Slashdot Mirror
Night Goggles Capture Spider-Man Movie Bootlegger
linuxwrangler writes "According to SFGate.com/AP, a teen has been arrested for attempting to bootleg the Spider-Man 2 movie, after a projectionist using night-vision goggles spotted him. The teen was escorted from the theater by security guards and turned over to police. This may be the first arrest stemming from the use of NV goggles that were previously mentioned on Slashdot."
Telesyncs or telecines... no one bothers with cams anymore. Where is the "enforcement" there?!
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
If he were smart enough, he'd be doing projection work instead of holding the camera
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
I would think that at this point, most of the movies that get distributed via BitTorrent, P2P etc. are not captured by a lone guy sitting in a packed theater.
I mean, say your buddy is the guy who sets up the movie in the theater, and sits there while it runs. You make nice with him, and he allows you to film the movie in relative security, rather than you sitting in audience, waiting to get busted by your neighbor or wandering security guys.
From my experience, anyway, it doesn't take much to convince a guy working a menial job like that to do something that may jeopardize his employment. Yeah, it's a broad generalization, but hey, it's consistent.
"The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it." - G.B. Shaw
Its the deterent. Now that people can and will be caught it'll make people think twice. And what if the 16 year old gets a harsh punishment? You think you'll enter a theatre again to pirate a movie you already paid to see so some stranger can see a crapy copy for free?
this may deter other people from bootlegging it as well, which is the purpose of most laws deterrence.
As much as we may dislike some of the tatics they may be trying to use and as much we are trying to protect our rights to copy legitimately the stuff we paid for copying a movie in a theater with a cam corder is not one of them.
It's sad that cops out trying to stop murders don't have night vision goggles, but the movie copyright "infringement prevention squad" has them.
Murder? Oh that's fine, go ahead please.
COPYING A MOVIE!!!!!??!?!?! OFF TO JAIL WITH YOU.
What a great society we live in.
My other car is first.
"Hundreds of people have put tens of thousands of hours into making a truly great picture, and the notion of having it stolen and sent out for free around the world is just plain wrong," said Jeff Blake, vice chairman of Sony Pictures Entertainment. where did our legal system go? what happened to "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law"? they didn't catch him selling it or offering it online, that's slander.
This is exactly what we've been saying is necessary. Instead of mandating spyware on all of our computers or forcing ISP to pay royalties for potential copyright infringement, they're actually trying to stop it at the source.
The penalties may be a bit harsh, but that's better that than curtailing the rest of our freedoms.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
"Camcorders account for 92 percent of all illegal copies of films that appear for sale over the Internet and are sold on street corners from Burbank to Beijing, according to the MPAA."
Oh please. I've bought and downloaded many 'illegal copies' in my time, and that percentage is ridiculously high. You'd have to be nuts to buy a camcorder movie, when the 'direct copy of the dvd sent out as promo' version is available.
They surely realise that any 'for sale' pirate version of the film came from an inside source, and this quote in the article is pure FUD.
Where does law come from? Is it god given? Is it perfect? unquestionable?
Remember that witches BROKE THE LAW by beeing witches.
Gallileo BROKE THE LAW asserting the world isn't flat.
Some centries ago any black guy BROKE THE LAW asserting he isn't an inferior beeing.
America BROKE THE LAW by declaring independency to britain.
Do you think all of them should be man enough to face the penalities? justified? THE LAW is unquestionable?
--
Karma 50, and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt.
You know, normally I'm as anti-RIAA/MPAA as the next slashdotter. But you're just insane! All of your arguments can be applied against you in the same manner.
Is it your god-given right to receive free entertainment, at the cost of the filmmakers?
If not, then don't you think there's a good reason for this law to exist: to deter people who would steal copies of the filmmakers' films?
If not, then at least won't you recognize that every CAM-copy distributed on the internet is no better than sneaking in the back door of the theater? If these punks had been caught doing that, shouldn't they be subject to arrest under the law? Maybe the penalties for that would be a little lighter, but if you think about it from the perspective of the theater owners and filmmakers, a single CAM copy is worth thousands of back-door pilchers.
