Seagate Accuses Cornice of Patent Infringement

dncsky1530 writes "Seagate's recently filed a patent infringement lawsuit in the U.S. District Court for the District of Delaware against Cornice of Longmont, Colo. Now it is seeking an order from the U.S. International Trade Commission to exclude Cornice disk drives and any systems or products using or containing Cornice disc drives from entry into the United States. Seagate asserts that Cornice is infringing on seven of its U.S. patents that relate to several areas of disk drive technology."

Comments

if you can't innovate then litigate

[Anonymous Coward]

seems to be the American way of doing buisness thesedays, at what point will we all stand around too frightened to develop anything for fear of being sued by a team of lawyers ?
simply developers will end up forgetting about the US market and concentrate on other countries like China or India, perhaps USA's patent/litigate buisness model is just the beginning of its end

cheers

A>S

Re:if you can't innovate then litigate

[LostCluster]

If your competitor didn't innovate but instead stole your innovation while you still have patent protection, you have to litigate. Otherwise, your competitor makes profits that rightfully belong to you.

Re:if you can't innovate then litigate

[dasmegabyte]

There is no "right" to profits. There is, however, a right to protect your research. If you invent something and patent it, you have the right to demand licensing fees from anybody else who uses that thing -- even if they didn't reverse engineer your product to figure it out. This "first come, first served" patent system is designed to encourage research, as opposed to sitting around waiting for an idea to be invented for you.

Western Digital too

[Thiago Ize]

Sounds like Cornice really is thieving -- Western Digital has also filed patent infringement charges against them. This is one case where I'm actually FOR filing suit.

I feel dirty saying that here...

Re: Western Digital too

[randyest]

Why should you feel dirty for thinking properly and lauding the use of patents in the way they were intended to be used? It's ok to stray away from the herd, you know, especially if the other sheep are being dumb and blindly following the blind sheep at the front of the pack.

Which happens sometimes here on /. of course. But I expect to see mostly posts like yours -- this suit is wholly warranted, Cornice is stealing, patents can and should be used to protect against this sort of thing.

I think most of us realize that inane blanket statements like "patents are bad, mmkay?" are useless and silly. In this case, patents are good. Even if some of the patents are teh 3vil "software patents" related to algorithms in the firmware or some such (I don't know, neither the linked info nor Seagate's website give any details.)

Or maybe you were just joking. If so, I apologize for my lack of a sense of humor -- it's early and I was out late :)

Re: Western Digital too

[gnuman99]

Maybe someone should post *what* patents they are infringing? Are these the "my disk is round" type of patents or something else?

Re: Western Digital too

[paul248]

Sounds like Cornice really is thieving.

*ahem* It's not thieving, it's patent infringement.

Re: Western Digital too

[Omnifarious]

Actually, while I suspect I would think suit was justified and proper in this case, I think the patent system as a whole is completely broken and needs a major overhaul and partial replacement.

Given that, it makes me nervous to find myself supporting any litigation involving patents.

Also, they are not thieving, they are violating patents. They aren't taking anything from anyone. They are violating a societal restriction of the natural right to copy ideas that we all have (supposedly) agreed to. That is not thievery, it is patent violation. Applying the word 'thievery' implies the erroneous premise that ideas have owners.

..and I'll bet these patents...

[Anonymous Coward]

...are something like:

Patent One:

1) Method of storage digital data in a round magnetic medium

2) Method of spinning magnetic medium

3) Method of writing to round spinning magnetic medium

4) Method of reading from round spinning magnetic medium

5) Method of using round magnetic medium, reading and writing so that it can be put in a small box with electrical connectors

6) Method of taking small box containing magnetic medium that can be read and written, using electrical connectors to attach to Electronic Data Processing Machine

7) Method of taking small box containing magnetic medium that can be read and written, using electrical connects and drilling 4 holes in it so you can use a screwdrive to attach to said EDP machine.

8) Amen.

Damn Cornice

[Pedrito]

They had to go and make the platters round. Didn't they know Seagate had a patent on round flat things with a hole in the center? Man, if it wasn't for Dunkin Donuts, they would have gotten that patent on ring-torus shaped things as well. And what would the police have to do if that had happened?

Why exclude?

[Anonymous Coward]

Now it is seeking an order from the U.S. International Trade Commission to exclude Cornice disk drives and any systems or products using or containing Cornice disc drives from entry into the United States.

If Seagate is truly out to protect their revenue (which is the intention of patents), they should have no problem letting Cornice continue to sell their wares... If Cornice is really infringing on the patents, they will eventually have to pay licensing fees to Seagate, so the more they sell the more Seagate will benefit. And if there is no infringement, then there is no point in stopping their sales.

