Slashdot Mirror


TiVo-Like Service Coming To Australia

rosy writes with good news for Australian television watchers: "CNET.com.au is reporting that a TiVo-like service will be available in November this year. Dubbed ICE ("Intelligent Content Engine") and developed by Peter Vogel, the technology will be built into set top boxes and personal video recorders to skip ads or lower the volume, view electronic program guides, etc. The article states that the service will cost $2-3 per week with the service launching initially in Sydney, Newcastle and Wollongong."

10 of 121 comments (clear)

  1. For the masses, maybe. by rjch · · Score: 4, Informative
    ...for those of us who read Slashdot, the question becomes "why?" I've had a PVR at home for the past four or five months, ever since I built my MythTV system with KnoppMyth.

    With some old leftover hardware and a $150 TV card, it was ridiculously easy to set up, even though a little Linux experience did help. Sure, the commercial detection is "programmed" and prone to miss commercials or (on occasion) think that the program itself is the commercial, but when it's free and includes most, if not all of what these PVR boxes will, having that "up-to-the-second" information isn't really all that vital.

    1. Re:For the masses, maybe. by B747SP · · Score: 2, Informative
      "up-to-the-second" information isn't really all that vital.

      With respect, I disagree. I too have been playing with a PVR for a few months, but I did the sums in my head (2 x PCI DVB-T tuners, big HDD, fast Pentium 4, motherboard, ram, case, tv-out card, remote control) and went for a commercial product. The Topfield (Toppy) TF5000PVRt cost me just AUD$900, and I couldn't come close to buying the abovementioned hardware for that, even before I got to thinking about the weeks/months of screwing about with an OS and software to make it all work (and probably never, ever get it working just so).

      The commercial product was a pretty easy decision for me. A quick explanation along the lines of "2 x PCI DVB-T tuners at AUD$200 each..." got the spending approval from She Who Must Be Obeyed pretty quickly too!

      Now, I love the Toppy, it works really really well. The standard 80Gb disk is just enough to keep a lot of content while still being small enough to force you to clean up once a week and not letting you accumulate gigs of content you'll never get around to watching (OK, so I'm waiting for the warranty to expire then I'm putting a 300+Gb ATA drive in there!!!). Two digital tuners on board means that you can cat two streams to disk, and watch another pre-recorded stream all at the same time.

      The real problem lies in catching content. The Toppy can synch time to the broadcast time signal from the TV stations, or it can run on your own 'manual' time setting. 'Manual' means that if you have a power failure, you don't recover too well, (until you come home and reset the clock). 'Automatic' puts you very much at the mercy of the TV stations. Toppy owners Australia wide recently suffered when one of the TV stations (allegedly ch10) put the time signal forward three weeks for a little while, then reverted to their version of 'normal'. All the Toppy boxes in the land marked the next three weeks worth or cron jobs as 'done', and didn't record anything for three weeks!

      If you set the time manually, you still get the TV stations starting content 5-10 minutes before or after the published time, so they still manage to make you miss the beginning or the end of your program (and that really sucks with something like Laura Norder or NCSI! (yup, we get all the same programming you Americans do!)). So you set the machine to record +/- 5 minutes of everything. Waste disk space, but you can ffwd through ads, etc of course, don't start watching until 20 mins after the content started, and time shift - all those wonderful things.

      Anyhoo, long story short, I'm with the ICE man (pun!). I think that the two most important things in PVR land *are* knowing when to start and stop cat'ing content to disk, and (less important, but nice) when to pause for advertisements.

      We're starting to get a lot of pay content in various forms here in Australia (presumably the stuff you Seppos have had for years, only ours can't be bypassed with two capacitors and an inductor using these nifty plans for only $9.95!). Most of it just isn't worth the ridiculous prices they're charging for it. This one though, if he's really going to sell it for $10-$12/month, is good - I'm there. If he comes up with a module that runs on my existing Toppy box (this machine does have a bit of third party freeware floating around, upload/install with usb, etc, etc), then I'm there with bells on. Best of luck to 'im!

      --
      I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
  2. Re:Lowering the volume on ads by silentbozo · · Score: 5, Informative

    One question though: how does it detect adverts?

