On Gay Themes In Videogames

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Posted by simoniker on Monday July 12, 2004 @07:59AM from the de-lovely dept.

shadowcabbit writes "Gamespot's most recent GameSpotting covered a wide range of topics, but probably one of the most intriguing among them is the examination of homosexual themes in video games. The article raises a few interesting questions, such as 'how much longer until an explicitly 'gay' game comes out?', but oddly focuses on male homosexual relationships, claiming them to be a way to entice female players; and mentions that while the main purveyors of homosexual content in games are Japanese companies like Squaresoft and NEC (who made the infamous Chou Aniki series), U.S. producers are starting to slip in some risque content, citing Temple of Elemental Evil's 'gay pirate' Bertram, and Will Wright's The Sims not balking at same-sex couples adopting a child character." We've previously covered another article on a similar subject.

18 of 164 comments (clear)

who ... cares.... by MBraynard · 2004-07-12 08:02 · Score: 4, Insightful

More than movies or TV, games are about being fun. So while you might see an otherwise unejoyable tv miniseries get acclaimed for discussing some kind of social issue like pedophilia or AIDS, you are not going to find a game that tries to make a social issue it's theme cause it won't sell.
There is no market for 'artistic' games. Only fun ones.
1. Re:who ... cares.... by I_Love_Pocky! · 2004-07-12 08:30 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I don't know why this has been modded off topic. You are clearly trying to say that making a "gay" game for the sake of it being a "gay" game is "artistic."
  
  In that sense I agree with you. As with anything else, there is no point in creating entertainment featuring a particular segment of society unless it adds to the entertainment value.
  
  My biggest problem with this whole idea is that unless it is handled properly, I would think that any "gay" game would probably turn out to be one big stereotype reenforcing gay joke.
  
  Honestly, it shouldn't matter if a character is gay or not. Just as it usually doesn't matter if they are straight (I would think Duke Nuken would probably have been a very different game if Duke was gay). Most games don't really have that much sexual content in them anyway.
2. Re:who ... cares.... by spike_gran · 2004-07-12 09:13 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Have to agree with this one. Games are supposed to be about fun. And since games are expensive to make, it only makes sense that that there is a need to appeal to the widest possible audience.
  
  I think you can draw a distinction between highly scripted games with strong characters and less scripted games with more abstract characters. For the strongly scripted games (FFX), one needs to tell a story that will play to the big audience, which probably means being low on the explicit male homosexual behavior, because it might alienate some of the core audience. But for more abstract games, a sexual preference could be just another option in the avatar customization menu.
  
  Since gays make up a small fraction of the audience, primarily gay-themed games will have a similar market to primarily gay themed movies. They will, by financial necessity, have smaller budgets, smaller scope and smaller development staff. Currently the state of game development tools means that it is still very hard to make a home-grown game (as compared to a home-recorded song or movie). But I think where the tools are mature and development is simple, gay games will pop up.
3. Re:who ... cares.... by Chasuk · 2004-07-12 10:18 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  A game with "gay" content is not an artistic one (necessarily).
  
  I'm gay. I also happen to be artistic, but that has nothing to do with the type of content that most of my community would like to see.
  
  What would we like to see? Gay-blindness, really. Game mechanics which make no distinction between hetero or homo avatars, and no gay characters who are stereotypes.
  
  Ever heard the joke about the trick-or-treater who dressed as a serial killer? The punchline was that he dressed the same as the everyone else, because serial killers can be anyone.
  
  Gay people can be anyone, and frequently are not whom you would expect.
  
  If I can speak on behalf of the gay community, I would guess that this is our collective wish: to be depicted and treated in games exactly like the hetero majority.
  
  From the main article:
  
  U.S. producers are starting to slip in some risque content,
  
  Gay content is not risque content. See above if you don't get it.
  
  --
  Neopets - the best free game on the Int
Morrowind by yoyhed · 2004-07-12 08:04 · Score: 4, Informative

In Morrowind (2002), Crassius Curio, in one instance, demands you give him a kiss for him to give you what you need, and another instance, demands you remove all your clothing (and you actually have to go into your inventory and remove everything you're wearing).