This is where the US patent system is fucked up. Any patent-holder should be forced to allow others to use the technology by paying a reasonable licensing fee. Entities should never be able to use patents as a way of stopping competitors from making sales. Yet the latter has become the US way of doing business. Sad.

-hadohk

Re:Why exclude?

[javaaddikt]

It is bad because you're allowing the infringing company to gain market share and brand recognition by selling products with patented feature x. Then they gain credibility, remove feature x or alter it slightly for compliance, and and enjoy solid sales with no license fees.

Re:Why exclude?

[Macadamizer]

"If Cornice is really infringing on the patents, they will eventually have to pay licensing fees to Seagate, so the more they sell the more Seagate will benefit."

And how do you determine whether Cornice is "really infringing?"

You got to go to court.

Cornice isn't going to pay licensing fees to Seagate because they realize they are "really infringing" or because Seagate "feels" they are infringing -- they will pay licensing fees when they either get dragged into a lawsuit and decide that it's not worth a fight, or fight it and lose.

"so the more they sell the more Seagate will benefit"

One other thing -- if Seagate believes that Cornice is infringing, they are not allowed to let Cornice "rack up" licensing fees -- if they wait too long, they may lose their right to some or all of their rightful fees.

Re:Why exclude?

[anthropomorphized]

Cornice will only have to "eventually pay licensing fees to Seagate" if Seagate successfully sues for patent infringement. The fact that Seagate is asking to exclude Cornice does not necessarily mean that exclusion is actually Seagate's desired final outcome. It could simply be a litigation strategy. It is used all the time. If Seagate wins the infringement action, and Cornice is faced with the possibility of losing ALL revenue from the infringing product line, that is a HUGE incentive to Cornice to settle with Seagate and negotiate a license. Of course the licensing fee in that situation will likely be far greater than the fee if Cornice and Seagate were to negotiate now, since without a court ruling that Cornice is ingringing, Cornice has no incentive to give in to Seagate's possibly sky-high demands.

Futhermore, the statutory penalty for patent infringement is damages, or at least a reasonable licensing fee. You might be surprised how often the reasonable licensing fee is actually more money than damages, since the damages calculation is complicated and difficult to prove.

The point is that many companies use infringement suits a bargaining chip to extract higher licensing fees.

Patent Ownership

[nurb432]

If they are violating Segates patents, then they SHOULD be sued..

Abuse of patent the system is wrong, but if you have received patent approval, you have the right ( obligation as far as im concerned ) to protect your patent.

If the patent system was totally abolished, then few companies would bother to innovate. Without some protection of having your work stolen ( and future income derived from it ) from you, why bother at all?

Re:Patent Ownership

[WindBourne]

If the patent system was totally abolished, then few companies would bother to innovate. Without some protection of having your work stolen ( and future income derived from it ) from you, why bother at all?

Personally, I do not believe that. Companies would still inovate. They have to otherwise they would die. What would probably not happen is that inovations that require a lot of fundemental research (read expense) would not happen. Nor would companies be in a hurry to share information.

Patents were developed to allow an individual time to develop an idea. Now adays, these have been extended to the point that they are the business. I believe that we should go back to what the framers wanted; A means to allow an individual to develop.

Re:Patent Ownership

[rollingcalf]

" If they are violating Segates patents, then they SHOULD be sued..

Abuse of patent the system is wrong, but if you have received patent approval, you have the right ( obligation as far as im concerned ) to protect your patent."

Obtaining a patent for something that was invented before or is obvious to those skilled in the field, and choosing to sue for infringement of that patent, is itself an abuse of the patent system (regardless of the fact that the system allows such abuse by granting low-quality patents).

They should be sued only if they are violating the patents AND the patents are for legitimate non-obvious inventions. Occurrences of the latter are very uncommon these days.

No surprise..

[Mr2cents]

Is it even possible to design a harddisk these days without ingringing on one of the major player's patents?

Is that the future that awaits programmers with those software patents?

Re:No surprise..

[tkrotchko]

Only a terrorist would question the government.
-- John Ashcroft

Re:No surprise..

[k98sven]

Googling gave nothing: Do you have a source for that quote?

Although I truely despise Ashcroft, I cannot believe he is so monumentally stupid to say something like that.

Or did you intend to paraphrase?

Re:Couldn't this hurt the US?

[randyest]

I mean the patent laws are anti-business

Eh? I guess that's true if your "business" is using the fruits of the research and development of other companies without any permission or compensation. But I'm afraid most business, at least those interested in developing new things, appreciate that they can use patents to help ensure they make some money to pay off that fat R&D bill before everyone else just reverse-engineers a product and puts out a knock-off version for half the price immediately.

How will small businesses and internationals compete against US businesses when all international products are up for review.

The same way they always have -- through innovation, superior products, better service, better prices, etc. You don't have to steal to compete.

