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Sun Pondering Buying Novell
Krafty Koder writes "ZDNet are reporting that Sun are considering purchasing Novell and thus gain SUSE Linux.
'With our balance sheet, we're considering all our options,' Sun chief operating officer Jonathan Schwartz said in an interview on Sunday regarding the possibility of acquiring Novell.
'What would owning the operating system on which IBM is dependent be worth? History would suggest we look to Microsoft for comparisons,' he said."
Good-bye Mono.
Am I the only person who would prefer Sun to stay out of the Linux business? I've always gotten this impression that their are a bunch of sniffling cunts who try to play catch up unfairly.
... against the continual chorus of /.-ers who
say that sun is dead. If they own a major linux distro, then surely slashdot posters cannot be all doom and gloom about this company that (a) commercialized bsd linux (b) lead innovation in all areas of computing: clustering, high availability, chip fab, OS, compilers, etc., (c) fscking invented one of the most popular computer languages ever, (d) is known for considerable charitable works, the community-oriented nature of its work force, and for being a responsible corporate citizen. Maybe, just maybe, owning a linux distro would stop the slashdot "sun is dead/dying" festival.
/. will continue to wallow in 14-year-old flame fests.
What the hell was I thinking? Of course
My guess would be that IBM might want to put in a bid of their own should push come to shove....
IBM changes to another distribution... or funnier yet beats SUN to the SUSE acquisition, or, wait for it,....lets SUN buy SUSE, then buys SUN. Caan't you just picture those IBM branded SUN blades?
Schwartz is retarded. I doubt IBM would let themselves be dependent on Sun in the same way they were dependent on Microsoft in the 80s. If Sun bought Novell to get Suse to have leverage on IBM, IBM could just switch to another distro, or roll their own, or whatever. That's the whole freaking point behind IBM moving from proprietary Unix to Linux on the server.
Or IBM could just keep on selling their hardware with SuSE and keep on developing it themselves, regardless of what Sun wants or thinks it wants. Makes no difference when it's all GPL.
.... Microsoft's hand in this? (Remember the $2b?) Probably MS has confidence - that Sun will not fall short of burying itself along with Novell, Linux and Ximian. That gets rid of the competition to Windows on the Server and desktop both. Much like what happened with Crapaq buying DEC and then HP buying both to kill the Alpha and use it's bones for Itanium - Thus paving the way for Intel to succeed in 64 bit market?! It's another story that AMD hit the right chord as far as 64bit market goes, and that too without any of this politics.
Umm.. Why nobody does not talk about Mono. Sun's biggest strenght is Java. And right now it is being under thread by Mono. So they wan't to buy Novell to get rid of Mono. If so, let's hope Mono community is as strong as Mozilla community.
I wonder if this will happen. I can't help thinking it would be an interesting move for Sun. Mono represents at least a moderate threat to Java/J2EE on non-windows platforms and is sponsored by Novell so Sun could be thinking of trying to bury that and would acquire a good corporate Linux distro in the process rather than trying to build up their own (which is not all that easy). I suspect, though, that they're trying to hold MONO back with a nice bit of FUD of their own.
/. I'm a moderate fan of the company. They've been pretty generous in terms of open source donations (Tomcat, which rocks, and Open Office, which is kind of dull but works spring to mind). I also admire them for trying to do something different where they don't feel (rightly or wrongly) that open source is an option. In the case of Java the source code is available for download, the bug parade is available for public review, and the JCP allows individuals as well as corporates to have an influence on the direction Java/J2EE heads in (and its perfectly possible to fix bugs in the Java source code and have them rolled in to the release - I know because I've done it), I find it hard to imagine IBM or Microsoft or many other proprietary vendors, being so open with their code. (ducks for cover)
Despite the regular bashing that Sun gets on
Wasn't too long ago I heard of some green handshake between two companies.
(puts on tin foil hat)
Will SuSE disappear like Corel Linux only to reappear as something new later on, or vanish completely?
It seems like whenever a certain Linux distro becomes too "well known" something happens to it.
I smell M$. Flame away, but this smells fishy.
Yeah, just like IBM isn't dependant on Sun for Java... oh wait.
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No, but Novell most likely does have the copyrights/patents that are involved with Linux. It is possible that Sun would give them to SCO since it is almost certain that SCO has no real case at this point.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
All I can say is that this will be horrible for SuSe linux. Sun has been mismanaged "everything" they touched for a while and I don't think they will improve linux in any manner.
Sun is dying a slow death and this might be their last try, which might end up taking down SuSE linux with it...
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places
... as if dragging their feet on the whole idea in the first place it seems as if Sun now want to take the rising star under its wings and smother it to death too.
... mark my word it will never happen. As we seen with Telstra Linux is used a baginning chip these days. NOVELL may well be better off by it's self. But then again I could be wrong.
