Star Wars Galaxies Users Restless Over Rebalancing

Zonk writes "Last Thursday 'Thunderheart', the Community Manager on PC MMO Star Wars Galaxies' forums, dropped a bomb: the long awaited patch rebalancing combat within the game has been pushed off until after the Jump to Lightspeed expansion [which just announced 13 of its 15 spaceships] launches. Given that the JtL expansion is not due until this fall, this puts the combat rebalance somewhere around the beginning of next year. The playerbase has... not taken this well. The original thread on the official forums was locked at 64 pages - it was then picked up again in a thread already surpassing 50 pages. The players are rightly outraged, and the reaction has prompted a response from the Sony Online chain of command. It will be interesting to see how this turns out." Update: 07/21 15:52 GMT by S : There's an interview with producer Haden Blackman over at Game Informer which discusses the issue in more detail.

Comments

Self balancing?

[tod_miller]

I guess people might be strictly 'imperial' or 'rebel' but how about this.

Which ever side sucks, give them a 60-40 / 70-30 majority. This can be done ala counterstrike balancing, initiated by all those people on the forums.

Just put a flag up saying save the *insert side that sucks* and people will rally.

Generally, two sides with equal numbers, one side who is better will always win. Unbalance the numbers to reflect the skills involved, and the games are more interesting.

In the star wars universe, there were more potential 'rebels' that imperials, however, the imperial army was larger (I am guessing)

IANASWF.

Re:How bad is it?

[SmutMonkey]

I believe (although I don't PVP, so I could be wrong) that the problem is with the profession combination Rifleman and Combat Medic. With these two professions it's possible for a player to cause their opponent to become dizzy (if you do pretty much anything while dizzy you fall over) using a Rifleman technique (IIRC) then they inflict damage over time using the combat medic skills. And if you cause them damage, they can just heal themselves. If anyone wants to correct me then please do, I'm just a crafter and don't really know much about combat :)

SWG, SOE, RPG combat and JtL

[LondonLawyer]

My take on SWG is that SOE have more or less accepted that JtL will be kill or cure and so want to concentrate on that before they do anything else.

Seems like they failed to pull off the MMORPG cleanly and had to push it out the door to get some sort of return on their costs. Having spent a year trying to get that playable, it's getting to the stage where the Star Wars brand is no longer a sufficient selling point in the absence of good gameplay.

By delaying their combat rebalance, SOE admittedly piss off subscribers but many of those were pretty pissed off already and have still stuck with SWG. Why? Basically they hope things will improve. If SOE push out the combat rebalance now and it's no good, they will disappoint again. If they wait, those subscribers are likely to hang on long enough to see what the improvements are like. They squeeze a few more months' worth of subs out of people and buy themselves time.

I expect JtL to be indifferent to good and the combat rebalance to be indifferent to poor. I expect JtL will *far* overshadow the RPG combat rebalance. I don't think combat is a priority for SOE in the RPG and from the pre-launch forums I don't think it ever was. They'd rather have a more peaceful, manageable MMORPG world - essentially backstory to JtL. This way moisture farmers pay their subs to live quietly and those who want excitement will have to look for it in JtL.

Strikes, petitions

[LondonLawyer]

Interesting approach (more a boycott than a strike really). I wonder though who will really be prepared to do it if it means that when (if) they come back, they will have to start from scratch.

I agree that SOE seems to be somewhat contemptous of their subscribers and particularly of views expressed in the forums. I suspect the forums are kept on mainly as a means to allow players to let off steam rather than anything else. Are they still closed to outsiders? That always seemed a particularly cynical move by SOE. This way subscribers bitch behind closed doors and keep paying. Smart move if you know your product falls short of its hype.

I disagree that petitions aren't worth a shot. Particularly if they are backed up by arguments and a proposal for action. Maybe the best approach is a pair of petitions: one for people who are pissed off and threatening to leave, one for those pissed off but staying. Set SOE a deadline and let them watch the names rack up. Of course there will be people who sign as intending to leave but SOE won't know exactly how many. Hopefully it should help focus their minds on the issue.

Petition online is a great free service for hosting petitions like this. It doesn't seem to have a SWG petition active yet.

Re:Strikes, petitions

[EddieBurkett]

I disagree that petitions aren't worth a shot. Particularly if they are backed up by arguments and a proposal for action. Maybe the best approach is a pair of petitions: one for people who are pissed off and threatening to leave, one for those pissed off but staying.

The forums (at least the ones I check. Sony has subdivided the forum community into so many different topics it would take a full day for someone to read them all, let alone actually play the game) are full of suggestions to either 'boycott the JtL beta', or petition-like threads (there are two threads I've seen similar to your suggested petitions - one to sign if the announcement made you leave, and one to sign if you are staying.) The main problem with the forums is that only about 20% of the player base uses the forums. So any unified action there (and no one seems happy with the way the game is), is only unified as far as a 1/5 of the galaxy goes. I don't know if anyone who only plays the game would be as perturbed by the announcement, since they wouldn't have known about the original combat balance concept without having read the forums in the first place. How you can get upset that something you didn't know was coming is going to be late?

I don't think we can affect anything, because of the three items they need to work on immediately, there's no easy way to get the combat balance out post haste, as the community wants. They have to complete the Jedi update, since they've started that already, and it wouldn't be right to leave the Jedi in revamp limbo.* After that, I'm sure even the developers would agree it would be nice to get to the combat revamp, but I'm also sure that they have Sony corporate breathing down their backs to get the Expansion Pack out in October (Nov at the latest) in time for the holiday season. That means that, as they scheduled it, the earliest they could get to the balance would be the end of the year.

