarded kiosks scattered all over the place and rotated every which way.
The outcome of this "innovative" business practice? He immediately closed his accounts and took his money to Wells Fargo, where a bank still looks like a bank.
I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of other people had similar responses to this change. This is mostly for psychological reasons: When you go to Disney Land, you want the experience to be exciting. On the other hand, when you go to the bank, where you store your financial assets that you work hard to earn, you want the place to be as unexciting as it can be. Excitement means the bank is unstable and is going to lose your money, leaving you in the streets. Lack of excitement shows stability, maturity, confidence, and security. I believe this is what most people want when they choose a bank. Not a bunch of weird kiosks turned every which way.
A play area for children isn't a bad idea, because kids always get restless and start running around, causing all kinds of noise and whatnot.
Oh yeah, and one more rant on Washington Mutual. My mother had a bank account there. One day, she deposited a bunch of checks. The bank took the money, but did not increase her accounts. No matter how much proof she produced, they refused to credit her account, claiming that what she produced was not good enough proof. In effect, the bank had stolen her money: About 300 dollars of it. She closed her accounts there and went to a different bank. Ever since that event, and more so after my friend told me about the kiosks, I have been staying as far away from Washington Mutual as I can.
Just yesterday there was a WSJ (printed version) article describing a trend where high-end tax dodge specialist are patenting particular and specific tax strategies taylored for wealthy clients!
What is good about this is that we are now entering into the ludacris stage of the current fashion of patenting everything that walks - which means reform will be close at hand - or at least I hope.
My wife's ecommerce store has a shopping cart that gives 5% discount if the customer just happens to be using a Mozilla browser. Maybe she should apply for a patent will she still can...
I know I must be hitting a few nerves when someone has to resort to implying I'm crazy rather than defend a situation. Oddly enough, my post history would seem to be that of a rational person.
I supppose I could have recently gone insane and not noticed.
I think it's more likely you're just willfully blind to the fact that America stopped being a real democracy quite some time ago. The vote is a sham to keep select people in a visible position of power, while the corp financing pretty much dictates what actually happens.
Got a stubborn senator or congressman? Just threaten to shut down that particular plant or office in their voting district, and you have approval. Presuming, of course, they didn't respond to offers of campaign contributions if they'd support a particular pet bill.
Or are you actually naive enough to think politicians are honest, or that they care about anything beyond the next election and their personal payback after they "retire" from office?
If they can help the people without risking a vote or financing, sure, it's good publicity. But when it comes down to their career or what's good for the citizens and the country, you don't matter. You are only one vote, and it's all about keeping the majority, not your particular vote.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Getting a patent for the idea of serving popcorn?
Are the movie theatres going to have to make payments to these people?
C'mon...a patent is supposed to be for inventing something serious and useful. This is not patent material by any stretch.
But since we're in the mood, let me be the first girl to patent the blow job. Yes, I invented it and it is now my intellectual property! So pay up. Credit card payments are billed to:
Christian Missionary Support Services, Inc.
This is no more absurd than putting a play pen in the corner of the store. Now, putting a play pen for senior executives who came up with this idea (or the Patent Office bozos who approved it), that would be a patentable idea.
I know I must be hitting a few nerves when someone has to resort to implying I'm crazy rather than defend a situation.
Prone to illusion of persecution, specifically.
I think it's more likely you're just willfully blind to the fact that America stopped being a real democracy quite some time ago
America never was a 'real democracy', it founded as a 'republic' or 'representative democracy'. In contrast with (what I take you to mean by) a 'real democracy', we choose representatives to act in 'our' interests. However the constituency (county, congressional district, state, etc.) being represented usually have a variety of conflicting interests. When a rep steps up to the plate on any given issue, it's going to make some people all warm and fuzzy inside and it's going to piss some people off.
Now if you're a rep trying to decide what slant to take on an issue, are you more likely to listen to some ranting dork in bubble wrap, or someone who's willing to form a Political Action Committee and put their money where their mouth is?
You are only one vote, and it's all about keeping the majority, not your particular vote.
Yeah, that's pretty much the notion of democracy. The majority wins, with certain checks to built into the system to protect the minority, such as the bicameral legislature and Electoral College. Whether those checks are insufficient or give too much power to a minority of people is another debate altogether.
The vote is a sham to keep select people in a visible position of power, while the corp financing pretty much dictates what actually happens.
Corporate interests do indeed have a lot of influence and, amazingly enough, they represent a lot of people! However, there are a lot of groups that similarly have a lot of power without being aligned with corporate America or having an enormous warchest of money (the ACLU is one example, although I believe they are more focused on working with the judicial than legislative branches of government).
Bottom line, just because the majority is against you doesn't necessarily mean that they are controlled by some dark master. It could mean, however, they are actually committed to their views and are willing to spend resources to gain support for them, rather than just bitching on a chat board.
I've been inside one of these. The tellers stand at floating mini-kiosks instead of being inside a secure area. Instead of handing you cash, they hand you a receipt with a code to type into a machine that gives you cash. The tellers all have gigantic smiles and tons of patience and understanding to help the confused customers who expected to walk into a bank. It's actually pretty funny. Turns out we walked in the back door and couldn't see the line on the other side of the mini-kiosks, so we couldn't figure out where to wait without walking around the store a bit.