Slashdot Mirror


Alan Kay Decries the State of Computing

gnaremooz writes "Computer pioneer Alan Kay (DARPA in the '60s, PARC in the '70s, now HP Labs) declares 'The sad truth is that 20 years or so of commercialization have almost completely missed the point of what personal computing is about.' He believes that PCs should be tools for creativity and learning, and they are falling short."

14 of 479 comments (clear)

  1. Creativity by muttoj · · Score: 5, Funny

    I do not agree with the writer. I takes me a lot of creativity to find different ways to frag my friends in Battlefield 1942. Also playing battlefield teach me some nice skills for the real life. (press 9 for parachute whenever I fall out of a airplane and such)

  2. Not-So-Sad Truth by CommanderData · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From the Article:
    The chances that in the last week or year or month you've used the computer to simulate some interesting idea is zero--but that's what it's for.

    I'd have to disagree with Kay here, just because his work was with education and simulation doesn't mean that is really what computers are to be used for. They're the most unique and versatile tool ever invented by man, their purpose is whatever we choose it to be at the moment.

    --
    Urge to post... fading... fading... RISING!... fading... fading... gone.
    1. Re:Not-So-Sad Truth by Deag · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I have to agree with this, he comes across as bitter about something.


      Also from the article:


      Kay's ultimate dream is to completely remake the way we communicate with each other.


      I'd say this has been fairly achieved (It came across in the article that it hadn't been). I can't vouch personnally for 30 years ago, but i'd say the way we communicate with each other has changed alot since then - text messages, email, mobile phones are a different way of communicating then what it was.

    2. Re:Not-So-Sad Truth by Scarblac · · Score: 5, Interesting

      They're the most unique and versatile tool ever invented by man, their purpose is whatever we choose it to be at the moment.

      I think that's his point - they're the most unique and versatile tool ever invented, we could do anything, but what we use it for is 99% things we basically had before - business documents and simple calculations, games, video and audio replay/recording.

      They could be so much more.

      --
      I believe posters are recognized by their sig. So I made one.
  3. werd by RevAaron · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Anyone who has spoken with him personally- in person or via email- or read his words, seen his vision knows this. Alan is *the* man.

    There's a great XEROX Video we've here at our uni library- "Doing with images makes symbols [videorecording] : communicating with computers," released in 1987 while Kay was a fellow with Apple. For an enthusiastic and engrossing view of what Kay thinks computers *should* be (and I'm 100% with him!) should check it out.

    Also, look into Smalltalk. Alan works on Squeak Smalltalk- rather than C++ or Java- and there's a good reason for it. Smalltalk has the tendency to empower both end user and programmer. It's "open source" in a way that most slashdotters have never imagined. It's kind of like having your whole computer run Emacs, but without being stuck with some funky half-GUI half-terminal app with nothing but key commands to drive it. Squeak gives us the power to control our computing environment in a way similar to emacs, although Squeak is a lot closer to a "conventional" GUI environment than Emacs. That said, there are a lot of things about Squeak's GUI toolkit - Morphic- that are highly unconventional, but quite great to have around.

    OK, enough early morning rambling from me...

    --

    Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
  4. Re:Arrgh.. by RevAaron · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Another computer visionary with vague promises and criticisms.
    Instead of doing [insert clearly-defined practical thing here], you should be doing [insert vague semi-buzzword here, like "education", or "object"] and you should be using [insert visionary's product here] to do it.


    Not quite...

    While people are certainly welcome to disagree with Kay's vision, he's not in the same barrel of monkey that most so-called visionarise and pundits live. Unlike most of those, he's implemented those ideas, and has been spent implementing those- in real, live, usable code- for the last 30-some years. Kay doesn't have a product, he's got nothing in a box to sell. He does have an idea to sell, though you don't pay for it with your money. He's been doing it in a very practical way for 30 years, not just making vague promises.

    --

    Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad
  5. Re:Arrgh.. by cagle_.25 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From the article,
    But a man like this cannot be dismissed merely because he occasionally creeps toward arrogance. What's much more important is that he does not merely complain. He has a vision and a team working to bring his alternate vision to reality.
    Alan's point is that the truly mathematical aspects of computing have become second-place to the eye-candy aspects. I think he's right, but I also think it was inevitable. Why would hordes of people that never loved math before all the sudden become mathematicians just because they have computers to use?

    Of course, Alan's aim is to change the tide. Hence, his work on Squeak. The goal for him is to use computers as a tool to enhance our thinking. More power to him.
    --
    Human being (n.): A genetically human, genetically distinct, functioning organism.
  6. Re:Arrgh.. by hcdejong · · Score: 5, Interesting

    But he does have a point. Most of the effort that's gone into hardware and software development, has been aimed at doing the same things faster. Real innovation is very rare. Our desktops still are essentially the same as the 1984 Macintosh. PDAs still haven't caught up with the Newton. Computers are still dumb.

  7. Croquet by lukeduff · · Score: 5, Informative

    In techie terms, he is working on an infinitely scalable system for "real-time immersive collaboration done entirely as peer-to-peer machines."

    He's probably talking about Croquet which is a 3d collaborative environment developed on top of Squeak. Impressive stuff.

  8. Re:I'd disagree somewhat... by cowscows · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I entirely disagree. Just about everyone is born creative. Watch some little kids sometimes. When they get bored they'll take whatever toys they can get their hands on and use them as props to get completely absorbed in a storyline or world that their brain makes as they go. It may not be very complicated, but kids don't yet have much to base it on.