Stealing something because you don't agree with the law is no defense. No-one is accusing this thief of being a witch, or declaring the world is round, or being black. He was caught with a camcorder, filming a movie.
Who the hell wants some crappy camcorder-made copy of a movie, anyways? I'll bet you only fans of the movie. People that buy that crap are only doing so to have a copy until the DVD is released. If they released DVDs and movies at the same time, there wouldn't be this problem. Or, at least we'd know his customers meant to infringe upon the copyright holders.
Also, once again, copyright infringement is NOT stealing. Nobody is deprived of property. That doesn't mean it's not a bad thing, but your comparing it to rape is incredibly extreme.
Or would you not mind if I broke into your house, raped your wife/partner, took your tv and computer and set fire to the place on the way out? Surely if I don't see anything wrong with those actions I shouldn't be charged with any crimes?
I love these strawmen arguments. NOT THE SAME THING. There is no physical damage or loss here. Now, if you said "would you not mind if I paid to get into your house and have a conversation with you and your wife, then left, whilst secretly taping it all" that would be closer analogy. Kinda creepy, but not illegal in many jurisdictions. And of course it doesn't sound like something to get all upset about, calling for people's heads on pikes, etc.
Just like the music industry's argument of "You can't go onto a car lot and steal a car, so why 'steal' music?". No. But if you were able to borrow a friend's car for a minute (like you borrow their CD to rip it), and use a machine to make a perfect replica of the car, I bet your friend wouldn't give a crap, and neither would anyone else.
As the movie companies are paying for enforcing the law in this case yes, thats fine.
As you obviously care about this so much, why dont you present the cops with a box of Night vision goggles. I'm sure they would be very greatful.
The cops are underfunded. They always are. Yes, the cops should be able to buy things like this, but in real life if they wanted things like that they would have to get private individuals to pay for it because there isnt the budget.
BTW, here is an update on the Law. Murder is *not* ok and the cops try to find murderers to the best of their ability and resources. It just happens to be easier to catch someone with a camcorder in a movie theitre, because you have a good idea on where to start looking for them.
Grow up. This boy was a criminal. He is too young to go to jail in the US, more's the pity. He was just unlucky enough to get caught.
Out of interest, exactly how would night vision goggles help the police to find murderers? indeed The only use for night vision goggles i can think of is while chasing someone down a very dark alley of some kind, during which, For them to be useful, the perp involved would also be blind without them.
No one is breaking in; one must pay to enter a cinema theatre. If you want to come into my house, pay me for that, and make a copy of my TV, then you are welcome.
For once and for all: (illegal) COPYING IS NOT STEALING
To go with your parent:
Whitches aided the devil in stealing souls.
Galileo wanted to steal faith from 'true believers'.
'Blacks' wanted to steal the 'obvious superiority' away from the 'whites'.
Americans wanted to steal about half of the British Empire.
All bullshit. Do NOT follow the newspeak and misuse of the word 'stealing' when something else is meant.
Wenn ist das Nunstueck git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.
Oh yes, that's very insightful: comparing rape, burglary, and arsen to copyright infringement. That's some of the most pitiful comment moderation I've seen in some time.
Sure: you can fall on either side of the copyright debate, but if you think copyright related crimes, especially ones where nobody profits from the crime and the only loss is a theoretical and arguable one at best, are in the same ballpark as the other examples you gave... well... you need to get out more often.
And this is coming from an artist who has been (on rare occasion) paid for my work.
Cheers.
There is no physical damage or loss here
Almost got it right! There is loss. Loss in seeing the value of the movie being diluted because some cretin put it on the internet for free.
Same thing as when the American Government prints some more green ones. You still have the same amount of dollars int your bank account, but every one of these dollars is now worth a little less.
You didn't loose, but you end up being a little less rich. Oh wait, that's the definition of loosing.
Write boring code, not shiny code!
No one is breaking in; one must pay to enter a cinema theatre. If you want to come into my house, pay me for that, and make a copy of my TV, then you are welcome.
