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Language Tempest At Orkut
Quirk writes "Reuters is carrying an article outlining an ongoing headbutting session between English-speaking users of Goggle's orkut and the Portuguese-speaking users of Brazil. The orkut site has more than 769,000 members; 41.2% are Brazilians and 23.5% are Americans. The sites are now mostly in Portuguese, and English-speaking users are complaining that the service is intended to be in English. Orkut is a service meant to develop by way of invitation, and the Brazilians claim since they are inviting their Brazilian friends it doesn't make sense to communicate in English. Brazilian internet users averaged an estimated 13 hours and 51 minutes in May, eight minutes more than for Americans."
I find it a bit funny that you prefaced that statement "Multi-culturalism is ok" with "Repeat after me." It seems that a lot of people have convinced themselves of the validty of this statement without giving it much thought. Repeat after me: "We are all individuals."
Do you believe standards are bad? Do you think a million different "standards" should exist merely for the sake of diversity? For humanity to be productive, we have to standardize on a language we all understand, be it English, Portugese, or Esperanto. Besides, the idea that language is tied to culture is nothing more than moronic. Yes, fractured languages "preserve" cultures in the sense that they prevent people of different cultures from sharing aspects of their cultures and integrating aspects of other cultures more easily into their own. In other words, fractured languages create artificial barriers among people preventing the natural mixing of cultures that would normally occur. Personally, English is my third language, and I am more than happy to speak and write it (I also had to learn French as my fourth in order to appease those bloody Quebecers).
Now that that is out of the way, we come the the subject of culture itself. Multiculturalism shouldn't be about artificially creating a thousand small cultures; it should be about merging the best elements of cultures.
Finally, I'd like to address the often mentioned concept that "all cultures are equal." The moment you accept that "Nazis are evil" you accept that all cultures are in fact not equal. I'm certainly not saying that American culture is the ueber-Culture which should assimilate all others (I'm not even an American), not am I implying that American culture is the best culture by any means. I merely wish that we would put all this politically correct garbage behind us and examine the situation instead of ignoring everything around us and repeating to ourselves that "Multi-culturalism is ok."
Uttering logically derived and empirically supported truths to the disciples of the orthodox establishment.
PP. Obrigado!
It's couldn't care less, not could care less. If you could care less then that means you care some. If you couldn't care less that means you do not care, and, therefore, could not care any more.
You are a moron if you don't see how language can be tied to culture. Please look up culture in a dictionary.
First, I'd like to mention that your argumentum ad hominem really displays your level of tolerance.
Yes, I understand that people generally relate language to culture. Yes, language may very well affect the manner in which you think; however, the main reason language is associated with culture is because people who can communicate with each other (speak the same language) share ideas and cooperate in other ways forming a culture. By the way, the definition of culture I use is "shared beliefs and values of a group: the beliefs, customs, practices, and social behavior of a particular nation or people."
Interesting that you had to learn French in a French community.
No, I learned French in an English community. I live in English-Canada (the vast majority of Canada) where almost all the people speak nothing but English.
Uttering logically derived and empirically supported truths to the disciples of the orthodox establishment.
I believe that diversity in language and culture is a good thing.
:P Ok, this point isn't a crucial part of my argument, but I just thought I would throw it out there anyway.
Then why are you so quick to want to sacrifice Canadian culture (yes, they used to have one before all this multiculturalism stuff got started) and American culture for the noble goal of multiculturalism. If you truly believe that cultural diversity is a good thing, aren't two more unique cultures a good thing? The move humanity should be making should be toward individuality and complete inclusion, not division and "communities" based on what one's ancestors did. But anyway, with the birth rate approaching 1 in Western Europe and far below the required approx. 2 required to maintain a stable population even in the US, which has the highest birth rate of any major western country, combined with the upcoming rise of both China and India as superpowers, and the inevitable decline of the US as a superpower, Western Civilization is bound to approach extinction anyway; the concept of multiculturalism is only accelerating this natural outcome a bit.
Plus Quebecoise girls are intrinsically hot.
Why is it that every time someone mentions multiculturalism, they mention hot/attractive girls/women belonging to other cultures/ethnicities/whatever? What is wrong with the women in the place where you live? This trend seems to be bordering on discrimination a bit.
When you say culture A is "better" than culture B, what metric are you applying?
Personally, I've never said any specific culture is better than any other specific culture; I merely wish to introduce the notion. There are plenty of metrics you could use i.e. contribution to the sciences, productivity, how they interact with other cultures, etc. There doesn't have to be one magical all-encompassing metric.
The Nazis were a political group, though you might make the (sketchy) argument that followers of a particular brand of politics constitute a culture.
And when the vast majority (yes, I know not each and every German was a Nazi) of the people of a country are devout followers of the beliefs of one party, that is a culture. But, if you insist, I'll rephrase my original statement, although the point remains: The moment you accept that "The beliefs of majority of Germans circa 1940 were evil by the standards that we would use today" you accept that all cultures are in fact not equal. There are other examples of cultures which are understood to be evil / inferior (especially among those with left leaning views, who at the same time believe in multiculturalism) see "The South", America, colonial England, cultures which supported the crusades, etc.
To make an analogy, if someone were to try to murder me, I'd fight back.
What if trying to murder you was a crucial part of their culture. Wouldn't fighting back be intolerant?
It doesn't mean they're less of a person than I am,
Ok, now this point I want to contest. Are you saying that Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot were not lesser persons than yourself. I can understand being tolerant, but everything within reasonable bounds.
Political correctness is one thing. Tolerance and cultural sensitivity is another.
Well, at least we can agree on this point. I'm glad someone finally agrees that political correctness has very little to do with tolerance and cultural sensitivity. Political correctness is the antithesis of free speech, not of intolerance and insensitivity.
Uttering logically derived and empirically supported truths to the disciples of the orthodox establishment.
Interesting that you should refer to people who live in Quebec as 'those bloody Quebecers' but then don't expect any reply. Should I understand that in addition to being a racist, you are also incapable of being coherent.
It was a bit tongue-in-cheek; I'm sorry it wasn't conveyed properly. By the way, are you so quick to call other people racists when they refer to other cultures, such as Americans, in a demeaning and offensive manner? If so, we really need more people like you; nowadays, in Canada, it's common to hear things that would be considered racist if said about any culture other than the Americans, yet no one says anything to those people.
There are French Canadians in all parts of Canada.
There are also Hungarian Canadians in all parts of Canada; however, that doesn't make those parts Hungarian Canada.
there are a lot of people all across the country who come from non English speaking countries and speak their native tongue very well
Yes, and the majority of those people also have a decent grasp of English; certainly more than have a decent grasp of French.
In case you can't follow your own threads let me assure you that these 'bloody Quebecers' don't really care if you don't speak French if you don't live in Quebec. Are you trying to imply that Quebecers would like everyone in Canada to speak French? If you are, you are sadly mistaken.
Whether they care or not doesn't change the fact that if it wasn't for their adherence to the French language I would not have had to learn French.
Uttering logically derived and empirically supported truths to the disciples of the orthodox establishment.