Slashdot Mirror
EPA Fuel Economy Myth: Too High, Too Low?
ThosLives asks: "I have seen here on Slashdot , and just about every other publication, numerous articles about fuel cells, hybrid vehicles, and the inaccuracies of EPA fuel economy stickers. For instance, today there is a review of the Toyota Prius that had the famous line 'Since no car really achieves the EPA estimated mileage...' I happen to drive a car with an EPA sticker of 21 city 25 highway (all figures in miles per gallon). I've driven the car for 47000 miles and the lowest I've ever seen is 23 and some change; the highest, 36.3 (I'm probably about 60% highway 40% stop-and-go and yes, the high was on a long highway trip). My all-time average is about 28.5. As most people get less than the EPA mileage, how does the Slashdot readership fare when it comes to EPA sticker vs actual experience, and on what type of vehicle?"
"Am I a rare breed that can drive my car (2.0L I4, 170 HP, 6-speed manual) aggressively (I've had coworkers and friends say 'woah!' more than I'd like to admit *grin*) and still stomp the EPA sticker? Did I get lucky with a phenomenal car? Am I enough of a counter-example to thwart the belief that the EPA figures are 'too liberal'? Are fuel economy issues just FUD from [insert lobby group of choice]? Or is the answer simply 'it depends on how you drive, what you had for breakfast, and the color of your neighbors' cat?'"
It's a travesty when a 3800-pound 2004 Pontiac GTO (classed as a compact car) that gets, in reality, about 20/26 is "rated" by the EPA at 15/18, and gets a $1000 "gas guzzler" tax...while the 8000-pound Ford Excursion in the next parking spot gets fuel mileage so bad that it isn't even rated...but is eligible for medium-duty-truck tax writeoffs, and no "guzzler" tax. The whole system should be dumped in favor of vehicle choice, not artificial limits put on cars by the government.
My previous car was a '93 Ford Probe. It consistantly beat the EPA fuel mileage estimates by about 3-5 MPG My current car is an '02 Dodge Neon. It's consistantly worse than the EPA estimates by about 3-5 MPG.
Reading some of the other posts, it seems that older cars beat the EPA mileage and newer cars do not. Is it possible that the EPA changed their methods for estimating mileage?
Side note: I sure miss my '93 Probe. Sniff.
Key to financial independence: Spend less than you earn. Save and invest the difference. Do it for a long time.
I drive a 2000 Jetta TDI, and I am no light foot with it. The EPA rating for the car is 42/48 and my personal lifetime average for the car is currently at 47.1 MPG. On longer trips of predominately highway i have had mileage about around 52-53 miles per gallon, this is with cruising at 70 mph. Got to love driving a diesel car :)
While it is true that with age a cars mileage will tend to get worse due to carbon build up, what really effects your mileage is the quality of fuel that you use!! The higher the octane does not matter, but which brand most definitely does. For instance, at the risk of sounding like a corporate sponsor, Shell gas on average gives me about 30-40 more miles per tank than most gas.
My diesel 2001 Jetta TDI gets about 54 MPG for highway driving (doing 75+ MPH), and about 48 MPG in the city. It has 90,000+ miles on it, and still drives like a champ. Plus, diesel prices fluctuate less than gas does.
r g/
Before people start to complain about environmental concerns, do the research first.
http://www.tdiclub.com/
http://www.biodiesel.o
I did a lot of research when I bought, due to my long commutes (150+ miles/day), and I save, on average, between $250 - $300 per month, which essentially paid for the monthly payments.
Great car. They also have Diesel Golf, Beetle, and Passat models, if the Jetta doesn't float your boat. Worried about not being able to find diesel? When my low fuel light comes on, I still have a 2 gallon reserve, or about 80 miles in the city, but in reality, it's not that difficult to find diesel.
They're definitely worth checking out. I plan on being able to keep the car for a number of years, as the engines last forever. Sorry to sound like a diesel advocate, but it's a great, comfortable car.
There's an interesting statistic on hybridcars.com about how making minimal improvements on gas milage can vastly affect our foreign oil dependency. The jist of it is that if we could improve the average gas milage of the US by one mile per gallon, we wouldn't have to drill in the arctic reserve. If we improced average gas milage by 8 miles per gallon, we wouldn't need to import oil from the middle east at all. So even though we may not be getting sticker values for milage on hybrids, they still kick ass compared to most sedans and such, and espically SUV's and the Hummer with its 8 miles per gallon. Bottom line, even though you aren't getting super phenomenal milage, you're still getting awesome milage, which is good in a variety of ways.
http://www.hybridcars.com/oil.html
You also forget the death of the Station Wagon. It is the loss of this vehicle class (primarily due to fuel economy regulations) that has pushed SUVs into the mainstream. If you have more than a couple of kids, you need to have a larger vehicle and an SUV is now the only choice you have, unless you buy a bus.