Re:Couldn't this hurt the US?

[LostCluster]

But in this case, this is being done to protect a US-based company from being driven out of the business by a competitor that's making the same product without having to pay any of the R&D costs behind it.

Patents exist so whomever bears the R&D cost has some decent chance of profiting before everybody else rushes in and drives down the price. If you allow the patent system to fall, R&D dies with it.

Re:Couldn't this hurt the US?

[Macadamizer]

You do realize that virtually every other country ALSO has patent laws of various types -- some stricter than the U.S., some looser, but most countries have a patent system of one type or antoher.

At least the U.S. has an enforcement mechanism for patents, unlike India or China...

more information.

[phuturephunk]

I'd like to see more information on the technology thats being infringed upon. If Cornice is indeed taking patented technology, ripping it off and using it for their own benefit, then they should be stopped and have to pay for it.
Unlike software patents, which should be treated differently, hardware patents have quite a bit much more riding on the line for the company that chooses to undertake the endeavor of actually designing and manufacturing a piece of hardware.

Wait and See

[WindBourne]

Some of you are in a real hurry to convict Cornice with out having a grasp of what the situation is. They are a start-up with good technology and good sales. Basically they produce diskdrives that use very few parts. Cornice was started by a group that use to make Maxtor, Seagate, etc. They know well what the patents are. My understanding is that the company is not infringing, but both groups hope to pressure Cornice into trading patents with them.

Re:I hope those infringed patents don't include...

[Caiwyn]

Maxtor bought Quantum, not Seagate.

Anyone know what the actual patent numbers are?

[AnotherBlackHat]

Anyone know what the actual patent numbers are?

-- not a .sig

MOD DOWN, PLEASE

[WindBourne]

this suit is wholly warranted, Cornice is stealing, patents can and should be used to protect against this sort of thing.

My understanding is Cornice is not infringing. What is going on is that these companies want Cornice to deal with them and give them access to Cornice's Patents (Think SCO vs. IBM. Think MS busy accumulating total BS patents.) These patents make it possible to build inexpensive, low-energy, small disk drives. This post was totally reactionary and does not deserve a 1 let alone a 5.

Re:MOD DOWN, PLEASE

[Macadamizer]

"Just curious, where did your understanding come from?Techies/Engineer from Cornice."

Cool, thanks.

"I am guessing that there will be some level of infringment ( 1 line from the patent vs. the whole thing ) and that is allowing their lawyers to take the case to court."

Yeah, that could very well be. You have to have at least a "good faith" belief that there is infringement in order to avoid sanctions.

"Interesting to hear about that penalty."

FYI, here's the relevant section of Rule 11:

"(2) Nature of Sanction; Limitations. A sanction imposed for violation of this rule shall be limited to what is sufficient to deter repetition of such conduct or comparable conduct by others similarly situated. Subject to the limitations in subparagraphs (A) and (B), the sanction may consist of, or include, directives of a nonmonetary nature, an order to pay a penalty into court, or, if imposed on motion and warranted for effective deterrence, an order directing payment to the movant of some or all of the reasonable attorneys' fees and other expenses incurred as a direct result of the violation.

(A) Monetary sanctions may not be awarded against a represented party for a violation of subdivision (b)(2).

(B) Monetary sanctions may not be awarded on the court's initiative unless the court issues its order to show cause before a voluntary dismissal or settlement of the claims made by or against the party which is, or whose attorneys are, to be sanctioned."

The scary thing (for attorneys, at least) is that the court can order that the Rule 11 sanctions be paid by the attorney and not allow the company that hired the attorney to indemnify the attorney!

Two things.

[Raven42rac]

Western Digital is suing them too, so obviously something is up. Full disclosure requires me to say that 6 members of my family work for Seagate. The gist I got from the article is that Cornice is infringing on Seagate's patents relating to 1-inch hard disk drives as one of the seven patents alleged to have been infringed. I know how /.ers feel about software patents, but it is right to extend that attitude to the hardware sector? These aren't ones and zeroes, these are platters and heads. The materials cost actual money, and thousands of actual people depend on those materials to make their living. If it was open season on everything, we would have nothing, we would still be in mud huts using two cups and a string to communicate. If there is no incentive for profit, most companies won't bother to make something. That is capitalism, you take the good with the bad.

Re:Two things.

[Raven42rac]

Ok, I will take the bait. You can't operate a business without money, so if people can just come along and steal your ideas, you're screwed. Some people innovate for genuine interest because they are already independently wealthy and can afford to not make money, the same is not true for corporations, who have shareholders to report to. If you want communism in America, then I guess you don't like eating, or having property, or not being shot/disappeared.

Re:Two things.

[Raven42rac]

It is pretty easy to sell something cheaper when you didn't develop it.