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WHO NEEDS SHIFT WHEN YOU HAVE CAPSLOCK/ DAMN1
Why? by JavaLord · 2004-07-12 08:06 · Score: 5, Insightful

The article raises a few interesting questions, such as 'how much longer until an explicitly 'gay' game comes out?',

How about when a game comes out that has a story where the character is gay, and the characters sexuality adds something to the storyline? I'm sure it won't end up being like that, some game developer will do it just to be 'edgy' and it probably will have no bearing on the game whatsoever.

but oddly focuses on male homosexual relationships,

Of course, because they are more shocking/disturb more people.

claiming them to be a way to entice female players;

Not....likely. It's more likely that you can entice male players with female homosexuals.

and mentions that while the main purveyors of homosexual content in games are Japanese companies like Squaresoft and NEC

Of course, because their culture is more open (or depraved, depending on your point of view) when it comes to sex.

and Will Wright's The Sims not balking at same-sex couples adopting a child character."

Why not, it's only someone else they can market the Sims to. Personally I hope when the first "gay" character comes out of the closet it actually has something to do with the storyline of the game, rather than it be just window dressing.

This article is way behind the times. I play CS and all I ever here are people telling each other how gay they are. Maybe that is what all those terrorists and CT's are fighting over. It's all pent up homoerotic sexual frustration.
1. Re:Why? by cephyn · 2004-07-12 08:11 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  In an american context you're right, but in Japan, homosexual male relationships do indeed entice female players. Just look at anime and manga geared towards the femenine audience, almost all will have pretty-boy characters, many of them engaged in at the very least flirtatious behavior with other male characters. I agree that's unlikely to draw American females, but in Japan its a proven tactic.
  
  --
  Moo.
2. Re:Why? by david.given · 2004-07-12 08:29 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  How about when a game comes out that has a story where the character is gay, and the characters sexuality adds something to the storyline? I'm sure it won't end up being like that, some game developer will do it just to be 'edgy' and it probably will have no bearing on the game whatsoever.
  You may be interested in Graham Nelson's interactive fiction game, Jigsaw (reckoned to be one of the best text adventures ever written).
  There are two main characters, working against each other: White, you is the player character; and Black, the major NPC. Black is trying to change history, and you are trying to prevent it. Mostly.
  One of the major plot elements is that you and Black fall in love. This makes things a little complicated, as you can imagine, and is extremely significant to the storyline.
  However, the interesting thing is that Jigsaw never mentions what sex you and Black are. Clever wording means that the text never even uses pronouns to refer to the two of you. All you know is that you find Black highly attractive. This means that you're free to project any sex you like onto the two characters. Different players will have different mental images; some reviewers saw White and Black as both being male, more tended to see them as being a heterosexual couple, of various combinations. (If you're at all interested, I saw White as being female and Black as being male.) It's a remarkable piece of work.
  (Must try replaying it... I never finished it the last time I tried; it is fiendishly hard.)
Please don't be an event by NanoGator · 2004-07-12 08:16 · Score: 3, Interesting

" The article raises a few interesting questions, such as 'how much longer until an explicitly 'gay' game comes out?"

I can't wait for the day when a new 'group' can be represented in video games on tv without making an event out of it. If I'm playing a game, and it turns out a character is gay or whatever, cool, no prob with that. As a matter of fact, that made GTA3 kind of funny. But if I'm supposed to run out and buy a game BECAUSE it's revolutionary for putting a group of people in a spotlight.. then, geez, what's the point? Am I supposed to buy this game to prove I'm not a bigot?

Eh sorry for the rant. I just have trouble imaginging that this isn't offensive to gays. In an effort to prove they're not any different from anybody else, they're made out to be uber special in some grand glorious event. It reminds me of that episode of South Park where the nurse had a fetus on her face.

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"Derp de derp."
1. Re:Please don't be an event by WormholeFiend · 2004-07-12 08:32 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  In an effort to prove they're not any different from anybody else, they're made out to be uber special in some grand glorious event.
  
  You mean like Gay Pride street parades?
2. Re:Please don't be an event by cephyn · 2004-07-12 08:39 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Or St Patricks Day parades for the Irish? Or maybe you'd like to tell African-Americans not to have Black History Month Parades or Civil Rights marches because they shouldn't make an event out of trying to prove they're just like everyone else.
  