The station wagon was a standard staple of middle America for many years, and helped haul millions of children to football and baseball practice. If a car company wants to sell them in America, they are forced by regulations to sell several cheap cars (like the Geo Metro). SUVs don't have this same restriction. Mini Vans also help cover some of this, but even a Mini Van doesn't deal with everything you could haul in an old fashion station wagon. That's why I drive an SUV right now.
Get off it.
Speed limits were designed way back when you could reduce your gas intake by slipstreaming off your buddy (the guy in front of you). Same idea as geese flying in formation (reduces drag).
Nowadays, speed limits serve a different purpose: adding money to the state's coffers (in the name of education, social security, etc.). A friend of mine works with the cops (state & local), and yes, they do have quotas. Twice a month, cops are everywhere, then they disappear for a few weeks.
I do not condone doing 90MPH+ in a population center (i.e. center city Philly), but once you're out on the highway or the backroads, let loose. If your car has the speed and breaking distance, you have nothing to fear.
As an aside, under all circumstances, I obey the yellow speed signs (speed limits or otherwise). They actually serve a purpose (if a sign says 15 MPH, you bet that I'm going to abide by it).
I'd like to see the cops chase after those who impede traffic (30MPH in a 45MPH zone). Course, we can't have that in PA, as it would offend all those older voters (I think they outnumber everyone else). Grannies, wearing coke-bottle glasses, out driving their Buicks. Left-blinker, for 2 1/2 freaking miles.
I am John Hurt.
What you have to ask yourself, is why the govenrment are litterally pushing people to buy SUV's. Easy enough to try and build up the plausability for expending living people to protect, not oil (as how can you class it as protecting, when you are taking it?) but the interests of the oil companies.
I think an invenstigation needs to go underway, it is, or should be, illegal for this kind of law to be put in place.
I am shocked that this hasn't been a source of massive outcry, and protest, but hey, you don't want to be anti-patriotic.
Thanks for posting this, the fact that it hasn't been modded up, and the only AC reply is you are jealous of car sizes, shows what kind of a sick and twisted world this is!
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
and espically SUV's and the Hummer with its 8 miles per gallon.
Which is extremely scary. I have a Class C motorhome with an engine that make's the hummer's look like a economy-car engine. It's a Ford 460 gasoline engine with a Holly 4bbl big-bore carb on the top of it. I pull a 30 foot camper body that is over 10 feet tall and have 2 extra tires hitting the pavement. and I get BETTER gas mileage than the hummer.
There is something really wrong where a vehicle that is 4 times the size and more than twice the engine AND using older non fuel injected fuel technology that is significantly less efficient than the new and supposedly high-tech Hummer.
What are they doing so wrong on the hummer?
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I will tell you like I tell everyone else:
.00406 of their BRING HOME income. (less than 1/2 of 1%). This is trivial. * Even someone making 1/3 of that amount, $33,000 would see a 1% increase (lower taxes), which is almost trivial. And its still cheaper than buying a new car that gets better mileage, by a long shot.
;) If $325 a year is going to make or break you, you need a better job, NOT a better car.
I wish gas prices were lower, but if prices were $5 a gallon, it would not affect my driving habits. I know lots of people who complain about gas prices, gas mileage, etc. but the majority of the complainers I know make more than $100k a year and still drive cars that get less than 20mpg. I finally showed the boss the math, and he quit bitching about it.
A vivid example: 50 miles per day at 20mpg = 2.5 gallons per day x 20 days a month (1000 miles typical) = 50 gallons per month. The price difference of $1.50 and $2.00 comes to $25 per month. For someone making $100k a year, this difference represents a grand total of
Most of the users on slashdot spend more than this on porn.
*(Based on income of $100k, tax of $20,000, [typical] 52 weeks / 4 = 13 cycles x $25 per cycle = $325 yearly / $80,000 bring home = 0.0040625)
Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
Gas prices havn't personally effected me, but I know it increases the cost of shipping items, and other services where gas is often used. These prices are passed onto you in higher cost for other goods, our economy is definatly effected by gas prices. So don't assume a gas price only effects you at the pump.