Re:Two things.

[JInterest]

If it was open season on everything, we would have nothing, we would still be in mud huts using two cups and a string to communicate. If there is no incentive for profit, most companies won't bother to make something.

There is absolutely no evidence to support the idea that patents are necessary to innovation, and there never has been. Check the literature, and you will find that inventors usually begin as people interested in solving a particular problem, not capitalists interested in filling their pockets. They come later, and the innovate very little. There's no money in it.

Patents are a product of the same economic thinking that produced the doctrine of mercantilism. Mercantilism was the loose economic theory that dominated 17th and 18th century Europe, founded on the idea that the wealth of nations. It promoted high tariffs on foreign goods, promotion of local markets, and other doctrines that would now be called "protectionist".

Adam Smith, of course, poked holes in the thinking behind mercantilism. Those who believe patents are necessary to progress are like those who believe protectionism is necessary to prosperity. It isn't sound thinking. Unfortunately, vested interests with a lot of money and power support patents like they once did the state-supported industries of the mercantilist era.

Like the mercantlists of an earlier era, those who support extensive patent protections encourage rent-seeking behavior, not risk-taking behavior, the consolidation of wealth, not the creating of wealth.

So thank you very much, but given that Seagate and Western Digital may be playing the patent card to put down a young and aggressive competitor with a better product, I see no reason to assume that Cornice is the bad guy here. Yes, obviously, something is up. WD and Seagate are afraid of Cornice. On the other hand, a lawsuit is evidence of nothing but that somebody wanted to sue somebody else, whether they have a case or not/P

Descriptions and abstracts of 5 of the patents

[haruchai]

I didn't include 6,455,845 - Ion packet generation for mass spectrometer because it made no sense as to why this was included.

5,452,159: Magnetic parking device for disk drive
( Sep, '95)
A magnetic parking device for a disk drive includes a magnet and a member for containing the magnetic field produced by the magnet. The magnetic field containing member has an air gap which is substantially parallel to the magnet flux lines of the magnetic field so that there is no fringing of the magnetic field outside of the gap. The device magnetically captures a magnetically permeable capture member provided on the actuator of a disk drive without contacting the capture member and only when the actuator enters the gap in the magnetic field containing member

5,600,506 - Feb, '97
Apparatus and method for determining the position of a transducer relative to a disk surface in a disk drive system

Abstract

A method and system for generating a position signal indicative of the position of a transducer with reference to a fixed reference point on the surface of a disk within a disk drive system. The system is comprised of two major elements. The first element is a disk divided into sectors and has Z data tracks where each sector includes a preamble area that includes a servo band comprised of 0.75*Z consecutive overlapping quadrature servo patterns and gray scale band comprised of 1.5*Z consecutively addressed gray scale areas that have been recorded across all data tracks. The second element is a position generator that generates the position signal from the relative magnitude of each of the four servo bursts of a quadrature servo pattern of the servo band and the gray scale address of the gray scale area of the gray scale band that is read by a transducer when the transducer reads the preamble of a sector.

6,146,754 - Nov, 2000
Substantially isotropic magnetic recording medium comprising a seedlayer

Abstract

A high areal density magnetic recording medium exhibiting high Hc, high SNR, high S* and substantially isotropic magnetic properties is achieved by depositing a thin seedlayer before depositing the underlayer. Embodiments include heating the seedlayer under vacuum in the presence of residual oxygen to induce appropriate crystalline orientation and surface morphology for nucleation and growth of the underlayer and magnetic layer having substantially isotropic magnetic properties.

6,324,054 - Nov, 2001

Wrap around shock absorber for disc drives

Abstract

The shock absorber apparatus for a disc drive is a molded polymeric enclosure adapted to receive and retain a disc drive. One preferred embodiment of the present invention has a shock absorbing material of a first thickness adjacent a critical region of the drive and a second thickness of shock absorbing material adjacent a non-critical region of the disc drive. The first thickness is greater than the second thickness in order to absorb a greater shock load to protect the critical region of the disc drive.

5,596,461 - Jan, '97
Space efficient housing configuration for a disk drive #7

Abstract

A space efficient disk drive housing is described. The disk drive housing comprises a base member having a top, a bottom, and an outer perimeter having length and end portions of preselected dimensions and a cover element comprising a top surface and side walls depending downwardly from the top surface. The cover element has length and width dimensions corresponding to the dimensions of the length and end portions of the base member so that the cover element can be secured to the base member to form the housing. The cover element is provided with a first raised portion to provide a height dimension within the housing sufficient for topmost portions of a spindle motor and head stack assembly of a disk stack assembly of a disk drive. Remaining portions of the top surface of the cover element providing a continuous, single PCB support surface. A set of support posts is provid