For once and for all: (illegal) COPYING IS NOT STEALING
<Sigh>
*I* am only replying to the deluded parent who seems to think that a law prohibiting the use of recording instruments in a cinema is as bad as a law outlawing witchcraft, or removing the rights of coloured people. I chose an extreme example to show how flawed those arguments can be.
In a nutshell - the kid broke the law, get over it. Is the law a good law or a bad one? I'm opting for the good law side of the equation. Is "theft" involved? Beats the fuck out of me, but the little shit shouldn't have been doing what he was doing and should have known better.
Simple enough.
:-)
If you argue that making copies of music or movies shouldn't be illegal, why not do a "shareware" entertainment industry. You go, see the movie and if you like it, pay the theater on the way out. Same with the popcorn. I hate the prepopped popcorn that is delivered and reheated. Tastes like styrofoam. If it's that popcorn, don't pay after getting it.
Ahh, but on the flip side, you are paid the same way for your work. The manager authorized payment only if you are doing the work you're supposed to be doing. Reading Slashdot? No pay for that time. On IM, no pay for that time (or reduced pay).
Wait wait. The network is working great. No problems in the past week. Hey, you haven't done any recovery work so you don't get that extra $1000 that week. The network crashed and you fixed it. Great, here's $1000 but minus $200 because it crashed.
Man, a shareware economy. Wouldn't that be great?
Shit better not happen!
As the movie companies are paying for enforcing the law in this case yes, thats fine.
Ooooh. This just sits wrong with me. It's a case of the rich being able to afford to have laws upheld. Been raped and want the criminal brought to justice? Throw money at the system and it shall be done. Want a murderer to be brought to justice? If you're rich it will happen, if you're poor no-one cares.
I don't mean to single you out, because everybody is making the same assumption here. But where in the article is it established that this kid was planning on ripping and uploading? So far as I know, it hasn't yet been established that he was anything other than a Spidy-fan who wanted his own personal copy of the movie.
Sound dumb? At 16, I'd done dumber. Probably you, too, if you would care to admit it. There are still plenty of teens these days who have handicams and a love for Spidey, but no idea at all how to move an image from a videocam onto the Internet.
Until we know better what this kid was up to, it may be a little early to call for this 16-year-old's blood.
I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
The movie is being filmed. It is not yet being distributed. It is potential loss at that point, not real loss.
Most obvious example: Phone conversations cannot be tapped without a court order because people have a reasonable assumption of privacy.
Which is one of the privacy guidelines established by the Supreme Court in determining government encroachments of your privacy. And with your specific example, there are also guiding wiretap laws.
However your privacy "rights" where it regards interaction with other private citizens are not nearly so developed. For instance, with very little reason, your employers can monitor your email, search your company-supplied desk drawers, etc. If you let me in your house, I'm not aware of any law that would prevent me from ruffling through your filing cabinet.
Now granted, there are some related restrictions. For example if I found your credit card number in one of those cabinets I couldn't go billing things to your card--but that's credit card fraud, not an issue of privacy. If I broke into your house to search, that's breaking and entering, not really an issue of privacy. (Breaking and entering laws might exist in part to protect our privacy, but breaking and entering is illegal because state legislatures say so.) Little by little, legislatures and courts are beginning to more narrowly define privacy rights with regards to interactions with other people (especially employer/employee relationships), but it is by no means as established as when the government may or may not tap your phones.
The grandparent's post, in its proper context, remains largely accurate; I have no idea how you got onto wiretaps. We're not talking about the government here, we're talking about movie theater people with NV goggles searching out movie pirates. Not only do I see absolutely no way it matters whether you expect they're doing that or not, but while we could argue all day about whether or not it is right, good for business or even effective, I see it as the fundamental right of theater owners to protect their revenues by stopping pirates. If they choose to use NV goggles to help them do so, that's their business.
In short, you were way too quick to try and pounce.
Dateline nowish
Courageous anti terror law officials late last night breached a murky downtown theatre filled with potential criminals. Acting on a tip submitted by a courageous patriot our brave heroes bravely bested the bandit. Using stunguns and gas grenades the 16 year old felon (and suspected murder) was wrestled to the ground and wearing straight jacket, handcuffs and leg irons was dragged of to prison. In an impromptu press conference at the Dorothy Chandler pavilion Vice Chairman of Sleazy Pictures Entertainment, Joff Blackhole spoke to the thousands of gathered stars of screen and stage and said this was a great day for justice, truth and honor everywhere in the universe, when a sick twisted disgusting criminal like this could be brought to justice like this. A tearstricken Vice Chairman thanked his parents and his wife.
