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TeraGrid v. Distributed Computing

Nevyan writes "After three years of development and nearly a hundred million dollars the TeraGrid has been running at or above most peoples expectations for such a daunting project. On January 23, 2004 the system came online and provided 4.5 teraflops of computing power to scientists across the country. However, the waiting list for TeraGrid is long, including a bidding process through the National Science Foundations (NSF's) Partnerships for Advanced Computational Infrastructure (PACI) and many scientists with little funding but bright ideas are being left behind. While the list of supercomputer sites and peak power is growing how is the world of Distributed Computing faring? "

15 of 124 comments (clear)

  1. Distributed Computing by Iesus_Christus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The problem with using distributed computing for everything is that the number of people willing to let others use processing power on their computer is not infinite. It is a very large number, but eventually everyone who wants to/knows how to help out their favorite cause will have something already installed. In addition, the more useful endeavors that use distributed computing, the less users you will get for each, and only the 'interesting' projects will get many users. Who wants to use their computing power to analyze some boring old physics experiment when you could be finding aliens or curing cancer?

    Distributed computing has its uses, but remeber: the public will only be willing to help you as long as they feel like they're contributing to something worthwhile.

    1. Re:Distributed Computing by The_Mystic_For_Real · · Score: 3, Insightful
      This could possibly be beneficial to science, whose purpose is ultimately to serve humanity. This creates something of a democracy in science. Now the public can chose what problems that it wants solved and play a direct role in helping while they sleep.

      I think that this is a Good Thing (TM). Distributed computing has the postential to not only further the cause of science, but to bridge the gap between the public and the scientists.

      --

      _____

      Thank you.

    2. Re:Distributed Computing by The_Mystic_For_Real · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You need to remember, humans invented mathematics and science. Numbers are the the relations and functions used in science and mathematics are human creations to describe the universe, much like language, only with more stringent rules.

      --

      _____

      Thank you.

    3. Re:Distributed Computing by samael · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Now the public can chose what problems that it wants solved

      Jesus, there's a horrible thought. I've met the public (and seen it's choice in TV). I'd rather have monkeys choose.

    4. Re:Distributed Computing by NeoSkandranon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You assume they have good judgement as to which causes will end up benefitting them the most.

      --
      If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
    5. Re:Distributed Computing by hunterx11 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Mathematics and science are neither arbitrary inventions nor entirely self-evident discoveries. They are our attempts to understand and categorize the universe in the most objective manner possible. I would even argue that language is a much more abstract type of categorization. Despite mutually unintelligible differences in languages, all languages are used to describe the same reality.

      What I'm trying to say is that the semantics of how we describe the universe may be arbitrary, but the universe is objectively describable.

      --
      English is easier said than done.
    6. Re:Distributed Computing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
      The purpose of science is the advancement of knowledge.

      Science doesn't have purpose. It's a study of phenomena. At least, that's the scientific method:

      The principles and empirical processes of discovery and demonstration considered characteristic of or necessary for scientific investigation, generally involving the observation of phenomena, the formulation of a hypothesis concerning the phenomena, experimentation to demonstrate the truth or falseness of the hypothesis, and a conclusion that validates or modifies the hypothesis.

      There is no purpose without people. Every scientists I know would never do what they do if they didn't think it would improve humanity. I think many of them are wrong, but that doesn't change the purpose of their work. There are lots of easier ways to make money.

  2. Look, this is really very simple by bersl2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you can divide your problem into very many independent subproblems, clustering or distributed computing will work well. If not, your best bet is a true supercomputer.

    So: SETI@Home splits up its scans into sections, each of which do not depend on any other; therefore, a distributed solution is efficient. However, the Earth Simulator deals with chaotic systems (or so I would assume), which do not independently parallelize; this is where having hundreds of processors and terabytes of RAM and using something like NUMA is greatly more efficient.

    In short: use the right tool for the job.

  3. Access and Denial by nevyan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem with large projects like TeraGrid, EarthSimulator and other supercomputer sites is that the underfunded _brilliant_ ideas are left behind by those who can afford to pay for or build these centers and sites.

    While TeraGrid is a powerfool tool it is one that thousands of scientists and laboratories are standing in line to use. Meanwhile Distributed Computing is available, cheap and relatively quick.

    While it may look good on your project to say you used a IBM BlueGENE or DeepComp 6800 is it really worth the extra cost and waiting in line for your chance to use?

    True Distributed Computing is the way to go and shows positive results. Now we just need to tinker with it some more!

    1. Re:Access and Denial by aminorex · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > When you want to simulate every molecule of a
      > proteing in a water solution (~17000 atoms worth)
      > you need a supercomputer.

      But if you want to simulate a billion molecules,
      DC is the way to go: Then it's not a tightly
      coupled system.

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
  4. Why the versus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't understand why we are asking how a hammer is doing compared to a screwdriver? Both are varied computational models, and are at best architectural descriptions as titles; TeraGrid v. Distributed Computing. They have specific application domains and are used to solve different types of problems. One dealing with non-discrete data and experimental calculations (TeraGrid), the other focused on discrete chunks of data being filtered or rendered and are non-time nor message dependent (Distributed Computing; as defined by the Nevyan's reference). You have two tools in your tool chest. What makes one better than the other? They have completely different jobs that they tackle. They both will be successful. They need not be in competition.

  5. Did I read that right? by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 3, Insightful

    4.5 Teraflops for $100 million? Surely not. That much compute power can be had for 1/20'th the price. What am I missing?

    1. Re:Did I read that right? by Detritus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      FLOPS are easy, low latency, high bandwidth communications paths are hard.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  6. Re:Payment for Work Units by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    1) Somebody does pay for time on an expensive cluster. They are built and maintained with your (and my) tax money.
    2) Yes, security is a big issue in Grid computing. And it ain't there yet.

  7. Re:Recommend good cause to donate my free cycles t by Patrik_AKA_RedX · · Score: 2, Insightful
    On the other hand, Folding@Home has already yielded far more interesting results (if not exactly "useful" outside of the world of biophysics) than SETI@Home probably ever will, so go for it.
    IMHO seti@home's benefits lay in the spin-offs. Advancements in distributed computing and digital signal processing. I doubt they would find an alien email anytime soon, but they are very likely to come up with better ways to analyse signals. (read: better cell phones and digital cameras)