I for one dont think SUN has Linux's best interest at heart. As far as I have notice so far sun seems intent on adopting only to then prove how much better their Solaris is.
Look at how many times they change their position on open sourcing Solaris
I for one think SUN is just taking a page out of the M$ play book. I simply think it should be evaluated for what it is, playing the cards.
Sun has almost no success acquiring companies. Look at the mess they made of Raq.
If they do this expect IBM to drop them real quick. This move would likely make RedHat that much more dominant.
The industry wants an "independant" Linux vendor. The industry wants an OSS equivalent to MS.
RedHat and depending on your view to a lesser effect Novell are those answers. As soon as this is tied to hardware manufacturing everything gets very muddy and proprietary creep sets in.
Could Sun's decision here be also partly based on the growing success of Novell's Mono project? Mono is an implementation of .Net, which is a threat to Java (from a developer mindshare point-of-view at least), and perhaps this would be a way for Sun to start containing that threat.
.Net flamewar, that's not the intention of this post.
Oh, and spare me the Java vs
SUNW just woke up to the fact that their deals with SCOX didn't mean anything because Novell still owns all of the collateral, including the right to tell SCOX to stifle itself.
If SUNW were to buy Novell, the thinking must go, they could reverse Novell's order telling SCOX to leave IBM alone. Instead, they could harass IBM over AIX, which is a direct competitor to SUNW's server offerings.
SUNW still doesn't see Linux as a strategic threat. Don't be fooled into thinking that our interests are what drive them.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
Man, Sun is pissing me off. They have ZERO direction. One day everything is SunONE, then everything is Java desktop.
In four quarters, my Sun Reps when from pushing Solaris Sparc, to Solaris x86, to Linux x86-32, to Linux x86-64. They have no credability. I just can't wait for them to ditch Sparc and Solaris completely. But then they'd have to compete with IBM, Dell, Redhat, and HP. OUCH! So much for high profit margins.
With their post-Java-quarrel handshakes, it may not be too much of a stretch for the conspiracy theorists to think these actions are somewhat Microsoft-related. With all that Munich stuff being covered here recently, and all.
With Redhat sort of doing its own thing, SUSE places 2nd, if I recall correctly. I wonder if it's a way to pull a Tonya Harding on the other contender just to slow adoption down a little. You know, the way MS helped SCO out a bit to try and disrupt adoption that way too. Of course as many have pointed out, Linux being Linux, support will just switch to another distro and get on with it.
Hopefully the sale doesn't happen. I'm not sure how well the folks at Ximian would enjoy working for SUN. SUN would take Java Desktop over SUSE, and Java over the mono project. That sounds like a dark cloud in the making.
er, but are they? isn't Java an open standard? and IBM already has their own Java compiler.
Except IBM could take all of the SuSE sources and make "IBM Linux" that was nothing more than a rebranded SuSE in a heartbeat. This is how Mandrake started -- as an enhanced Red Hat.
IBM could get the major vendors like BEA, SAP, Oracle and the like to certify on "IBM Linux" pretty darn quick.
Sun *still* doesn't get it.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Ideology aside .NET is likely here to stay simply because of MS's market penetration, never mind that is actually happens to be (IMHO) pretty good.
Having a non-MS implementation that allows .NET applications to run on either MS or non-MS platforms is potentially the holy grail of Linux adoption. If more and more apps Just Worked on Windows or Linux, why keep paying the MS tax? (I'm talking average user here, not people who know enough to use things like WINE)
But herein lies the problem. Platform independence was always the claim/goal of Java. One it has had mixed results in achieving. MS's dirty pool with the JRE is certainly a big reason for its less than stellar success on Windows.
Sun hates .NET. .NET could become what they wanted Java to be... IF projects like Mono are successful. So, what would they likely do? Kill it in the name of Java.
Granted Mono is GPL'd, so they couldn't kill it entirely. But taking funding away from Miguel de Icaza and his team would certainly slow its progress dramatically. I'd hate to see that.
Blockwars: free, realtime, multiplayer game similar to Tetris.
"They do not preach that their god will rouse them, a little before the Nuts work loose." Kipling, 'The Sons of Martha'
You bring up an interesting, if tangential, point. Why doesn't IBM just roll its own Linux distribution? They've already spent a fortune marketing Linux to anyone who'll listen, so they can build off of that. In addition, they have the name recognition necessary to sway PHBs switching to Linux; these same folks will be the ones paying for fat support and maintenance contracts. What would the downside be?
the coolest club on
The commercial viability of a Linux distribution as an Enterprise offering has little to do with the vendor itself. It has to do with other companies like Oracle and Rational (technically now IBM) supporting those distributions. And really the only thing that prompts those companies is the Linux vendor offering multi-year support contracts that say the versions of the software included will not change over the course of the support contract. So even though every other Linux vendor can produce just about the exact same distribution, they don't offer the support contracts that get the big software companies to port applications.