In other news, 20 American Soldiers were killed by terrorist in Baghdad officials haven't got any leads.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
And really, people need to get some god damn education and perspective that use it. I get really pissed when I hear someone saying "Good, if they punish them harshly, it'll deter other peopel form doing it." Ok, fine, then why don't we make ALL punishments harsh? I mean if we want deterrence, why do we half-ass it.
Let's take speed traps. What a joke right now. One cop sits there, finds a speeder, pulls them over, and writes them a $50 ticket while others continue to speed. That's not hars. So let's make a harsh deterrent. Let's have cops with M2s (.50 cal machine guns) and radar guns. You speed, they anihilate you and your car. Now THAT'S deterrence.
But it's ok, right? I mean those people that get killed broke the law, they should have known better. The harsh punishment will make people think twice before speeding. Fuck justice, we want DETERRENCE!
This is an extreme example, but does well to illustrate what you advocate. Harsh punishments for near harmless crimes are not just. In the US, we not only have a sense that the punishment should fit the crime, it's law, the highest law of the land (US Constituion, Ammendment 8).
In this case you have a kid, who paid to see a movie, that is making a video tape. You have NO proof of intent to distribute or anything else. So you have someone, that already paid to see it, that is making a copy. Show me the harm in that. Even if he does distribute it, empirical studies have shown that, indeed, internet copying doesn't have the huge economic impact the media industry wants to claim.
So you have someone that is comitting a non-violent crime, with no apparent profit motive, and no intent to distribute (at least not that you can infer from the article) and you want a HARSH punishment?
Look, if you really believe in justice like that, you really should consider moving to a country like Sinagpore, where they have a police state and minor crimes are punished harshly. However here in the US, that's not how things are supposed to be done. It's not just idealism, it is Constitution law. That overrides all other law, federal, state and local. It is the guiding framework to which all our laws must adhere.
So if you really do believe in screwing people who commit minor offences, then you probably shouldn't live here.
I do not normally engage in this kind of obvious flame war but I thought that I would address some of your concerns so you can stop your self-induced hysteria about the law.
In the examples you pointed out above (Galileo, witches, etc), indeed the LAW seemed poorly suited or established.
What is at the heart of your concerns is known as the legitimacy question - from where does the legitimacy to enforce law come?
For example, what is the difference between a police officer and a gun? Both can compel us - at threat of death - to do an action but yet we insist that the police officer is legitimate.
The answer to this question depends on the government. For most of the middle ages and, in fact, right until WWI and WWII, the sovereigns of Europe and most of the world insisted that they ruled by divine mandate. The will of the King was law because the King was a god appointee. (This is the view of the Saudi royal family).
What is interesting about this is that the King is outside the law - he can break any orders, he cannot be reviewed, he can even be cruel for no reason.
Hitler answered the legitimacy question in terms of biology - German Aryans were the obvious biological vehicles of power and thus derived their right to rule over the lesser people by virtue of superior "race."
The American constitution answered the question by saying that the people are the sovereign. This means that every man - including the President - is bound by the law, that the law ought to be blind and equally open to all, and that the burden ought to usually be on the government (hence "innocent until proven guilty," "proof beyon a reasonable doubt," etc).
The ultimate arbiter of American government legitimacy is the people, at this level most specifically vested by form of a jury. Your fate is decided - not by God, nor the state, nor a judge - but by a group of random citizens like yourself who can understand and be swayed by your situation.
This is forever enshrined in American law by the 7th Amendment, which, along with the First, is probably our strongest safeguard against tyranny. (This is, in fact, the principle upheld by the Supreme Court in its recent "detainee" decisions).
Thus, if in self defense you were to kill a man who threatened your child with a knife, a jury might very well be able to put themselves in your shoes and say "given the same situation I would react similarly" and acquit you, even though you had murdered a person.
