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Northface University - Computer Science in Half the Time?
prostoalex writes "Associated Press runs a nationwide story on Northface University. The school, founded by a pair of venture capitalists and former technology chief found a niche with its highly intensive curriculum and corporate software development specialization. For example, a BSCS degree can be completed in a little over 2 years, and it comes with IBM's WebSphere and Microsoft's MCSD certification. Northface is also promoting its corporate partnerships, which allow current students to feel more secure about future employment. Grady Booch from IBM is quoted to be 'jazzed up' about the program, although there are many who oppose such approaches to college education."
Half the time
Half the money
Half the college experience.
So? Is it accredited? I got a BSCS plus math and a thorough liberal arts education in 6 semesters. I'll be impressed when they teach you something other than another fad technology. As too many people here know: a degree is not only not everything, but it's hardly anything in this field.
So essentially this turns the CS degree into a trade skill like pumbing or electrician. Not that that is bad. My biggest concern about their technical skills would be if they had a sufficient math background -- IMHO no enough CS grads know or appreciate enough real math.
On another note though, even a general understanding of history, politics, and a host of other subjects one meets in a more "liberal" education is very important and often lacking amongst the general population.
Who said Freedom was Fair?
i think with the right students liberal arts is not needed at university level. after all you forget that stuff after graduating that is if you haven't by graduation day.
brains are going to boil in that program. thats for surer
I went to a 4 year university and learned NOTHING. Not a single skill that can get me a job. All i learned was computer theory. If this had been available i would have jumped on it 4 years ago. Every job i interview with rejects me because i lack experience. The 4 year university's are just a machine to extort money from you.
Agreed. My undergrad senior year in a 4 year program included really cool classes like AI, Compilers, and Cryptology.
No "business minded" person would think those classes would give a good return of investment - not as much as teaching them Visual Basic or Websphere. Therefore, probably trimmed out of the ciriculum to stuff it into 2 years and took all the fun out of CS.
And I'm sure no established graduate school would accept a graduate from this program without more accredited classroom contact.
(CS PhD's need not worry!)
Personally i'm sick of university, i was sick of it after the first year and I wish it was over.
Maybe the reason why many employers are requiring 4 year degress in the IT field is to see if you have what it takes to work through the boring stuff. If you are sick of school after only one year, how would you last 30+ years in the work force?
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
Unless, of course, you ask one of these little script kiddies / perl hackers on slashdot to define computer science. But I digress...
This may seem a bit harsh, but I think that these types of programs are one of the major reasons that the CS profession is advancing so slowly. There's tons of exciting research going on, but what do most people in this field spend their days doing? Sitting in front of a keyboard, typing. It doesn't get any more primitive than that. To top it off, it's not because we don't HAVE the capability to do it any other way - we do - but because people don't know since they think that computer science == programming, end of story.
I think there needs to be a stronger distinction of exactly what defines our field, similar to the distinctions made in some engineering fields (for example, the difference between a degree in EE and a degree in EET).
Finally, as an example of real CS work in action, check out this artical from the January issue of Computer magazine: http://www.computer.org/computer/homepage/0104/Reg an/
So you think taking a lot of math will make you a better software developer? You likely had NO real world experience in the field before you graduated; Northface students do! Northface students learn architecture very much in-depth. You do not need every math to be a great software architect.
How many software architecture courses did you take? Data modeling?
Vocational training and vendor certifications are great. But they aren't computer science.
There are trade schools who offer "degrees" in "Electronics Engineering Technology" and "Computer Technology" where, as far as I can tell, you learn to fix VCRs and install Exchange Server 2000.
Obviously this is beyond that level, but it's still vocational training.
OTOH, industry always needs a greater number of schleps than creative thinkers, and the American educational system has been morphing to suit industry's needs for a hundred years. The average CS grad is no great shakes. This school just formalizes and rationalizes the production of average CS grads. They won't be be any less competent than the others.
It's an interesting response to outsourcing: lower the standards of education so we can home-grow more workers.
Well many of you said that during university years there's a lot of crap, and that peeps don't go to univ. to learn... and I could continue.