    Life does a good job of teaching us to be less creative. Our culture is so full of complicated yet boring things that we have to spend most of our time doing, and so creativity can often fall by the wayside. I'm glad that I had to take all of those math classes in grade school, but every hour that I spent doing my geometry homework was one less hour I could spend playing with photoshop. Now-a-days, I've not only got work to deal with, I've also got to spend my free time paying bills, going grocery shopping, cleaning the house, trying to understand what the hell is going on with the politics in my city, state, and country... when I sit down with a pad and paper and try to design a table that I need to build, I'm too tired to think.

    Sadly enough, I think things have gotten worse for kids as well. There are so many different toys, and they have such complex features, they almost take the need for creativity away. An example talked about often on /. is lego. When I was younger, I had a few random sets. Some spaceships, some the city, some just plain old blocks. And I made all sorts of crap. My next door neighbor had all of the sets from one of the spaceship series (including the badass monorail), but he was so obsessed with that series itself that he would just build each object according to the instructions, and sit it on the floor with all the others. He wouldn't dare take them apart, much less let me near them. The only decisions he made was which space station outpost got put next to the lunar landing pad. That jerk was pretty much the same way with all of his GI-joes too. Until I started throwing them down the stairs, he did enjoy that.

    Anyways, while some people are naturally better at being creative than others, doesn't mean many people are inherently unable to be creative. Creativity is one of the defining features of our intelligence. It's what puts our minds above those of animals. Anytime you aid the creative process, you improve it. It's not a learned skill persay, it's a Re-learned one.

    --

    One time I threw a brick at a duck.

  9. Re:Cue the Apple zealots ... by mccalli · · Score: 5, Interesting
    "I've no idea what this Kay dude is talking about, I just finished reading this very interesting article on Australian dingos in my World Book. Now excuse me while I have to finish my latest iCompositions in my iGarageband, and organise my iPhotoalbums, all while wirelessly browsing the iWeb sitting in my iGarden."

    Ok - I'll bite. And I'll bite for personal computing at large, rather than just as an Apple user (which I happen to be, but the below could be achieved on any platform).

    The very interesting articles I've digging out recently are on how to play the clarinet. I do use my machines to write music. I quite definitely have my photo albums on the the machine. I'll add video to your list too, and DVD authoring. I'll add web authoring. I'll add accounts - not exciting, but definitely simulating ideas. I'll add communciation - email and video conferencing with friends who are at least hundred of miles away, in some cases on a different continent. In my case, I'll add development and web authoring. And yes, when circumstances allow I sit in my garden and use the 802.11g connection.

    I honestly, truly, have no idea what Alan Kay is on about. Generalising the whole of computing on a business knocking out office documents is a bit poor. Then again, the article didn't have much in the way of direct quotes from Mr. Kay - perhaps his main thrust has been misunderstood?

    Cheers,
    Ian

  10. Re:It's true by mst76 · · Score: 5, Funny
    Take for example, the commodire 64. This had a user interface that came up in about a second, and was immediately useable. Nobody ever looked at my C64 in a confused way wondering what it does. They knew. It was obvious.
    READY.
    HELP

    ?SYNTAX ERROR
    READY.
    HI

    ?SYNTAX ERROR
    READY.
    HELLO?

    ?SYNTAX ERROR
    READY.
    EAT FLAMING DEATH

    ?SYNTAX ERROR
    READY.
  11. Re:Arrgh.. by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 5, Interesting
    His example: A software package that just looks like the modern equivalent of LOGO. Interesting, sure. Probably lots of fun to play with as a child. More compelling that e-mail or Wikipedia? Please.

    Don't belittle Smallalk . It ain't. Case in point: some years ago, a friend of mine had the misfortune of having sold beaucoup computers and servers to an ailing airline, which was pretty much behind in it's payments.

    One day, I get an enthusiastic phone call from him: Can you go to the airport and go to $AIRLINE offices to fix their macintosh??? (I was the outside mac expert). When I got there, the V.P. of finance was at the reception waiting for me and handed me a five-figure cheque for the outstanding invoiced...

    Turns out that this single computer had an AI application written in Smalltalk that handled all the logistics and scheduling of their aircraft fleet; their whole operations depended on this one computer.

    I was not able to fix the mac: it's motherboard was shot.

    A week later, they filed for bankrupcy but at least, the cheque cleared.
  12. Re:Arrgh.. by RevAaron · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'm not talking about Smalltalk. I'm talking about Squeak. RTA.

    I've no acronym for this, but Know What You're Talking About (KWYTA?). Squeak *is* Smalltalk. It's not the only Smalltalk dialect there is, but it the fastest growing Smalltalk, the Smalltalk with the biggest online community around it.

    If you run a LOGO implementation, written in C, on top of your Linux/X11 box, you don't say that "C is nothing but LOGO," or "Man, leenux suxors, all you can do is play with LOGO" do you? You can use Squeak in a number of ways. You can use the eToys scripting system, which is what I assume you are thinking of as modernized LOGO. Or, if for some reason you feel more "adult" doing so, you can write the GUI in all of your apps in a purely programmatic way. Or, you could do what most Squeakers do- just get the job done in the way that makes sense.

    --

    Working toward a usable PDA environment in the spirit of Newton OS: Dynapad