Yea, thats right... The only reason the Linux desktop even has an office suite that is business ready is because of Sun. Open Office is a key to linux being on the desktop and yet people always seem to forget who gave it to us. Not to mention they also came out with that wonderful little language known as java and fully support it on Linux. Java is going to be a key in the desktop migration, well java and .net. But being able to develop on one platform and know it will run on another without modification is an amazing thing when developing. Sun has been very nice to the OSS community and often donates large sums of money to various projects. Not to mention the whole Project Looking Glass thing. When Looking Glass is released, it will show some real competition with Longhorn and Mac on the desktop.
Regards,
Steve
Because Sun is bought and paid for by MS. It is in fact MS money that puts Sun's balance sheet in this position in the first place.
If Sun buys Novell, will Novell continue to maintain their position that the SCO Group does not own UNIX copyrights? Not if MS has anything to say about it.
If Sun buys Novell, will Novell continue to waive the license issues as the SCO group tries to bring them up? Not if MS has anything to say about it.
"that's not encryption - it's a new perl script that I'm working on..." - from some Matrix parody
You take two failing companies and put them under one incompetent and ego driven leader in Scott McNealy and it is a sure win-win! I am sure Microsoft would be happy to offer cash incentives to all parties. (feel the sarcasm)
.NET 1.1 profile which would allow them to have a closer integration with MS technologies. As a part of their new "agreement" with MS to collaborate on their enterprise technologies (.NET and J2EE) this would seem like a logic acquisition.
What I find interesting is that Sun would acquire access to the Mono implemention of the
Now if they just had a talented CEO and CTO running the show it would be quite promising. Unfortunately I do expect McNealy to allow his ego to overcome any logical choices and botch the whole venture. But who could do this? How about Miguel de Icaza (Gnome/Mono creator) as CTO, someone who has proven work ethic and the ability to make wise choices?
Brennan Stehling - http://brennan.offwhite.net/blog/
Ya know, Sun has had a staff of most excellent Linux distribution programmers and kernel hackers for 4+ years (think back ... hint: COBT). And they have a bunch of UI, usability, QA and other folks that are VERY familiar with Open Source. And yet Sun has not once come close to putting together their own Linux distro.
No, "Sun Linux" doesn't count, it was Red Hat 7.2 with new labels.
No, Java Desktop System doesn't count. It is a desktop layer that, while integrating well with SuSE 8.1, is also supposed to be coming out for Solaris and theoretically other systems (I wanna see it on Windows + CygWin!).
Why? Obvious. Sun knows they are one of the last "real Unix" workhorses. They don't want to be seen as creating a Linux distribution, they would rather pay someone else for it. Buying SuSE, or now buying Novell (UGH) would simply be an extension of paying someone else. They can niche-ify SuSE Linux, they can let Novell whither, and then go to their Solaris customers and say "look, we really didn't WANT to do this, but at least we didn't resource this thing from scratch and you can ignore it if you want."
It is a shame. Sun could engineer one HELL of a Linux distribution. I remember rumors not long ago that Solaris would become LSB compliant in Solaris X (seems to not be happening now). An LSB compliant distribution where you could swap the Solaris kernel (stability, customer ready, very scalable) with Linux (rapid development, freely supportable) and then give away the Linux distribution for a song would be like out RedHat-ing Red Hat (at least until the Fedora split).
YaST is the best part of SuSE for Sun anyway and it is open sourced now. They don't NEED to buy Novell, they just need to get off their asses and do it.
note: I think Sun is a very good Open Source member and that is why I am following this closely. I want them to get the clue so that they can continue to be a balancing force between Microsoft, IBM and Red Hat. I just dunno if they are ever going to "get it".
IBM is in the business of selling computer hardware, and service contracts. They do not consider themselves to be in the business of selling software.
IBM has no wish to try to compete with Red Hat or SuSE, especially given how much revenue those companies are making right now (i.e. not very much, by IBM standards).
IBM does have software projects -- for example, AIX. And if you look at what IBM has been doing with AIX, you see that they have been taking every cool feature of AIX and porting it to Linux. Once Linux can replace AIX, IBM will wind down the AIX project, and move the AIX staff to work on other projects.
IBM must view software as just overhead -- something they need to pay for, that enables them to sell more compters and service contracts, but not itself a profit center. If they can transition from in-house (high-overhead) software, to externally developed software, and still make as much money from hardware sales and service contracts -- that's a very easy business decision to make! All the more so when the free nature of Linux means they have no risk of becoming overly dependent on any one company.
steveha
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
It's not only about owning the Linux that IBM is using. When Novell bought SuSE, with the help of IBM, Sun's JDS didn't seem to get the SuSE support that they used to. Novell is in IBM's pocket. Sun is working on doing some neat things with JDS and is doing a good job of selling it to corporate clients. IBM isn't too happy about that and I'm sure that 50 million dollars they gave to Novell will help them keep their lap dogs in line.
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