* Supposedly, when they 'nerfed' the Creature Handler profession at the end of last year, they did so claiming it was the beginning of the combat balance, and that everyone else would be 'nerfed' in due time. They will have been left hanging for about a year if things go as planned right now.

The problem here is that there are so many glitches with the system that have such far ranging effects on the game, that as SOE just brushed everything under the "combat balance" rug, they built up a large amount of expectations that it would 'fix' the game, from most people's perspective. It probably won't, and can't, and I think the developers are starting to realize just what a dismal situation they've created.

Really though, every online game like this needs a balance/revamp on a regular basis. Its hard enough for someone to create a truly balanced system, and given enough time, players will discover those imbalances and utilize/exploit them to develop the characters that best 'fit' that society. Somewhat like how creatures in the wild evolve to best fit their environment. But people get sick of seeing the same type of power-characters over and over again (in this case Rifleman/Combat Medics), and so the developers have to 'balance' the system. All that means is that the FotM will change. Once enough people find the new imbalances and build the subsequent characters, we'll be right back where we were. But that's why we pay $15/mo - so the devs can keep working on this (and yes, for additional content too...) Surprisingly though, this is a viable model, as the power gamers (who finished any and all the content long ago, and will work through any new content the day it is released), must keep changing their character regularly to stay current. Anyone else wasn't interested in having an *uber* character, and as such, won't be affected by the adjustments beyond the actual mechanics.

Re:The solution...STRIKE!!!

[Yerase]

Well, you can browse the forums and see that alot of people are taking you up on that. The afternoon that TH made the announcement, someone started counting "I'm quitting, who wants my stuff" posts and stopped after 1000. Supposedly over 500 have left from my server (Radiant) alone.

Wow, they keep screwing the pooch.

[JavaLord]

the long awaited patch rebalancing combat within the game has been pushed off until after the Jump to Lightspeed expansion [which just announced 13 of its 15 spaceships] launches.

The combat rebalance is probably the most important patch they could do. Even more important than the Jedi revamp they did a month or two ago because combat effects everyone Sure the old Jedi system led to crappy hologrinding, but there were plenty of people who weren't caught up in the hologrind who just wanted to play. What good is it for the Jedi now anyway when a good fencer template can still beat most of them? Combat has been borked from day one, and kostner never cared because he is so anti-PvP. Now they are going to rush out a FPS add on before fixing the game for their playerbase? They are going to tank the jump to lightspeed too. They might have attracted FPS players, if they didn't make space combat only optional. That is right folks, it's going to be like playing quake with spaceships, but you have to ASK people first if you can shoot them. DOESN'T that sounds like FUN!!!!

I really wanted SWG to be fun, I played the first few months and quit, I started playing again last april, and quit again because the Jedi Revamp looked like a clusterfuck. I was right. It just keeps getting worse. How could an idea that seemed so good (a SWG MMORPG) turn out so wrong? They've turned Star Wars into the Sims in space. Bleh.

Re:Is Vader the Community Manager?

[gonzoxl5]

For a different deal, then go play Galactic Conquest http://www.galactic-conquest.net/

Its free (if you have a copy of BF1942) and Vader isn't in it.

And its got nothing to do with SOE

And Lucasarts know about it (and even offer it for download from their website).

Its not an MMORPG but then neither is SWG by all accounts.

I'm sorry to sounds like an advert but GC is fun and I really don't think that MMORPGs are anywhere near mature enough to successfully recreate something like the star wars universe.

IMHO if they don't move away from a business model that seems reliant upon elements of perpetual licensed product, headlines and technology for competitive advantage then the MMORPG providers are doomed to fail.

The existence of JTL as a licensed product (albeit one with a continuing subscription) just servces to confirm that SOE are not confident themselves in the long term viability of an MMORPG like galaxies, if they were then they're be looking to push it out at low/no cost in order to increase their potentially far more lucrative incremental (subscription) revenue stream.

I'm convinced that the only durable business model for the MMORPG is one based around a reliance on increamental revenue, requiring a mature and comprehensive level of content creation so storytelling, immersive gameplay and an enduring high quality gaming experience will be the differentiator that keeps the subscribers coming back each month.

Otherwise, these products will never truly reach out to the 'mass market' and the only viable customer base will a combination of :

a) Powergamers (those willing to play/subscribe for ever just so they can be game 'gods')

b) New players (I bet there is a terrible conversion rate at the moment from free trial players to paying subscribers, that won't get better unless the user experience becomes the development focus)

c) The traditional RPG community (for many avid ex-D&D players a well made MMORPG is the holy grail of development, they will persevere through imbalance and unreliable connections, they will contribute innovative and often workable ideas for game development and they will remain optimistic through all but the most adverse of circumstances).

But it is possible to upset even these types of players if they endure enough frustration, delay or lack of communication, Its at this point of core player degradation that the end of a game could probably be fairly reliably predicted.

(formula anyone ?)

I'd suggest that what we're witnessing is a key moment in the continuing development of the SWG gameworld and I'd hazard a guess that if SOE fail to respect the community over this issue and lose enough of the core playerbase then SWG will most likely fail within the next 12-24 months.

All the links are down

[Anonymous Coward]

Not from /.in either. Many major threads covering this issue are now "deleted". *COUGH* COVERUP! *COUGH*