Thing is, there are some of us who do. I mean after 4-5 years of univ. time (for me it was 2 degrees - partially - in parallel, done in 7 years) you just prove one thing: you can keep up, can do your thing and still be able to concentrate on other matters that don't precisely relate to your major(s). That you can learn new things quickly and adapt to new challenges and requirements.
And on that I don't just mean learning a new programming language, but the ability to quickly familiarize yourself to new systems, concepts, designs and ideas. One can get a way of thinking and attitude that can't be picked up in 2 years of coders' crash-course.
And besides, it's not always the things you pick up on lectures that prove to be themost important, sometimes it's what you pick up between them. That also needs time (which 2 years can't possibly provide).
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
Since I graduated in 1995, tuition at the University of Iowa has tripled. It has done so because the school has locked itself into a number of expensive construction projects and is not able to reduce its cash flow needs to match the decreasing state revenue.
From what I can tell, the quality of instruction has not tripled since my graduation. Even moreso, students that I have advised to pursue Oracle DBA certification as technical electives have been repeatedly refused, even though the university listed Oracle certification as for-credit courses.
The CS departments of most universities have been bought off by Microsoft to the extent that they already spend over a year teaching Visual Basic. They do not use open tools, and their administrative structure reflects this close-minded and obsolete path.
IMHO, State Universities are run in a cartel system that has seen its fair share of waste and corruption. Any ideas for a system that could effectively compete with the public university cartel would be welcome indeed.
Everyone has been talking about how this is going to lack diversity, but there's another important point to be made here.
I'm a senior Computer Science major at a top-tier liberal arts institution, and have been through almost all of the major, and a lot of other courses in the process of completing my degree. Here's my main comment- I'm getting the broad-based knowledge that I consider to be extremely useful in terms of general employment, but what's notable is what I DON'T have as a result of this education. The ability to program well enough to get a job doing it.
A four-year CS major doesn't necessarily mean you know ANYTHING about proper programming practice, systems organization, or anything even remotely related to the workings of a computer. Virtually all of my knowledge of these things comes from my own efforts either before college or independant of anything curriculum-related.
Hell, most of the CS majors can't even fix their own computers, much less write software that won't break someone else's.
The issue, then, isn't with a shorter or longer curriculum, but with the individual programs... Certification doesn't seem to mean much, as far as I can tell.
What these big companies are getting is trained workers with skills they need, and they don't pay a dime for it. All the risk is on the student, because if they are the 301st member of the class and only 300 of the class gets hired, the student is out of $60k and with a Computer Science degree (although it sounds more like Software Developer degree, more technical than scientific). IE he has all the technical skills, but no personal skills and will have hard time rising into management.
TANSTAAFL
With the focus on trendy skills and certification you are basically getting a highly "outsourceable" degree. Ignoring the basics of learning and the "softer" skills will keep you in a small replaceable tech box and basically doom (not DOOM 3, MyDoom, etc.) your career. When are they going to hire Sally Struthers as a spokeswoman? Maybe they can hire Carly Fiorina in her place?
The difficulty with this program's goals is that they are incorrectly equating the skills needed for a computer science degree with what the CURRENT job market needs are that can be satisfied with a CS degree. A college education educates. A trade school trains. This is a trade school pretending to give a BS CS diploma. I'm sure they could never get an ABET accedited Computer Engineering degree out of this nonsense.
Might as well just STUDY Latin, because in ten years, more people will be using Latin than anything you'll be certified in today.
No need to care. If the trend that may be observed here (de) continues, she/he will be too old no matter what the degree looked like. Current standard-barrier is age 35.
CC.
TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
Because then you haven't gone to college. The Bachelors Degree isn't the reason to go to college, although it does get you breaks on your car insurance, and your mother's guilt trips. Becoming an adult in a college community has intrinsic rewards, lessons of its own. And merely sharing that experience with so many other people pursuing success helps you relate to them, and work with them. To say nothing of the benefits of expanding your mind outside your industry, learning about the mindsets of people you'd otherwise never meet, or probably understand. And there's dorm dating, and keg parties. There's no subsitute for those.
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make install -not war