  --
  Moo.
Well... by Per+Wigren · 2004-07-12 08:29 · Score: 5, Interesting

I'm openly bisexual myself and I just hate it when they make a big thing out of homo/bi/trans sexuality, like it's supposed to be sensational or chocking or something.. Get over it, it's no big deal..

That said, I love seeing gay love (I'm not talking about sex this time) in movies, when it just happens and they don't make a big thing out of it.. It's unfortunatly very rare in the westen world, but in asian movies (at least japanese and korean) you sometimes see gay/lesbian lovers and it's just there as a part of the plot and they don't focus on it anymore than they would have done with a straight couple. Beautiful!

I'd really love to see a fun lovestory adventuregame like Monkey Island but where Elaine is a guy (or even better, a transsexual) but they just ARE without making it a "gay-game"...

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My other account has a 3-digit UID.
1. Re:Well... by cephyn · 2004-07-12 09:48 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Of course, its normal and common over there, so of course they dont make a big deal about it. Here, its not like that. Once a big deal is made, it will be normal and not a big deal after. Just look at civil rights for a historical context. A big deal was made when women fought for, and won, the right to vote for the first time. Now, its not a big deal, its normal for women to vote. What would be a big deal is if you say, lowered the voting age to 16 or something like that.
  
  --
  Moo.
2. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-07-12 12:04 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Hi, Anonymous Coward here again. I'd like to apologise for my comments in the above post.
  
  It's true; the only reason I made those comments was because my repressed homosexuality made me uncomfortable, but now I've come to accept it.
  
  Jeez, what an asshole I used to be. Please forgive me.
Try XBL! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-07-12 08:33 · Score: 5, Funny

Gosh, the author obviously hasn't played Xbox Live very much. If I'm to believe what everyone I've played against says, nearly everyone on XBL is gay.
That only happens if you are female or you played by SmallFurryCreature · 2004-07-12 08:51 · Score: 5, Insightful

That only happens if you are female or you played with a patch (or perhaps you had a bug (he didn't ask my male char)) but morrowind was hetero. Meaning females and males had different love interests. Of course since morrowind was designed to be easily patched by users this was quickly altered so that you could do all the love stories regardless of your characters sex.
Wich might suggest that the game playing audience is a lot more ready for this then the game makers or the game reviewers or the game raters.
In morrowind when you where naked you were still in your undies. In a prequel I think when you where naked you really where naked. This was removed to appease goverment regulators in the USofC(ensorship).

--

MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Re:Put gays in games... by Pluvius · 2004-07-12 08:56 · Score: 4, Insightful

I have a problem with all the "gay shows" on TV now-a-days not because they have gay characters, but because of how the gay characters are portrayed as having that be their only character trait. It's like homosexuality is a gimmick that executives use in order to get higher ratings.

Anybody remember Ellen DeGeneres' old self-titled sitcom? It was actually pretty funny until Ellen came out of the closet, then every episode became centered around how gay she was. All of the humor was gone and the show got canceled pretty quickly after.

Rob
MOD PARENT UP by blackcoot · 2004-07-12 14:33 · Score: 3, Insightful

there are a lot of queer folk (lesbian, gay, bisesual, transexual/transgendered, intersex, questioning, and the rest of the alphabet soup), myself included, who are sick to death of the monoculture that's built up. there seems to be this impression that once you identify yourself as belonging to a group that identity supercedes any you may have had before. it makes dating a rather unpleasant experience: my choices are guys my age who haven't gotten over the fact that they like cock or guys about 10 years older than i, about a quarter of whom have realized that there's more to life than rainbow flags, circuit parties, and the gap's latest fall clothing lines (gee, i'm not bitter...).

the more i think about it, the more a lot of the media attention on homoexuals has strong parallels to the blacksploitation films of the early '70s. the thematic elements are different, but the market forces are the same: how to best capitalize on the present frenzy of attention being paid to the issue. personally, i'm really looking forward to the day when nobody gives a fuck about this and we can all move on with our lives.