A conviction by a jury carries with it the assumption that you are punished by society and members of society who say that you broke the societal norm and did not, in fact, act the way they would in the same situation.
This is the reason that higher courts are loathe to overturn jury convictions. That only happens when there is absolutely incontrovertible proof of innocence (with never really existed to that level prior to DNA) or a gross miscarriage of justice (for example the jury trials in the South where no white man would fear being convicted of a lynching or similar horrid act).
In America the government is not a man with a gun but random people who decide how reasonnable you were in taking your action.
Back to the question - did this kid break the law? Well, he has his day in court to argue his side but, on a prima facie decision that he did perform all of the allegations, then he did break the law.
As you can see from the comments any group of 12 is likely to convict him because his behaviour was unreasonnable and outside the societal norm. He deserves to be be punished - he ought to be punished - precisely because he violated our laws and mores and this is not then some witch hunt of injustice unleashed upon an innocent bystander. He is legitimately punished by the government - the people - for breaking the law.
What you can see here is that, in America, the law isn't what is on the books because a jury can acquit. The law is a hyrbid of the written law, the legal
How's that read GPL again? I agree that I can do whatever I want with GPL code, but if I want to distribute it I have to share my changes. If I break it there'd be Slashdotters calling for my nads on a stick.
The agreement with the movie theaters is "I agree that I can come in and sit quietly and watch the movie. No, I can't record it. No, I can't sit in the back and sing the Spider Man cartoon theme at the top of my lungs. No, I can't piss on the people in the next row." Simply put, you're not allowed to disrupt their business. Yes, recording and distributing it before it leaves theaters disrupts their business, don't kid yourself. If you don't like it, DON'T GO TO THE THEATER. How difficult is this concept?
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." Col. Jeff Cooper
You... used the phrase 'rather than' in place of 'and also'.
I am NOT a number! I am a - oh wait, I'm number 761710. Look! 761710!
At some F911 showings in rightwing areas, they have cops in the theater, supposedly to quell possible disturbances but in reality apparently just to intimidate people.
Hmm...you have any evidence to back that up? Maybe there's actual reason to fear far-left extremism and hyperbole that is thrown out by Michael Moore (I admit, his movies are entertaining...unfortunately they are chocked full of lies). You know, anti-capitalists have this thing about rioting (see: Seattle G8 summit) to prove that they are peace-loving, bleeding-heart individuals.
I think it's rather funny that because someone sees a police officer in a theatre in a conservative area you assume that it is for intimidation. Perhaps you should collaborate with Moore on his next film, since you guys seem to do the same level of research before spouting off something as fact.
BTW: I'm not a fan of Bush...in fact...I can't stand him. However, left-wing nuts must be pointed out along with the right-wingers....
Peace.
That's an excellent idea to protect the consumers from those low-quality divx encoded from a recorded movie. Soon, thanks to the MPAA, only excellent digital versions stolen directly in the studio will spread around. No more desappointing downloads!
Those guys have solved what I was personnaly considering as the only remaining weakness of p2p. Good.
--
Go Debian!
Is it your god-given right to receive free entertainment, at the cost of the filmmakers?
Separate the two questions and we can have a reasonable discussion. Whether works of art should be free is a different question from whether one has a right to compel others to create and distribute those works. As it is you are committing the logical fallacy "many questions", it seems. (Those more familiar with analyzing arguments for fallacious reasoning, please correct my analysis.)
don't you think there's a good reason for this law to exist: to deter people who would steal copies of the filmmakers' films?
Another logical fallacy: vagueness of language. Here you are using the word "steal" when you really mean "make", I believe. The copies are not being stolen. No one is sneaking into the projector booth and running off with reels of film (although that does happen, that's not-- I assume-- really what you mean here). The copies are being made. And it's a very important distinction. In the case of "stolen" a single piece of real property is being taken from someone. In the case of "copied" raw materials legitimately belonging to the copier are being used to reproduce another work.
won't you recognize that every CAM-copy distributed on the internet is no better than sneaking in the back door of the theater? If these punks had been caught doing that, shouldn't they be subject to arrest under the law?