    There are two methods that I know of. The first is to measure the sound volume - breaks for advertising often will have a pause in audio, then the actual advertising audio level will usually be higher than the programming audio. There was actually such a project (muting audio from commercials automatically) featured in an electronics magazine a number of years back - try looking up back issues of Popular Electronics.

    The second way is to measure the video signal in much the same way as you would audio. There used to be a blanking interval as the advertisments were cut into the program feed. ReplayTV relies on this, along with the MPEG scene-detection algorithms to determine when a scene starts and stops, and whether that scene is likely to be an advertisement.

    Of course, TV stations are wise to this these days. ReplayTV units often have problems detecting commercials because of the stupid station ID logo burned into the screen - this prevents the screen from going totally black, which usually signals a commercial (not always - I've had my ReplayTV mistakenly cut out a chunk of the program because there was a lightning effect). Also, TV stations have begun putting in sidebars and strips at the top and bottom for advertising and junk messages, which also spoils the commercial detection algorithm, and cross-dissolve to commercials, which eliminates a pause in either the video or audio.

    Checking the sound level seems to be the best bet, and if you can couple that with scene detection, and some sort of intelligent algorithm that figures out that the next 5 scenes are a collection of 30 sec and 1 min spots, and are likely to be commercials, that, I think is the way to go. Of course, if you want to do that, you'd probably have to buffer the programming, which then precludes you from channel surfing.

  3. Re:About time -- but will it be legal? by skribe · · Score: 4, Informative
    Well from what I recall living in Australia, its perfectly legal to record a show to watch later as long as you don't go around distributing the copy.

    Actually, that is not correct. According to this pdf document you need permission from all the copyright holders to legally copy a television show in Australia. There are exceptions (such as educational purposes) but they don't include for personal use only. This still hasn't stopped millions of VCRs (note the R for recorder) from being sold in this country. I doubt it will stop the Aussie version of the Tivo.

    For more information of Australian copyright I suggest The Australian Copyright Council.

    skribe

    --
    Blog
  4. Re:Europe by boogy+nightmare · · Score: 2, Informative

    TiVo has been to Europe, It was in the UK for sale for a couple of years but has since retracted it due to terrible sales, those that actually have still have a limited service i beleive. Then of course there is Sky+ which is a satellite box with 2 decoders, one for viewing and one for recording that works exacly the same way as TiVo but is offered by the BskyB corp.

    --
    Kingdom of Loathing (www.kingdomofloathing.com) Addicted is me
  5. Re:its a service? by carnivore302 · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's much more. You can record and watch the beginning of a movie while the movie is still on. It will learn your viewing habits and automatically record all the shows you tend to watch, for up to 140 hours. It's sort of a search engine for your TV really. Plus you can view your photo's and listen to your music on the TV via the tivo. You'll want one :-)


    Click on the Mystery Futures Link!

    --
    Please login to access my lawn
  6. Re:Lowering the volume on ads by chewy_2000 · · Score: 2, Informative
    Personally, I'd love a feature to automatically lower the volume on ads, to save me doing it manually.

    RTFA.

    Vogel showed off the majority of the ICE service's functionality at an event in Sydney this morning, including the ability to control the volume level of advertisements (dubbed "ICE Hush") automatically..

  7. Re:Im not sure if it will be a hit here.. by aussie_a · · Score: 2, Informative

    if people dont want ads, they buy pay-tv services.

    Could that be anymore clueless? 1> You still get ads on the free-to-air channels regardless of whether or not you have cable. 2> All Foxtel channels have commercials.

    Will Tivo in Australia work? I doubt it. But pay-tv is certainly NOT an alternative to get rid of commercials.

  8. Re:Smarter than a TiVo... by martinX · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm an Australian too by the way, and I find that most foreigners don't underestimate the size of Australia (it's pretty evident by looking at a globe) but are surprised by it's low population.

    I find that most foreigners don't underestimate the size of Australia, but a lot of Septics overestimate the size of the USA.

    --
    When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
  9. Re:Smarter than a TiVo... by rev063 · · Score: 2, Informative
    ... most foreigners don't underestimate the size of Australia (it's pretty evident by looking at a globe) ...
    Unfortunately, most people don't learn about other contries by looking at a globe (when was the last time you looked at one?) -- they look at a map. World maps in 2-D can be pretty misleading. Many people see the Mercator projection, which does make the US look bigger than Australia (especially if country borders are not included). Compare the difference in an equal-area projection map.