No, I won't. Further it seems to me that in the drive to eliminate copying, the punishments for copying have been made more severe than if one actually stole the money or shoplifted "legitimate" copies of the movie directly, especially when one considers how many of one's own resources one must devote to the copying process.
I do not have a signature
The MPAA is screaming poverty, yet they are outfitting movie theaters with night-vision goggles? Something is very wrong with that picture. Don't they know most pirating is an inside job? Where do they think the screener rips come from? Or the ones where someone scans the film, and rips the sound digitally? Certainly not Joe Moviegoer. In all those trailers where the workers of the movie industry ask us not to pirate (which is before a movie to which you just bought a $10 ticket), I try to spot who the real pirates are. I already paid to get in the movie, you don't have to tell me not to pirate. That would be like telling a Nun to be celibate.
I hate sigs.
Hundreds of people have already been compensated for the hours they worked on that film. The owners of the IP contained in the film, however, have invested a great deal of money. Reducing the number of people who will pay to see the film reduces the value of their investment. You can argue whether or not you feel bad for a corporation who has invested a hundred million in a film not realizing the maximum potential profit, but don't even think about making this about whether or not the set caterer or one of the special effects computer administrators has been "wronged" by this kid.
I DO think what he did was wrong. He should be fined - probably a nominal amount. Maybe a few hours community service if he's a rich kid, since mommy and daddy probably lose $2500 in their couch cushions on a bad day. If I was still in CA, though, I sure as heck wouldn't want to pay my tax $ to put this prick in jail.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Speed traps are not about "stopping speeding". They are about "revenue enhancement". Harsh enough penalties as to make people stop speeding would be counterproductive to the true objective - to make some extra money for the agency writing the tickets.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Perhaps they can start working on ejecting people who talk during the movie. Other moviegoers inability to have respect for other people is the main reason I don't go to the movies any more. Or if I do, I try to do it on a weekday, late at night.
Is there some reason someone couldnt simply use an IR filter (a hot mirror filter) on the camera to prevent most of the problem generated by an IR flood?
Not that I'm saying that movie companies arent just trying to create public fear by making a few loud examples.
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Traffic fines -- whether from speed traps, parking tickets, or red-light cameras -- are "stealth" taxes, pure and simple. States and municipalites COUNT on that cash flow for routine operations.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
C'mon, renege on the $500 bonus?
You forget, these are the same people who claimed that they lost money on Forrest Gump, so they wouldn't have to pay Winston Groom, who wrote it (or at least the book on which it was based) the profit-based percentage he was owed.
In light of that, I fail to see how you expect them to be honest with minimum-wage theater workers who won't be able to afford legal recourse if they get stiffed. Sure, $500 is less than a percentage of millions, but these are some greedy motherfuckers we're talking about here-- no dollar amount is too small to weasel out of paying.
~Philly
If I recall, Stand Lee was suing Marvel and Sony because he wasn't getting the royalties he was promised (under contract) on the X-Men and Spiderman movies and associated spin-offs from the movies.
Isn't it ironic that the same movie studios that are lobbying politicians to combat piracy with tougher laws are the same studios that are reluctant to pay royalties owed to the real creators of the intellectual property? If you're going ask politicians to enforce the law, you should follow it as well.
You have seen too many Chuck Norris films and too little of real life.
Torture ALWAYS works. Always. Every single time. Because torture is a really terrifying affair, and having seen it on film does not make you an expert.
I have met and interviewed torture victims. There's nothing glamorous about it, and I really wish you didn't trivialize it so.
Once someone is broken down too far, they'll agree with anything and even make up detailed stories which support what the interrorgator wants to hear. It's a survival instinct. If I think you'll stop hurting me if I tell you the sky is green, it's entirely likely I'll eventually beleive the sky is green and tell you so. Breaking down someone's sense of ethics/responsibility/community is hard, and it's a short step to breaking down their sense of reality.
So yeah, it works, in that the victim will tell you anything. But the victim has to be in a mental state to actually know the right answer, and therein lies the problem.
Of course, in a lot of instances, the goal of torture is simply torture, so the information is moot. Wonderful world, eh?